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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
That's the kind of ability that create a lot of rage and push people to consider that, because they are manaless, they are retarded. I don't see many people whining about the current Rengar or Garen, altho they are manaless and still played from time to time. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On June 16 2013 05:13 gtrsrs wrote: I personally feel like vlad is better than a situational pick. Whenever kennen is strong, vlad is strong for similar or same reasons. Vlad will see a resurgence soon and I think he'd do well on our team. You are correct in saying that vlad isn't suited to normal Cris play but there's nothing wrong with expanding your style ^_^ What? No, not really. Kennen is popular again because of his strong laning and potential to AoE stun. His kit has far more range and utility than Vlad. But what Vlad has is a much higher DPS if he's able to land all his spells (e.g. see jiji's Sejuani initiation for Link). Vlad is far more niche than Kennen imo. The lack of CC is huge. That said, I agree and even applaud that Cris is already looking to expand his champ pool this early in the season. One of the biggest things I'm keeping my eye on is which teams are improving their lineup as the season progresses. There are teams that urgently need to expand/improve their champion pool (hi dig) and other teams that aren't in dire need of expansion but it would certainly make them into even bigger threats than they are already (hi C9). P.S. I second MoonBear's suggestion of getting your players registered on TL and interacting with our community. I'm sure you'd agree that VES currently has one of the lower visibility ratings out of the NA LCS teams. I'm willing to feature all your players' streams as well if they sign up and mingle. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On June 16 2013 07:29 cLutZ wrote: They are? Shen, Rumble, Zed, Zac, Kennen, Lee Sin. Plus the champs that are being rendered manaless by the currently abusive relationships they have with tear/manamune: Jayce, Kha, That is 8 champs that is 7% of the champs that is probably making up at least 30% of picks/bans. all these champs (except jayce and kha who have mana, manamune/tear being OP is a separate discussion because the idea is anyone who buysmana can spam their shit anyway) are champs which have been falling in and out of favour since forever. Shen cycles between super popular and never played, same with kennen, lee sin has smaller cycles but the recent nerfs nearly got rid of him, zac and zed are relatively new and zac was retarded at release and might still be too strong this just happens to be a time where all the energy champs are popular. Rumble never really gets popular and I haven't seen him much lately at all tho I haven't followed the korean scene. you could easily find a time where no resourceless champs were being picked and use that for evidence that they are bad or a time where only a few were being used and cite that as evidence that they are fine. in fact I'd wager that at almost any give time 7% of the champ pool covers 30% of the picks and bans for any pro tournament simply because of how much FoTM affects players picks and comps | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
Doublelift streaming. Game about to start he asks saint if he is ready for the new batshit OP ashe with the passive change. A minute into the game he just like "Wow, I just missed this whole fucking wave of CS. I hate ashe." | ||
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Solaris.playgu
Sweden480 Posts
On June 16 2013 07:29 cLutZ wrote: They are? Shen, Rumble, Zed, Zac, Kennen, Lee Sin. Plus the champs that are being rendered manaless by the currently abusive relationships they have with tear/manamune: Jayce, Kha, That is 8 champs that is 7% of the champs that is probably making up at least 30% of picks/bans. Also Rengar, Shyvana, Tryndamere, Renekton, Vlad, Garen, Mundo. Any more? | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
katarina garen akali vladimir aatrox mundo mordekaiser riven wow ninja edit dude | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On June 16 2013 06:41 WaveofShadow wrote: If you're around I'll duo with you as well. Fuck my LP, fuck the fact that I may have to leave midgame when the guy decides to wake up for no reason, fuck the terrible internet in this house that cuts out sporadically, fuck my brother's awful computer that is 7 years old and crashes if it's left out too long. I just can't play any more ARAMs. I just can't. They are soul-suckingly awful (although maybe the soul-sucking part is me trying to grind IP for the last few champs I don't own, and next the insanely expensive lifesteal quints/hybrid marks). I wonder though if almost 2 months of playing basically ARAMs have improved my teamfighting at all. You say that now but every damn time I've asked you it's always "oh I have a baby" or "oh I'm playing on a potato" I don't even play lol anymore you jerk. | ||
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Solaris.playgu
Sweden480 Posts
Wanted to expand the list, since his argument was that resourceless=op and that he just conveniently only mentioned resourceless champs that are being picked a lot right now. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On June 16 2013 07:54 Requizen wrote: You say that now but every damn time I've asked you it's always "oh I have a baby" or "oh I'm playing on a potato" I don't even play lol anymore you jerk. Btw you can play on a potato. Geforce nforce 405 has 30 FPS on lowest settings as long as certain skills aren't cast(Vayne ult OP) Btw I think that mana > energy. Energy is so damn restrictive just about always. The only thing it allows you to do better is to like harrass with skill X every 10 seconds. Mana-based champions can do that up to a certain point but they'd go to base anyway, right? Lategame mana just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> energy in every way. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On June 16 2013 07:59 Solaris.playgu wrote: Owned. I just happen to remember stuff right after I press the post button, happens all the time -.- Wanted to expand the list, since his argument was that resourceless=op and that he just conveniently only mentioned resourceless champs that are being picked a lot right now. No, its not resourceless = OP. Its Resourceless = harder to balance. You guys are now just listing a bunch of champions that have been relegated to second class, mostly because they were too strong at one point then got nerfed, or the changes to Items/jungle hurt them, or have never really been good. edit On June 16 2013 07:59 Shikyo wrote: Btw you can play on a potato. Geforce nforce 405 has 30 FPS on lowest settings as long as certain skills aren't cast(Vayne ult OP) Btw I think that mana > energy. Energy is so damn restrictive just about always. The only thing it allows you to do better is to like harrass with skill X every 10 seconds. Mana-based champions can do that up to a certain point but they'd go to base anyway, right? Lategame mana just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> energy in every way. Mana should be >>>>>> energy in every way lategame. I'd say for the most part though mana is only > energy lategame. I.E. Kennen is really not terrifically worse than morgana lategame, even though they serve similar purposes. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
typically "fighters" are hard to balance because they have to stay in a fight for a long time but somehow not be unkillable or do too much burst also assassins have been hard to balance because they are really strong but easy to focus so its just another category of shit thats hard to balance at what point do we draw the line and say we're going to stop making all X because its hard for us. "You guys are now just listing a bunch of champions that have been relegated to second class, mostly because they were too strong at one point then got nerfed, or the changes to Items/jungle hurt them, or have never really been good. " There are very few champs they at one point weren't too strong and gotten nerfed | ||
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Solaris.playgu
Sweden480 Posts
that second line sounds like something straight out of a conspiracy theory" "They are? Shen, Rumble, Zed, Zac, Kennen, Lee Sin. Plus the champs that are being rendered manaless by the currently abusive relationships they have with tear/manamune: Jayce, Kha, That is 8 champs that is 7% of the champs that is probably making up at least 30% of picks/bans." I may have misinterpreted, but I read these posts as Teut saying that there are a lot of weak, manaless champs and you saying that there aren't and then listed all the manaless champs that are being played right now. So I wanted to complete the list of manaless champs to see if what I took to be your statement had any merit to it or not. But anyways, I can agree that they are harder to balance. This is mostly due to the fact that they have fundamentally different mechanics that regulate their strength than mana-champs, which to me makes it a lot more interesting. You know, variation and stuff. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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Solaris.playgu
Sweden480 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
Generally, a mana champion (particularly a mid laner) requires investing into some sort of mana item. Mordekaiser, on the other hand, requires the investment of a Revolver... which sort of balance things out. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On June 16 2013 07:36 NeoIllusions wrote: What? No, not really. Kennen is popular again because of his strong laning and potential to AoE stun. His kit has far more range and utility than Vlad. But what Vlad has is a much higher DPS if he's able to land all his spells (e.g. see jiji's Sejuani initiation for Link). Vlad is far more niche than Kennen imo. The lack of CC is huge. That said, I agree and even applaud that Cris is already looking to expand his champ pool this early in the season. One of the biggest things I'm keeping my eye on is which teams are improving their lineup as the season progresses. There are teams that urgently need to expand/improve their champion pool (hi dig) and other teams that aren't in dire need of expansion but it would certainly make them into even bigger threats than they are already (hi C9). P.S. I second MoonBear's suggestion of getting your players registered on TL and interacting with our community. I'm sure you'd agree that VES currently has one of the lower visibility ratings out of the NA LCS teams. I'm willing to feature all your players' streams as well if they sign up and mingle. again i disagree, i think it's kennen (and vlad's) utter dominance of top-laners, once they get their key item (which for kennen, just happens to be d-blade, whereas for vlad it's more like revolver or sorcs or seeker's, whichever fits your matchup/style) that is what makes them strong. kennen has had an AOE stun always, and hasn't been changed in a substantial time. it's just that all the EVEN MORE bullshit champs like elise and rengar and rumble have been steadily and repeatedly nerfed to the point that kennen, while un-touched, is on top again. the utility that vlad brings is just as high as kennen's (troll pool into zonyas ultimate anti-focus, utter obliteration with ult + aoe) and his sustained damage is probably even higher. i'm 100% sure vlad will see a resurgence before the end of s3 and i just want to make sure we lead that charge  that being said, kennen's range and earlier kick-in of dominance DO make him stronger than vlad right now. the CC thing isn't that big though imo. not the way that NA is played right now i will see if the guys are interested. i'd rather them post here than reddit. last thing i want is their confidence to be torn apart after a really solid week like this week, where the results just didn't fall in place. tbh though i can't see someone like Cris contributing much to this forum  maybe maple would | ||
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Louuster
Canada2869 Posts
yes please guitar | ||
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