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On June 18 2013 11:01 overt wrote:
They should revert all of the Corki nerfs. It would be a fun experiment. I miss S1 Corki and want to see if he was really as OP as he was considered at the time or if the ADC pool was just way too shallow.
I feel like you could probably take S1 Corki, place him in today's League, and he'd still be underplayed.
edit:
ok, I just really want to spam Corki games again without people yelling at me
Why would people yell at you lol?
Aoe blind would be pretty legit imo.Might be only champ who trades better with tear because you have aoe magic dmg blind :D.
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On June 18 2013 11:05 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2013 11:00 Sandster wrote:On June 18 2013 10:53 wei2coolman wrote:
I feel like kennen has his weakness at level 1. If you watch how cris played out renekton vs kennen in the LCS it was pretty impressive. Which game was that? Hard to see Renek having an advantage in that matchup unless he shoves lane to hit 2 first, assuming Kennen opens Doran Blade and W. That's exactly how he did it. Shoved it out. Backed. And came back to lane before kennen could shove back. Then rinse and repeat. It was pretty impressive imo.
It's a lot harder now since you can't clear a camp for exp and extra fury before lane phase.
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My friends are convinced that Corki is a bad pick so whenever we play ranked 5s they don't want me to play him. Granted, the two times I've picked him anyway I got wrecked in lane and played like shit but I really miss playing Corki. He was my favorite ADC in S1 and early S2 (but I guess he was everyone's favorite ADC then lol).
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On June 18 2013 11:07 Sandster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2013 11:05 wei2coolman wrote:On June 18 2013 11:00 Sandster wrote:On June 18 2013 10:53 wei2coolman wrote:
I feel like kennen has his weakness at level 1. If you watch how cris played out renekton vs kennen in the LCS it was pretty impressive. Which game was that? Hard to see Renek having an advantage in that matchup unless he shoves lane to hit 2 first, assuming Kennen opens Doran Blade and W. That's exactly how he did it. Shoved it out. Backed. And came back to lane before kennen could shove back. Then rinse and repeat. It was pretty impressive imo. It's a lot harder now since you can't clear a camp for exp and extra fury before lane phase.
If I remember correctly he did it on blue side. Can still get fury on helping with blue. Or red invade.
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On June 18 2013 11:09 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2013 11:07 Sandster wrote:On June 18 2013 11:05 wei2coolman wrote:On June 18 2013 11:00 Sandster wrote:On June 18 2013 10:53 wei2coolman wrote:
I feel like kennen has his weakness at level 1. If you watch how cris played out renekton vs kennen in the LCS it was pretty impressive. Which game was that? Hard to see Renek having an advantage in that matchup unless he shoves lane to hit 2 first, assuming Kennen opens Doran Blade and W. That's exactly how he did it. Shoved it out. Backed. And came back to lane before kennen could shove back. Then rinse and repeat. It was pretty impressive imo. It's a lot harder now since you can't clear a camp for exp and extra fury before lane phase. If I remember correctly he did it on blue side. Can still get fury on helping with blue. Or red invade.
Before, you either help leash or clear wolves/wraiths to get to lane with 50+ fury and some exp, and destroy everyone in a trade because you already have empowered W, so you can shove lane easily for 2, then immediately E in with empowered W. Now you can't since if you leash you'll miss cs.
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On June 18 2013 10:53 wei2coolman wrote:
I feel like kennen has his weakness at level 1. If you watch how cris played out renekton vs kennen in the LCS it was pretty impressive.
Same with any other mages really. You wait in a bush for them to come through lane/river, and then jump on them, away from minions. Wuking wrecks mages if he can get that advantage with a dash at level one, especially because of the attack speed buff, so if you move with them for 2 or 3 hits, you auto out trade their one spell+auto attacks. Pretty much why I don't skill anything as Kennen until I know where my enemy laner is. If they jump on you at level one, you just skill surge and run back until they retreat. The armor bonus actually helps a lot in that scenario, since 10 free armor at level one never hurts anyone.
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On June 18 2013 11:13 Cloud9157 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2013 10:53 wei2coolman wrote:
I feel like kennen has his weakness at level 1. If you watch how cris played out renekton vs kennen in the LCS it was pretty impressive. Same with any other mages really. You wait in a bush for them to come through lane/river, and then jump on them, away from minions. Wuking wrecks mages if he can get that advantage with a dash at level one, especially because of the attack speed buff, so if you move with them for 2 or 3 hits, you auto out trade their one spell+auto attacks. Pretty much why I don't skill anything as Kennen until I know where my enemy laner is. If they jump on you at level one, you just skill surge and run back until they retreat. The armor bonus actually helps a lot in that scenario, since 10 free armor at level one never hurts anyone.
You are forgoing any pressure by doing that though. You could just start W and start attacking him. Assuming you don't get careless and get jumped on with 0 or 1 stacks up you'll win every trade b/c of minion damage, stun, and W, and then he can't run away without losing most of his health. It's very dangerous for wukong to do that at level 1 since it's an all-in, and most prefer to wait for 2 to E+Q burst then back out. If you take E level 1 then you really are screwed at 2 when he does that since you absolutely cannot trade and will still take the full combo.
Kennen was traditionally weak at level 1 because everyone ran AP runes/masteries and Q level 1. He's extremely strong against melee right now b/c he's protect by his minion wave while getting potshots at you with level 1 W + AD runes/masteries and often Doran Blade. If he ever gets a mark on you then you are zoned from the wave until the mark goes away
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Those Kennen nerfs make me sad, he's my go to mid/top if don't get adc
You can't chain W anymore, that's really big..
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i been doing some statistics / analysis of the na lcs super week for a post im gonna do or w/e... and i was wondering if you fellow nerds would like the info dump of all the statistics i found (in messy format) ?? its things from picks, first tower time, first blood time, lane positions, dragon timers baron etc etc gold situation @ 10 / 20 min etc
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On June 18 2013 10:20 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2013 10:13 arb wrote:
Corki
[W] - Valkyrie - Now costs 50 mana (down from 100)
[R] - Missile Barrage - Now costs 20 mana (down from 30/35/40 mana)
Oh jesus finally. Que people complaining that the issue with Corki is phos bomb mana cost and valk cd, and that Riot isn't fixing what is wrong with him.
Well to be fair his mana costs are obnoxiously high. They're relics of when champions actually had mana costs on their skills
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On June 18 2013 11:25 spellsy wrote:
i been doing some statistics / analysis of the na lcs super week for a post im gonna do or w/e... and i was wondering if you fellow nerds would like the info dump of all the statistics i found (in messy format) ?? its things from picks, first tower time, first blood time, lane positions, dragon timers baron etc etc gold situation @ 10 / 20 min etc
Make a chart of ward positions for both sides for all time brackets please ~
I also love the Kennen nerfs. It's ridiculous that a champion that's practically impossible to lose lane with and almost impossible to gank gets to be one of the best teamfighters in the entire game.
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On June 18 2013 11:25 spellsy wrote:
i been doing some statistics / analysis of the na lcs super week for a post im gonna do or w/e... and i was wondering if you fellow nerds would like the info dump of all the statistics i found (in messy format) ?? its things from picks, first tower time, first blood time, lane positions, dragon timers baron etc etc gold situation @ 10 / 20 min etc
That sounds amazing. It would also be nice if you could throw in. A small snippet of how you would analyze the stats, and what you think it means.
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I'm an lol noob, in the depths of bronze. Just a couple of quick questions (please don't mock me  . I've watched a few events now, and I've heard a lot of discussion about the "korean meta" and such. As I'm not really familiar with the evolution of things, all I really see is the AD/support bot, AP mid, bruiser top, jungle ganker. Typically either the support or jungle will be tanky.
It seems there is a lot of lane swapping and heavier pushing/ganking with the koreans, They seem to like having a 2v1 top and 1v2 bot type of game, where it's a race for both teams to take down the 2v1 tower. Then they stack and try to take down the rest of the enemies outer turrets as quickly as possible.Meanwhile, trying to maintain map vision and grab dragon and enemy buffs as much as possible. This is just my vague perception of things.
So can anyone clear things up for me? What is the korean meta or playstyle and how does it differ from what I see in NA?
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On June 18 2013 11:34 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2013 11:25 spellsy wrote:
i been doing some statistics / analysis of the na lcs super week for a post im gonna do or w/e... and i was wondering if you fellow nerds would like the info dump of all the statistics i found (in messy format) ?? its things from picks, first tower time, first blood time, lane positions, dragon timers baron etc etc gold situation @ 10 / 20 min etc
Make a chart of ward positions for both sides for all time brackets please ~
I hope you're joking. That is horribly inefficent to do by hand. What would be nice is if someone pays a programmer to write an application that analyzes youtube VODs and creates an interactive minimap with a timeline feature that tracks ward placements and movements.
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On June 18 2013 11:42 caelym wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2013 11:34 Shikyo wrote:On June 18 2013 11:25 spellsy wrote:
i been doing some statistics / analysis of the na lcs super week for a post im gonna do or w/e... and i was wondering if you fellow nerds would like the info dump of all the statistics i found (in messy format) ?? its things from picks, first tower time, first blood time, lane positions, dragon timers baron etc etc gold situation @ 10 / 20 min etc
Make a chart of ward positions for both sides for all time brackets please ~ I hope you're joking. That is horribly inefficent to do by hand. What would be nice is if someone pays a programmer to write an application that analyzes youtube VODs and creates an interactive minimap with a timeline feature that tracks ward placements and movements.
It'd be one of the most useful statistics though =P
Basically just having different screenshots with dots where the wards were at that time
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I reckon with good enough quality video you could use the ward icons seen on the minimap to do it. Would have to be able to parse the in-game time, too, to account for pauses.
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On June 18 2013 11:41 Reborn8u wrote:I'm an lol noob, in the depths of bronze. Just a couple of quick questions (please don't mock me . I've watched a few events now, and I've heard a lot of discussion about the "korean meta" and such. As I'm not really familiar with the evolution of things, all I really see is the AD/support bot, AP mid, bruiser top, jungle ganker. Typically either the support or jungle will be tanky. It seems there is a lot of lane swapping and heavier pushing/ganking with the koreans, They seem to like having a 2v1 top and 1v2 bot type of game, where it's a race for both teams to take down the 2v1 tower. Then they stack and try to take down the rest of the enemies outer turrets as quickly as possible.Meanwhile, trying to maintain map vision and grab dragon and enemy buffs as much as possible. This is just my vague perception of things. So can anyone clear things up for me? What is the korean meta or playstyle and how does it differ from what I see in NA?
The korean meta is strong lanes and taking turrets early with lane swaps. Constant pressure on the map, pushing to turrets for turret dives. They also get kills so they can almost always take an objective from the kill, be it a buff, or a turret, or dragon. When the first tier of turrets are down, you lose control of roughly 90% of the active map. It's very high coordination play.
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On June 18 2013 11:44 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2013 11:42 caelym wrote:On June 18 2013 11:34 Shikyo wrote:On June 18 2013 11:25 spellsy wrote:
i been doing some statistics / analysis of the na lcs super week for a post im gonna do or w/e... and i was wondering if you fellow nerds would like the info dump of all the statistics i found (in messy format) ?? its things from picks, first tower time, first blood time, lane positions, dragon timers baron etc etc gold situation @ 10 / 20 min etc
Make a chart of ward positions for both sides for all time brackets please ~ I hope you're joking. That is horribly inefficent to do by hand. What would be nice is if someone pays a programmer to write an application that analyzes youtube VODs and creates an interactive minimap with a timeline feature that tracks ward placements and movements. It'd be one of the most useful statistics though =P Basically just having different screenshots with dots where the wards were at that time
I did that for Curse. A screenshot at 00:40 and 01:40 to track level 1 ward coverage.
Not to steal spellsy's thunder or anything, but here's an old report on Dignitas: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0iavogi2ew62p5e/Dignitas cheatsheet.pdf
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On June 18 2013 11:47 caelym wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2013 11:44 Shikyo wrote:On June 18 2013 11:42 caelym wrote:On June 18 2013 11:34 Shikyo wrote:On June 18 2013 11:25 spellsy wrote:
i been doing some statistics / analysis of the na lcs super week for a post im gonna do or w/e... and i was wondering if you fellow nerds would like the info dump of all the statistics i found (in messy format) ?? its things from picks, first tower time, first blood time, lane positions, dragon timers baron etc etc gold situation @ 10 / 20 min etc
Make a chart of ward positions for both sides for all time brackets please ~ I hope you're joking. That is horribly inefficent to do by hand. What would be nice is if someone pays a programmer to write an application that analyzes youtube VODs and creates an interactive minimap with a timeline feature that tracks ward placements and movements. It'd be one of the most useful statistics though =P Basically just having different screenshots with dots where the wards were at that time I did that for Curse. A screenshot at 00:40 and 01:40 to track level 1 ward coverage. Not to steal spellsy's thunder or anything, but here's an old report on Dignitas: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0iavogi2ew62p5e/Dignitas cheatsheet.pdf
this is kinda funny how things change from those bullet points at the bottom. I did a bit of analysis on dig in this super week and this is what i wrote (sry first draft english):
Dignitas actually averages the fastest FB of any team, coming in at 4:23 compared to the league average at 5:40. However, at the same time they force by FAR the slowest tower and drag times out of any other team, with average 11:53 drag time (vs. league avg 9:55), and 8:53 average tower time (vs. league avg 6:54). These statistics emerge from Dig’s tendency to 2v2 over 2v1. In the 20 games of superweek there were only 3 2v2 matchups in NA, every other game was 2v1 mid/top vs 2v1 bot. All 3 of these 2v2s were forced by Dignitas. While many may attribute this to “slow adoption of the meta” and think that this contributed to Dig’s poor performance this week, on the contrary in all 3 of these 2v2 games Dig ‘won’ the early game and came out with an early gold lead at 10 minutes. Both of Dig’s wins were in these 3 games and the 3rd was the CLG Dig game which... we all knew what a mess that was. I believe that Dig’s 2v2 abilities will be very important going forward as I believe the 3.8 patch will bring forth more 2v2 style in the NA LCS.
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EPT
