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On June 16 2013 08:31 gtrsrs wrote:i will see if the guys are interested. i'd rather them post here than reddit. last thing i want is their confidence to be torn apart after a really solid week like this week, where the results just didn't fall in place. tbh though i can't see someone like Cris contributing much to this forum  maybe maple would
It was a really solid week.
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On June 16 2013 08:24 Shikyo wrote:
Tryndamere isn't exactly problematic either. His kit isn't all that strong and he's not very skillbased. If his stuff had mana costs he probably wouldn't really run out of mana ever because he doesn't need to use them often at all, etc. Good design in my opinion even though he has the melee ADC issues.
hes pretty much perma ban diamond1++ right now
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On June 16 2013 09:02 kongoline wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 08:24 Shikyo wrote:
Tryndamere isn't exactly problematic either. His kit isn't all that strong and he's not very skillbased. If his stuff had mana costs he probably wouldn't really run out of mana ever because he doesn't need to use them often at all, etc. Good design in my opinion even though he has the melee ADC issues. hes pretty much perma ban diamond1++ right now
Is that because he's not a mana champion though?
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On June 16 2013 09:02 kongoline wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 08:24 Shikyo wrote:
Tryndamere isn't exactly problematic either. His kit isn't all that strong and he's not very skillbased. If his stuff had mana costs he probably wouldn't really run out of mana ever because he doesn't need to use them often at all, etc. Good design in my opinion even though he has the melee ADC issues. hes pretty much perma ban diamond1++ right now
What server? definitely not EUW
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I would say, in order, the three hardest things to balance in the game right now are.
1. Stealth. Because of the obvious costs of pinkwards + the need to ward in lane/get oracles for every teamfight.
2. Manaless. Because its hard to determine how much weaker a spell should be to make up for spammability. Energy champs are typically the least problematic because Energy does fall off lategame to somewhat make up for earlygame.
3. AD Scaling on spells for melle champs. Because its really difficult to know how many autoattacks the champ should be balanced on (conversely ranged is less problematic because it seems easier to determine that variable).
edit:
HM to globals.
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can we agree to say melee?
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I don't think AD scaling is that terrible to be honest or that much harder to balance. It's much easier to get tons of AP and armor is also much easier to come by and people who build defensive stats are going to get lots of armor already because of the ADC. Also, to be frank, armor items are just straight up better in league than MR items which makes AD casters even less obnoxious.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
I think spelling it mêlée would be really badass but somehow I don't think it's going to catch on
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On June 16 2013 08:24 Shikyo wrote:
Tryndamere isn't exactly problematic either. His kit isn't all that strong and he's not very skillbased. If his stuff had mana costs he probably wouldn't really run out of mana ever because he doesn't need to use them often at all, etc. Good design in my opinion even though he has the melee ADC issues.
Tryn would run out of mana constantly if he had any significant mana costs. What makes Tryn obnoxious is it's really easy for him to get as strong as the enemy top laner, and then he just never leaves lane because q gives him a never ending supply of health (on top of whatever vamp he has) and he can spin away from danger at whim, while the free crit from his q gives him an extremely high kill potential 1v1. If his q had mana costs he could be pushed out of lane much more easily and he wouldn't be half as obnoxious.
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On June 16 2013 03:29 kongoline wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 01:07 Cloud9157 wrote:On June 16 2013 00:52 Alzadar wrote:
Warwick is not a jungler, stop trying to force him in there.
He remains a defiantly powerful pick top lane and he absolutely does not need any reworks. Although removing Jayce, Elise and Nidalee from the game would be a nice buff, fuck those guys. Everyone else he lanes just fine against, and he outscales basically every top laner. Then you gank the everliving shit out of him because he has 0 escapes. Also, wouldn't mages like Kennen and Vlad give him some trouble? Virtually resourceless poke champions that can easily build sustain and poke him forever, while he can q them at best. there are plenty of succesful top laners without escape mechanic (ryze, irelia, rumble,olaf to name a few) warwick biggest issue is no wave clear, he just cant push in time
All of those champions at least have some form of cc to prevent a gank, or at least try to anyway. A snare, a stun, a ms boost+slow, and a slow are all better than what wolf man has, unless he has the MS benefit going.
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On June 16 2013 09:55 zer0das wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 08:24 Shikyo wrote:
Tryndamere isn't exactly problematic either. His kit isn't all that strong and he's not very skillbased. If his stuff had mana costs he probably wouldn't really run out of mana ever because he doesn't need to use them often at all, etc. Good design in my opinion even though he has the melee ADC issues. Tryn would run out of mana constantly if he had any significant mana costs. What makes Tryn obnoxious is it's really easy for him to get as strong as the enemy top laner, and then he just never leaves lane because q gives him a never ending supply of health (on top of whatever vamp he has) and he can spin away from danger at whim, while the free crit from his q gives him an extremely high kill potential 1v1. If his q had mana costs he could be pushed out of lane much more easily and he wouldn't be half as obnoxious.
Oh? Whenever Trynd uses Q vs me I'm just like "ALL RIGHT TIME FOR AN EXCHANGE" because his damage will suck. I don't think you should spam it to heal...
Warwick could like, go for Tiamat if clear indeed is the issue. Just think about it. Ult someone-> dude next to you gets oneshot.
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On June 16 2013 09:53 overt wrote:
I don't think AD scaling is that terrible to be honest or that much harder to balance. It's much easier to get tons of AP and armor is also much easier to come by and people who build defensive stats are going to get lots of armor already because of the ADC. Also, to be frank, armor items are just straight up better in league than MR items which makes AD casters even less obnoxious.
The reason I say its hard to balance is because for each AD scaling champ you have to say, "I think this champ will get off X number of autoattacks during a typical trade/all-in", then you balance around that number of autoattacks. Because that number for melle champs is really matchup dependent they would typically be a class that is pretty easy to counter with a champ that controls range well, like a Kennen, Orianna. On the other hand, they would devastate champs that can't control gaps like Cassio.
Its just tough to design.
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Well yeah, some champions are just pretty lamely designed.
Pantheon laning is basically "Force him off the lane or into kill range with spears until I run out of mana. If I do, win lane, if they stack armor and I can't, lose lane".
Jax sort of is another. Either he wins allin and then you never kill him and he steamrolls you or he doesn't win allin and does nothing.
I think ranged / AP casters have much better interactions because if you die once for example it's not the end of the world
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On June 16 2013 10:04 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 09:55 zer0das wrote:On June 16 2013 08:24 Shikyo wrote:
Tryndamere isn't exactly problematic either. His kit isn't all that strong and he's not very skillbased. If his stuff had mana costs he probably wouldn't really run out of mana ever because he doesn't need to use them often at all, etc. Good design in my opinion even though he has the melee ADC issues. Tryn would run out of mana constantly if he had any significant mana costs. What makes Tryn obnoxious is it's really easy for him to get as strong as the enemy top laner, and then he just never leaves lane because q gives him a never ending supply of health (on top of whatever vamp he has) and he can spin away from danger at whim, while the free crit from his q gives him an extremely high kill potential 1v1. If his q had mana costs he could be pushed out of lane much more easily and he wouldn't be half as obnoxious. Oh? Whenever Trynd uses Q vs me I'm just like "ALL RIGHT TIME FOR AN EXCHANGE" because his damage will suck. I don't think you should spam it to heal... Warwick could like, go for Tiamat if clear indeed is the issue. Just think about it. Ult someone-> dude next to you gets oneshot.
He's not going to use his q if he plans on trading blows (unless he has a fresh minion wave and isn't afraid of you engaging). He'll use it after your all in fails because he had his ult, ghost, and spin and managed to slip away, then use his q several times, get more fury off of wolves or golems, then come back to lane with a decent chunk of health and get more off the minion wave (meanwhile, if you're a champion with mana, you've probably already recalled because it costed you so much mana trying to kill him).
If spinning costed him mana, he couldn't just mercilessly split push and then troll away when your team shows up either. Eventually he'd have to back off because he couldn't split push safely without the mana for multiple spins.
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I remember hopping on a stream chat a long time ago, and Maple taught me how to play Varus, as well as told me what his thoughts on Destiny's current skill level was. Just something small like that made me cheer for him, so asking them to sign up would be a great idea I think.
As long as they don't mind silver "experts" trying to teach them how to play better.
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On June 16 2013 09:55 zer0das wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 08:24 Shikyo wrote:
Tryndamere isn't exactly problematic either. His kit isn't all that strong and he's not very skillbased. If his stuff had mana costs he probably wouldn't really run out of mana ever because he doesn't need to use them often at all, etc. Good design in my opinion even though he has the melee ADC issues. Tryn would run out of mana constantly if he had any significant mana costs. What makes Tryn obnoxious is it's really easy for him to get as strong as the enemy top laner, and then he just never leaves lane because q gives him a never ending supply of health (on top of whatever vamp he has) and he can spin away from danger at whim, while the free crit from his q gives him an extremely high kill potential 1v1. If his q had mana costs he could be pushed out of lane much more easily and he wouldn't be half as obnoxious.
He wasnt really obnoxious or overly strong when mocking shout/spin cost like 100 health a piece and his q didnt have as obnoxious of a heal on it tbh.
then it was all about stopping his farm before he shit on you late game 1v5
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On June 16 2013 09:53 Scip wrote:
I think spelling it mêlée would be really badass but somehow I don't think it's going to catch on
Yes it would be pretty badass, but most people online don't have the keyboard necessary for diacritics (except if they use French or use some other language with diacritics), nor do they have the patience to learn the hotkeys or search up the character. Also, unfortunately, no one online actually cares about the proprieties in spelling.
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On June 16 2013 07:31 TheYango wrote:
Well you also have to adjust for the fact that there actually are zero manaless supports or AD carries.
Some of the supports might as well be manaless. Such low mana costs.
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On June 16 2013 11:17 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 07:31 TheYango wrote:
Well you also have to adjust for the fact that there actually are zero manaless supports or AD carries. Some of the supports might as well be manaless. Such low mana costs.
Which ones are you talking about?
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On June 16 2013 11:23 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 11:17 wei2coolman wrote:On June 16 2013 07:31 TheYango wrote:
Well you also have to adjust for the fact that there actually are zero manaless supports or AD carries. Some of the supports might as well be manaless. Such low mana costs. Which ones are you talking about?
I'd like to know that too, easy to go oom on most every support tbh.
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EPT
