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Eh, I don't care all that much till it turns into a client PBE patch. Things have accidentally gone out on AIR PBE before.
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United States23745 Posts
On July 16 2013 10:41 Gahlo wrote:
Eh, I don't care all that much till it turns into a client PBE patch. Things have accidentally gone out on AIR PBE before.
Like those Viktor augments.
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On July 16 2013 10:28 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 10:23 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 10:12 Amui wrote:On July 16 2013 09:56 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 09:48 TheYango wrote:On July 16 2013 09:44 Amarok wrote:
Personally I don't mind most of the changes. It means laners need to make more choices in terms of defenses because there is less passive defense provided by Bulwark. The locket/aegis combo is a more achievable item for a support which frees up the build paths of junglers (which in turn allows for more options at champ select for junglers and laners).
I'm actually surprised there's that much of an uproar about it. There's still no compelling reason to wait for a support to have 2700 gold before you have Locket when you could have it way earlier on a jungler or top laner. No, but it's still more achievable for the jungler as well which will largely have the same effect of increasing options. With less passive gain provided by the item and more MR options (including budget ones) it becomes less vital to complete asap. I saw supports getting Bulwark in solo Q as it was. If Locket isn't as vital a mid game item it can be the item that the support works towards. Emblem is amazing in the laning phase, Aegis has a relatively smooth build path and the Locket active is at its most effective post 15-20 mins anyway. If you've watched competitive games recently, a rich support has maybe a kindlegem boots oracles, a ruby sightstone, and a stack of pinks. A poor one would be walking around with boots oracles normal sightstone and a couple of greens 30 minutes in. The poor support has about 900g of non-consumable stats. I don't think this trend will change either without a really cost efficient, poor slot efficiency item coming out in the sub 1500 price range(active AoE HP/mana restore, 1/2 second single target invuln, soulshroud passive etc) The most efficient support stats are HP and CDR. HP because they're too poor to buy both types of resist, and have low HP too because of level. CDR helps the support put out more spells = more support. I have seen supports getting Bulwark in pro games (VES vs Curse IIRC) and Locket is taken on supports at pro level semi-frequently. Pro games haven't been played on the ward gold sharing patch either. I take your point though. OGNLoL is all about Supports being the ward bitch. It's very rare to see a support pick up any real items.
ftfy.
Aside from Season 1; supports have always been ward bitches; it was a miracle for supports to get more than a shurelya's in season 2; season 3 has been even more problematic.
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United States23745 Posts
On July 16 2013 10:48 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 10:28 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:23 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 10:12 Amui wrote:On July 16 2013 09:56 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 09:48 TheYango wrote:On July 16 2013 09:44 Amarok wrote:
Personally I don't mind most of the changes. It means laners need to make more choices in terms of defenses because there is less passive defense provided by Bulwark. The locket/aegis combo is a more achievable item for a support which frees up the build paths of junglers (which in turn allows for more options at champ select for junglers and laners).
I'm actually surprised there's that much of an uproar about it. There's still no compelling reason to wait for a support to have 2700 gold before you have Locket when you could have it way earlier on a jungler or top laner. No, but it's still more achievable for the jungler as well which will largely have the same effect of increasing options. With less passive gain provided by the item and more MR options (including budget ones) it becomes less vital to complete asap. I saw supports getting Bulwark in solo Q as it was. If Locket isn't as vital a mid game item it can be the item that the support works towards. Emblem is amazing in the laning phase, Aegis has a relatively smooth build path and the Locket active is at its most effective post 15-20 mins anyway. If you've watched competitive games recently, a rich support has maybe a kindlegem boots oracles, a ruby sightstone, and a stack of pinks. A poor one would be walking around with boots oracles normal sightstone and a couple of greens 30 minutes in. The poor support has about 900g of non-consumable stats. I don't think this trend will change either without a really cost efficient, poor slot efficiency item coming out in the sub 1500 price range(active AoE HP/mana restore, 1/2 second single target invuln, soulshroud passive etc) The most efficient support stats are HP and CDR. HP because they're too poor to buy both types of resist, and have low HP too because of level. CDR helps the support put out more spells = more support. I have seen supports getting Bulwark in pro games (VES vs Curse IIRC) and Locket is taken on supports at pro level semi-frequently. Pro games haven't been played on the ward gold sharing patch either. I take your point though. OGNLoL is all about Supports being the ward bitch. It's very rare to see a support pick up any real items. ftfy. Aside from Season 1; supports have always been ward bitches; it was a miracle for supports to get more than a shurelya's in season 2; season 3 has been even more problematic.
I was just making a point that sometimes NA Supports will pick up a bigger item, in OGN it almost never happens. I'd have to go back and watch old Vods, but I feel like this is the worst it's been for supports in competitive play in terms of buying no items.
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Just want to point out that the Oracles and Ward kill changes haven't been in effect and will effect the income of supports more than anyone.
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On July 16 2013 10:51 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 10:48 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:28 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:23 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 10:12 Amui wrote:On July 16 2013 09:56 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 09:48 TheYango wrote:On July 16 2013 09:44 Amarok wrote:
Personally I don't mind most of the changes. It means laners need to make more choices in terms of defenses because there is less passive defense provided by Bulwark. The locket/aegis combo is a more achievable item for a support which frees up the build paths of junglers (which in turn allows for more options at champ select for junglers and laners).
I'm actually surprised there's that much of an uproar about it. There's still no compelling reason to wait for a support to have 2700 gold before you have Locket when you could have it way earlier on a jungler or top laner. No, but it's still more achievable for the jungler as well which will largely have the same effect of increasing options. With less passive gain provided by the item and more MR options (including budget ones) it becomes less vital to complete asap. I saw supports getting Bulwark in solo Q as it was. If Locket isn't as vital a mid game item it can be the item that the support works towards. Emblem is amazing in the laning phase, Aegis has a relatively smooth build path and the Locket active is at its most effective post 15-20 mins anyway. If you've watched competitive games recently, a rich support has maybe a kindlegem boots oracles, a ruby sightstone, and a stack of pinks. A poor one would be walking around with boots oracles normal sightstone and a couple of greens 30 minutes in. The poor support has about 900g of non-consumable stats. I don't think this trend will change either without a really cost efficient, poor slot efficiency item coming out in the sub 1500 price range(active AoE HP/mana restore, 1/2 second single target invuln, soulshroud passive etc) The most efficient support stats are HP and CDR. HP because they're too poor to buy both types of resist, and have low HP too because of level. CDR helps the support put out more spells = more support. I have seen supports getting Bulwark in pro games (VES vs Curse IIRC) and Locket is taken on supports at pro level semi-frequently. Pro games haven't been played on the ward gold sharing patch either. I take your point though. OGNLoL is all about Supports being the ward bitch. It's very rare to see a support pick up any real items. ftfy. Aside from Season 1; supports have always been ward bitches; it was a miracle for supports to get more than a shurelya's in season 2; season 3 has been even more problematic. I was just making a point that sometimes NA Supports will pick up a bigger item, in OGN it almost never happens. I'd have to go back and watch old Vods, but I feel like this is the worst it's been for supports in competitive play in terms of buying no items.
Which is really telling how big the issue is when it's gotten WORSE even with sightstone being in the game.
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On July 16 2013 10:51 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 10:48 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:28 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:23 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 10:12 Amui wrote:On July 16 2013 09:56 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 09:48 TheYango wrote:On July 16 2013 09:44 Amarok wrote:
Personally I don't mind most of the changes. It means laners need to make more choices in terms of defenses because there is less passive defense provided by Bulwark. The locket/aegis combo is a more achievable item for a support which frees up the build paths of junglers (which in turn allows for more options at champ select for junglers and laners).
I'm actually surprised there's that much of an uproar about it. There's still no compelling reason to wait for a support to have 2700 gold before you have Locket when you could have it way earlier on a jungler or top laner. No, but it's still more achievable for the jungler as well which will largely have the same effect of increasing options. With less passive gain provided by the item and more MR options (including budget ones) it becomes less vital to complete asap. I saw supports getting Bulwark in solo Q as it was. If Locket isn't as vital a mid game item it can be the item that the support works towards. Emblem is amazing in the laning phase, Aegis has a relatively smooth build path and the Locket active is at its most effective post 15-20 mins anyway. If you've watched competitive games recently, a rich support has maybe a kindlegem boots oracles, a ruby sightstone, and a stack of pinks. A poor one would be walking around with boots oracles normal sightstone and a couple of greens 30 minutes in. The poor support has about 900g of non-consumable stats. I don't think this trend will change either without a really cost efficient, poor slot efficiency item coming out in the sub 1500 price range(active AoE HP/mana restore, 1/2 second single target invuln, soulshroud passive etc) The most efficient support stats are HP and CDR. HP because they're too poor to buy both types of resist, and have low HP too because of level. CDR helps the support put out more spells = more support. I have seen supports getting Bulwark in pro games (VES vs Curse IIRC) and Locket is taken on supports at pro level semi-frequently. Pro games haven't been played on the ward gold sharing patch either. I take your point though. OGNLoL is all about Supports being the ward bitch. It's very rare to see a support pick up any real items. ftfy. Aside from Season 1; supports have always been ward bitches; it was a miracle for supports to get more than a shurelya's in season 2; season 3 has been even more problematic. I was just making a point that sometimes NA Supports will pick up a bigger item, in OGN it almost never happens. I'd have to go back and watch old Vods, but I feel like this is the worst it's been for supports in competitive play in terms of buying no items.
I think it has to do with how long games go; and how kills are allocated; than it really has to do with NA supports buying items instead of wards.
Also; don't know if anyone brought this up yet; but 3.9 has had some serious assist allocation bugs. My friend didn't get an assist despite using BotRK on the target. This happened multiple times.
I'm also pretty irked that though jungle has been drastically changed to have more gold, it's pretty much turned into season 2 jungle on steroids; instead of gp10 tank jungles; its just turned into tank-fest.
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is the item set still client sided
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United States23745 Posts
On July 16 2013 10:52 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 10:51 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:48 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:28 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:23 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 10:12 Amui wrote:On July 16 2013 09:56 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 09:48 TheYango wrote:On July 16 2013 09:44 Amarok wrote:
Personally I don't mind most of the changes. It means laners need to make more choices in terms of defenses because there is less passive defense provided by Bulwark. The locket/aegis combo is a more achievable item for a support which frees up the build paths of junglers (which in turn allows for more options at champ select for junglers and laners).
I'm actually surprised there's that much of an uproar about it. There's still no compelling reason to wait for a support to have 2700 gold before you have Locket when you could have it way earlier on a jungler or top laner. No, but it's still more achievable for the jungler as well which will largely have the same effect of increasing options. With less passive gain provided by the item and more MR options (including budget ones) it becomes less vital to complete asap. I saw supports getting Bulwark in solo Q as it was. If Locket isn't as vital a mid game item it can be the item that the support works towards. Emblem is amazing in the laning phase, Aegis has a relatively smooth build path and the Locket active is at its most effective post 15-20 mins anyway. If you've watched competitive games recently, a rich support has maybe a kindlegem boots oracles, a ruby sightstone, and a stack of pinks. A poor one would be walking around with boots oracles normal sightstone and a couple of greens 30 minutes in. The poor support has about 900g of non-consumable stats. I don't think this trend will change either without a really cost efficient, poor slot efficiency item coming out in the sub 1500 price range(active AoE HP/mana restore, 1/2 second single target invuln, soulshroud passive etc) The most efficient support stats are HP and CDR. HP because they're too poor to buy both types of resist, and have low HP too because of level. CDR helps the support put out more spells = more support. I have seen supports getting Bulwark in pro games (VES vs Curse IIRC) and Locket is taken on supports at pro level semi-frequently. Pro games haven't been played on the ward gold sharing patch either. I take your point though. OGNLoL is all about Supports being the ward bitch. It's very rare to see a support pick up any real items. ftfy. Aside from Season 1; supports have always been ward bitches; it was a miracle for supports to get more than a shurelya's in season 2; season 3 has been even more problematic. I was just making a point that sometimes NA Supports will pick up a bigger item, in OGN it almost never happens. I'd have to go back and watch old Vods, but I feel like this is the worst it's been for supports in competitive play in terms of buying no items. I think it has to do with how long games go; and how kills are allocated; than it really has to do with NA supports buying items instead of wards. Also; don't know if anyone brought this up yet; but 3.9 has had some serious assist allocation bugs. My friend didn't get an assist despite using BotRK on the target. This happened multiple times. I'm also pretty irked that though jungle has been drastically changed to have more gold, it's pretty much turned into season 2 jungle on steroids; instead of gp10 tank jungles; its just turned into tank-fest.
I still prefer that over the GP10 fest. Who cares if the Jungler builds tanky? That's just the way the position has developed. Not every role has to do damage.
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On July 16 2013 11:00 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 10:52 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:51 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:48 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:28 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:23 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 10:12 Amui wrote:On July 16 2013 09:56 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 09:48 TheYango wrote:On July 16 2013 09:44 Amarok wrote:
Personally I don't mind most of the changes. It means laners need to make more choices in terms of defenses because there is less passive defense provided by Bulwark. The locket/aegis combo is a more achievable item for a support which frees up the build paths of junglers (which in turn allows for more options at champ select for junglers and laners).
I'm actually surprised there's that much of an uproar about it. There's still no compelling reason to wait for a support to have 2700 gold before you have Locket when you could have it way earlier on a jungler or top laner. No, but it's still more achievable for the jungler as well which will largely have the same effect of increasing options. With less passive gain provided by the item and more MR options (including budget ones) it becomes less vital to complete asap. I saw supports getting Bulwark in solo Q as it was. If Locket isn't as vital a mid game item it can be the item that the support works towards. Emblem is amazing in the laning phase, Aegis has a relatively smooth build path and the Locket active is at its most effective post 15-20 mins anyway. If you've watched competitive games recently, a rich support has maybe a kindlegem boots oracles, a ruby sightstone, and a stack of pinks. A poor one would be walking around with boots oracles normal sightstone and a couple of greens 30 minutes in. The poor support has about 900g of non-consumable stats. I don't think this trend will change either without a really cost efficient, poor slot efficiency item coming out in the sub 1500 price range(active AoE HP/mana restore, 1/2 second single target invuln, soulshroud passive etc) The most efficient support stats are HP and CDR. HP because they're too poor to buy both types of resist, and have low HP too because of level. CDR helps the support put out more spells = more support. I have seen supports getting Bulwark in pro games (VES vs Curse IIRC) and Locket is taken on supports at pro level semi-frequently. Pro games haven't been played on the ward gold sharing patch either. I take your point though. OGNLoL is all about Supports being the ward bitch. It's very rare to see a support pick up any real items. ftfy. Aside from Season 1; supports have always been ward bitches; it was a miracle for supports to get more than a shurelya's in season 2; season 3 has been even more problematic. I was just making a point that sometimes NA Supports will pick up a bigger item, in OGN it almost never happens. I'd have to go back and watch old Vods, but I feel like this is the worst it's been for supports in competitive play in terms of buying no items. I think it has to do with how long games go; and how kills are allocated; than it really has to do with NA supports buying items instead of wards. Also; don't know if anyone brought this up yet; but 3.9 has had some serious assist allocation bugs. My friend didn't get an assist despite using BotRK on the target. This happened multiple times. I'm also pretty irked that though jungle has been drastically changed to have more gold, it's pretty much turned into season 2 jungle on steroids; instead of gp10 tank jungles; its just turned into tank-fest. I still prefer that over the GP10 fest. Who cares if the Jungler builds tanky? That's just the way the position has developed. Not every role has to do damage.
Don't you find it wildly boring that every opening item is almost always spirit of ancient golem now?
Almost always followed up by Aegis or Locket. Even ADC's have more item variety/build variety than that now; and that's saying something.
I would love to see tiamat become a viable jungle opening; it'd open up a lot of opportunities for junglers.
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The reason it's turned into a "tank fest" is because it's the position most suited towards building the overpowered team support items, which just happen to be tanky. That and the fact the strongest jungle item is the tanky one (by some distance).
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Also building tanky is just cheaper than building damage.
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United States23745 Posts
On July 16 2013 11:04 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 11:00 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:52 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:51 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:48 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:28 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:23 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 10:12 Amui wrote:On July 16 2013 09:56 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 09:48 TheYango wrote:
[quote]
There's still no compelling reason to wait for a support to have 2700 gold before you have Locket when you could have it way earlier on a jungler or top laner. No, but it's still more achievable for the jungler as well which will largely have the same effect of increasing options. With less passive gain provided by the item and more MR options (including budget ones) it becomes less vital to complete asap. I saw supports getting Bulwark in solo Q as it was. If Locket isn't as vital a mid game item it can be the item that the support works towards. Emblem is amazing in the laning phase, Aegis has a relatively smooth build path and the Locket active is at its most effective post 15-20 mins anyway. If you've watched competitive games recently, a rich support has maybe a kindlegem boots oracles, a ruby sightstone, and a stack of pinks. A poor one would be walking around with boots oracles normal sightstone and a couple of greens 30 minutes in. The poor support has about 900g of non-consumable stats. I don't think this trend will change either without a really cost efficient, poor slot efficiency item coming out in the sub 1500 price range(active AoE HP/mana restore, 1/2 second single target invuln, soulshroud passive etc) The most efficient support stats are HP and CDR. HP because they're too poor to buy both types of resist, and have low HP too because of level. CDR helps the support put out more spells = more support. I have seen supports getting Bulwark in pro games (VES vs Curse IIRC) and Locket is taken on supports at pro level semi-frequently. Pro games haven't been played on the ward gold sharing patch either. I take your point though. OGNLoL is all about Supports being the ward bitch. It's very rare to see a support pick up any real items. ftfy. Aside from Season 1; supports have always been ward bitches; it was a miracle for supports to get more than a shurelya's in season 2; season 3 has been even more problematic. I was just making a point that sometimes NA Supports will pick up a bigger item, in OGN it almost never happens. I'd have to go back and watch old Vods, but I feel like this is the worst it's been for supports in competitive play in terms of buying no items. I think it has to do with how long games go; and how kills are allocated; than it really has to do with NA supports buying items instead of wards. Also; don't know if anyone brought this up yet; but 3.9 has had some serious assist allocation bugs. My friend didn't get an assist despite using BotRK on the target. This happened multiple times. I'm also pretty irked that though jungle has been drastically changed to have more gold, it's pretty much turned into season 2 jungle on steroids; instead of gp10 tank jungles; its just turned into tank-fest. I still prefer that over the GP10 fest. Who cares if the Jungler builds tanky? That's just the way the position has developed. Not every role has to do damage. Don't you find it wildly boring that every opening item is almost always spirit of ancient golem now? Almost always followed up by Aegis or Locket. Even ADC's have more item variety/build variety than that now; and that's saying something. I would love to see tiamat become a viable jungle opening; it'd open up a lot of opportunities for junglers.
I agree there's some issues with build diversity, but that's more of an issue with the items than the role itself. Good thing they are getting rid of Bulwark hue.
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On July 16 2013 11:09 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 11:04 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 11:00 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:52 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:51 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:48 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:28 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:23 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 10:12 Amui wrote:On July 16 2013 09:56 Amarok wrote:
[quote]
No, but it's still more achievable for the jungler as well which will largely have the same effect of increasing options. With less passive gain provided by the item and more MR options (including budget ones) it becomes less vital to complete asap.
I saw supports getting Bulwark in solo Q as it was. If Locket isn't as vital a mid game item it can be the item that the support works towards. Emblem is amazing in the laning phase, Aegis has a relatively smooth build path and the Locket active is at its most effective post 15-20 mins anyway. If you've watched competitive games recently, a rich support has maybe a kindlegem boots oracles, a ruby sightstone, and a stack of pinks. A poor one would be walking around with boots oracles normal sightstone and a couple of greens 30 minutes in. The poor support has about 900g of non-consumable stats. I don't think this trend will change either without a really cost efficient, poor slot efficiency item coming out in the sub 1500 price range(active AoE HP/mana restore, 1/2 second single target invuln, soulshroud passive etc) The most efficient support stats are HP and CDR. HP because they're too poor to buy both types of resist, and have low HP too because of level. CDR helps the support put out more spells = more support. I have seen supports getting Bulwark in pro games (VES vs Curse IIRC) and Locket is taken on supports at pro level semi-frequently. Pro games haven't been played on the ward gold sharing patch either. I take your point though. OGNLoL is all about Supports being the ward bitch. It's very rare to see a support pick up any real items. ftfy. Aside from Season 1; supports have always been ward bitches; it was a miracle for supports to get more than a shurelya's in season 2; season 3 has been even more problematic. I was just making a point that sometimes NA Supports will pick up a bigger item, in OGN it almost never happens. I'd have to go back and watch old Vods, but I feel like this is the worst it's been for supports in competitive play in terms of buying no items. I think it has to do with how long games go; and how kills are allocated; than it really has to do with NA supports buying items instead of wards. Also; don't know if anyone brought this up yet; but 3.9 has had some serious assist allocation bugs. My friend didn't get an assist despite using BotRK on the target. This happened multiple times. I'm also pretty irked that though jungle has been drastically changed to have more gold, it's pretty much turned into season 2 jungle on steroids; instead of gp10 tank jungles; its just turned into tank-fest. I still prefer that over the GP10 fest. Who cares if the Jungler builds tanky? That's just the way the position has developed. Not every role has to do damage. Don't you find it wildly boring that every opening item is almost always spirit of ancient golem now? Almost always followed up by Aegis or Locket. Even ADC's have more item variety/build variety than that now; and that's saying something. I would love to see tiamat become a viable jungle opening; it'd open up a lot of opportunities for junglers. I agree there's some issues with build diversity, but that's more of an issue with the items than the role itself. Good thing they are getting rid of Bulwark hue.
Aegis still going to be top buy; just look at end of S2.
On July 16 2013 11:08 nafta wrote:
Also building tanky is just cheaper than building damage.
I think it mostly has to do with how shitty the other damage buys are right now for junglers; than just "damage is more expensive than tankiness".
Lets look at what are available builds for junglers.
Machete start is almost always mandatory (unless ya'll wanna try my fort pot start; which i think has potential).
So where do you go with machete? well wrigs and madreds is complete shit.
So you're forced to build spirit stone; now out of these choices, which ones offer offensive capabilities? Well Wraith one is useless if you're AD; and SotEL got nerfed to shit; Now what? Golems is the only choice left.
Even with Elise; Golems is better choice over Wraiths (if you're even or behind), because of her solid base %hp damage; so she's not really obligated to build AP; or offensive choices.
Now that you got golems; you've pretty much gone so far down the defensive side of things that you're probably going to miss any possible offensive timings with any offensive items; so now you're stuck in building full tank for the rest of the game.
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With no Bulwark, all these Vlads are gonna start coming in droves o.o
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On July 16 2013 11:12 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
With no Bulwark, all these Vlads are gonna start coming in droves o.o
Visage, Veil and Cowl might have something to say about that.
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On July 16 2013 11:00 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 10:52 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:51 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:48 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:28 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:23 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 10:12 Amui wrote:On July 16 2013 09:56 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 09:48 TheYango wrote:On July 16 2013 09:44 Amarok wrote:
Personally I don't mind most of the changes. It means laners need to make more choices in terms of defenses because there is less passive defense provided by Bulwark. The locket/aegis combo is a more achievable item for a support which frees up the build paths of junglers (which in turn allows for more options at champ select for junglers and laners).
I'm actually surprised there's that much of an uproar about it. There's still no compelling reason to wait for a support to have 2700 gold before you have Locket when you could have it way earlier on a jungler or top laner. No, but it's still more achievable for the jungler as well which will largely have the same effect of increasing options. With less passive gain provided by the item and more MR options (including budget ones) it becomes less vital to complete asap. I saw supports getting Bulwark in solo Q as it was. If Locket isn't as vital a mid game item it can be the item that the support works towards. Emblem is amazing in the laning phase, Aegis has a relatively smooth build path and the Locket active is at its most effective post 15-20 mins anyway. If you've watched competitive games recently, a rich support has maybe a kindlegem boots oracles, a ruby sightstone, and a stack of pinks. A poor one would be walking around with boots oracles normal sightstone and a couple of greens 30 minutes in. The poor support has about 900g of non-consumable stats. I don't think this trend will change either without a really cost efficient, poor slot efficiency item coming out in the sub 1500 price range(active AoE HP/mana restore, 1/2 second single target invuln, soulshroud passive etc) The most efficient support stats are HP and CDR. HP because they're too poor to buy both types of resist, and have low HP too because of level. CDR helps the support put out more spells = more support. I have seen supports getting Bulwark in pro games (VES vs Curse IIRC) and Locket is taken on supports at pro level semi-frequently. Pro games haven't been played on the ward gold sharing patch either. I take your point though. OGNLoL is all about Supports being the ward bitch. It's very rare to see a support pick up any real items. ftfy. Aside from Season 1; supports have always been ward bitches; it was a miracle for supports to get more than a shurelya's in season 2; season 3 has been even more problematic. I was just making a point that sometimes NA Supports will pick up a bigger item, in OGN it almost never happens. I'd have to go back and watch old Vods, but I feel like this is the worst it's been for supports in competitive play in terms of buying no items. I think it has to do with how long games go; and how kills are allocated; than it really has to do with NA supports buying items instead of wards. Also; don't know if anyone brought this up yet; but 3.9 has had some serious assist allocation bugs. My friend didn't get an assist despite using BotRK on the target. This happened multiple times. I'm also pretty irked that though jungle has been drastically changed to have more gold, it's pretty much turned into season 2 jungle on steroids; instead of gp10 tank jungles; its just turned into tank-fest. I still prefer that over the GP10 fest. Who cares if the Jungler builds tanky? That's just the way the position has developed. Not every role has to do damage.
theres really no difference between philo hog and spirit stone ruby crystal aside from gp10 factor which really made a small difference (maybe what 600 gold in an average game?)
like gp10s are so fucking overrated gp10 tanks vs season 3 jungler tanks who get more gold from jungle so it makes it even and they build whatever the most cost efficient items are then (aegis shurelya randuin vs spirit of the ancient golem locket aegis)
the jungler role really hasnt changed at all in 3 seasons of terms of the pick types (thought champ pools have changed all the time)
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On July 16 2013 10:52 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 10:51 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:48 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:28 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:23 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 10:12 Amui wrote:On July 16 2013 09:56 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 09:48 TheYango wrote:On July 16 2013 09:44 Amarok wrote:
Personally I don't mind most of the changes. It means laners need to make more choices in terms of defenses because there is less passive defense provided by Bulwark. The locket/aegis combo is a more achievable item for a support which frees up the build paths of junglers (which in turn allows for more options at champ select for junglers and laners).
I'm actually surprised there's that much of an uproar about it. There's still no compelling reason to wait for a support to have 2700 gold before you have Locket when you could have it way earlier on a jungler or top laner. No, but it's still more achievable for the jungler as well which will largely have the same effect of increasing options. With less passive gain provided by the item and more MR options (including budget ones) it becomes less vital to complete asap. I saw supports getting Bulwark in solo Q as it was. If Locket isn't as vital a mid game item it can be the item that the support works towards. Emblem is amazing in the laning phase, Aegis has a relatively smooth build path and the Locket active is at its most effective post 15-20 mins anyway. If you've watched competitive games recently, a rich support has maybe a kindlegem boots oracles, a ruby sightstone, and a stack of pinks. A poor one would be walking around with boots oracles normal sightstone and a couple of greens 30 minutes in. The poor support has about 900g of non-consumable stats. I don't think this trend will change either without a really cost efficient, poor slot efficiency item coming out in the sub 1500 price range(active AoE HP/mana restore, 1/2 second single target invuln, soulshroud passive etc) The most efficient support stats are HP and CDR. HP because they're too poor to buy both types of resist, and have low HP too because of level. CDR helps the support put out more spells = more support. I have seen supports getting Bulwark in pro games (VES vs Curse IIRC) and Locket is taken on supports at pro level semi-frequently. Pro games haven't been played on the ward gold sharing patch either. I take your point though. OGNLoL is all about Supports being the ward bitch. It's very rare to see a support pick up any real items. ftfy. Aside from Season 1; supports have always been ward bitches; it was a miracle for supports to get more than a shurelya's in season 2; season 3 has been even more problematic. I was just making a point that sometimes NA Supports will pick up a bigger item, in OGN it almost never happens. I'd have to go back and watch old Vods, but I feel like this is the worst it's been for supports in competitive play in terms of buying no items. I think it has to do with how long games go; and how kills are allocated; than it really has to do with NA supports buying items instead of wards. Also; don't know if anyone brought this up yet; but 3.9 has had some serious assist allocation bugs. My friend didn't get an assist despite using BotRK on the target. This happened multiple times. I'm also pretty irked that though jungle has been drastically changed to have more gold, it's pretty much turned into season 2 jungle on steroids; instead of gp10 tank jungles; its just turned into tank-fest.
That is only later in the game. And the fact is, for jungler purposes, the only clear that matters is the first clear. Maybe the 2nd.
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Madreds is really good on blue. or on purple with a lane swap.
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United States23745 Posts
On July 16 2013 11:22 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 11:00 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:52 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:51 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:48 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 10:28 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 16 2013 10:23 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 10:12 Amui wrote:On July 16 2013 09:56 Amarok wrote:On July 16 2013 09:48 TheYango wrote:
[quote]
There's still no compelling reason to wait for a support to have 2700 gold before you have Locket when you could have it way earlier on a jungler or top laner. No, but it's still more achievable for the jungler as well which will largely have the same effect of increasing options. With less passive gain provided by the item and more MR options (including budget ones) it becomes less vital to complete asap. I saw supports getting Bulwark in solo Q as it was. If Locket isn't as vital a mid game item it can be the item that the support works towards. Emblem is amazing in the laning phase, Aegis has a relatively smooth build path and the Locket active is at its most effective post 15-20 mins anyway. If you've watched competitive games recently, a rich support has maybe a kindlegem boots oracles, a ruby sightstone, and a stack of pinks. A poor one would be walking around with boots oracles normal sightstone and a couple of greens 30 minutes in. The poor support has about 900g of non-consumable stats. I don't think this trend will change either without a really cost efficient, poor slot efficiency item coming out in the sub 1500 price range(active AoE HP/mana restore, 1/2 second single target invuln, soulshroud passive etc) The most efficient support stats are HP and CDR. HP because they're too poor to buy both types of resist, and have low HP too because of level. CDR helps the support put out more spells = more support. I have seen supports getting Bulwark in pro games (VES vs Curse IIRC) and Locket is taken on supports at pro level semi-frequently. Pro games haven't been played on the ward gold sharing patch either. I take your point though. OGNLoL is all about Supports being the ward bitch. It's very rare to see a support pick up any real items. ftfy. Aside from Season 1; supports have always been ward bitches; it was a miracle for supports to get more than a shurelya's in season 2; season 3 has been even more problematic. I was just making a point that sometimes NA Supports will pick up a bigger item, in OGN it almost never happens. I'd have to go back and watch old Vods, but I feel like this is the worst it's been for supports in competitive play in terms of buying no items. I think it has to do with how long games go; and how kills are allocated; than it really has to do with NA supports buying items instead of wards. Also; don't know if anyone brought this up yet; but 3.9 has had some serious assist allocation bugs. My friend didn't get an assist despite using BotRK on the target. This happened multiple times. I'm also pretty irked that though jungle has been drastically changed to have more gold, it's pretty much turned into season 2 jungle on steroids; instead of gp10 tank jungles; its just turned into tank-fest. I still prefer that over the GP10 fest. Who cares if the Jungler builds tanky? That's just the way the position has developed. Not every role has to do damage. theres really no difference between philo hog and spirit stone ruby crystal aside from gp10 factor which really made a small difference (maybe what 600 gold in an average game?) like gp10s are so fucking overrated gp10 tanks vs season 3 jungler tanks who get more gold from jungle so it makes it even and they build whatever the most cost efficient items are then (aegis shurelya randuin vs spirit of the ancient golem locket aegis) the jungler role really hasnt changed at all in 3 seasons of terms of the pick types (thought champ pools have changed all the time)
I guess I just like seeing Junglers actually finish up items quicker instead of building Philo/HoG before moving into real items. Maybe it's just a psychological thing then.
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EPT
