EPT[Patch 3.08: Aatrox Patch] General Discussion - Page 31
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On June 13 2013 05:45 mordek wrote: Speaking of which my friend who's new to the game said this is the most challenging issue for him. He doesn't "get" how to build. I plan on just chatting with him on general rules of thumb with synergies with champ kits and enemy composition etc. but wondering if anyone's put together a framework for item buying decisions? Play the game, figure out what works. Obviously, you talking to him about the basics will help. But there's no substitute to trial and error. | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
A lot us were pretty hardcore in-game and often in enemy alliances, but all we really did was play dumb forum games, make fun of each other and post random stuff. | ||
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mordek
United States12705 Posts
On June 13 2013 05:46 jcarlsoniv wrote: Play the game, figure out what works. Obviously, you talking to him about the basics will help. But there's no substitute to trial and error. That was my first response :D However, I think there are some things more experienced players know to look for. I know I don't look at the Tab window often enough in the game to help me make decisions. There has to be something going on there! It's true there's no substitute for the trial and error but sometimes it helps to be guided towards certain things. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 13 2013 05:46 jcarlsoniv wrote: Play the game, figure out what works. Obviously, you talking to him about the basics will help. But there's no substitute to trial and error. Pretty much this. How to build on a champion comes out a twofold understanding of how the champion in question works, as well as an understanding of every item in the pool and how they affect a champion's development. You can give someone cookie-cutter builds to start out with, but beyond that, someone has to reach their own understanding of the champion and the items, because following a cookie-cutter build doesn't get you anywhere if you're not thinking about what each item actually *does*. You start from understanding the champion, and understanding the items, at the most basic level of "what do they do". Everything else develops from that fundamental understanding. The part about this that a lot of people neglect is that they don't play with items that people think are "bad" so they never end up building up an understanding of when those items are good even when they are situationally useful. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On June 13 2013 05:40 TheYango wrote: The problem this build discussion has is that it very quickly gets people into thinking of a build as a pattern that you follow from start to finish, rather than a malleable thing that you shift on every back to match the flow of the game and your needs based on that. Simpler to assume that everyone in the discussion knows that tendancies and desired stats/synergy are implied rather than fixed builds, I guess. Though it's true that if you don't include a disclaimer each time people are quick to take it as gospel... When I get asked about that "main issue" of builds, mine is coming up with a concise enough way to explain it (begone, foul mouths whispering I always have this issue). I feel like if I tell them it comes with experience they just won't feel helped at all (and if they're like me they'll understand the stuff if explained but won't be able to "discover" it by themselves), and if I want to give them guidelines that they can then expand upon it can go pretty far (I could tell them that ArPen and CDR are better than AD on Urgot to justify brut/FH/etc. over BT, but knowing that it comes from his total AD ratios would let them apply it to AD scaling champs in general), and thus take a lot of time. When a friend started she was spamming Ryze games and asked me how to build him because she felt she wasn't doing much (well you start with a farm-reliant champ who's weak early... ), I tried to tell her why Tear/RoA/etc. are good items on him and why Tear is enough without rushing AA, but she let half of it slip and only kept "rush tear" (despite me saying she should start catalyst for safety); on the other hand if I told her "Ryze likes mana" she'd probably have built Sheen because mana+AP. | ||
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Taktik
Poland680 Posts
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Dusty
United States3359 Posts
On June 13 2013 06:00 Taktik wrote: Am I retarted or building madreds and machete at the same time is not bad idea for faster jungle clear? The butcher passive works on that new madred passive magic thingy.. You're not stupid at all for thinking that as it does improve cleartimes but i dont know about it's practicality as I haven't ever tried it myself. | ||
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
On June 13 2013 06:00 Taktik wrote: Am I retarted or building madreds and machete at the same time is not bad idea for faster jungle clear? The butcher passive works on that new madred passive magic thingy.. Well, the machete 10 magic damage on hit doesn't stack with madreds anymore, so you're wasting most of machete's usefulness I think. Might be better to just get a longsword, at least you get some combat stats from that. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 13 2013 06:00 Taktik wrote: Am I retarted or building madreds and machete at the same time is not bad idea for faster jungle clear? The butcher passive works on that new madred passive magic thingy.. This was the whole basis of Razor+Spirit > Wriggle's comparison prior to this. It actually applied to Madred's procs before too. | ||
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On June 13 2013 06:00 Taktik wrote: Am I retarted or building madreds and machete at the same time is not bad idea for faster jungle clear? The butcher passive works on that new madred passive magic thingy.. I would question why you're spending 300g on that item. On what champion would you need to have more items to kill jungle camps faster by that much? The amount of time you save seems almost minimal while you're costing yourself an item slot. At the same time, the itemisation pathway out of the Machete means a Spirit Stone item because two Madreds is really awkward. For 300g, you could get working towards a Kindlegem or more useful items that have a far higher impact in the game. The Machete is only going to affect jungle camps (and low impact at that). While I can see why it might be useful, I can't think of which champions would specifically want it. | ||
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Taktik
Poland680 Posts
On June 13 2013 06:03 thenexusp wrote: Well, the machete 10 magic damage on hit doesn't stack with madreds anymore, so you're wasting most of machete's usefulness I think. Might be better to just get a longsword, at least you get some combat stats from that. But how about building wriggles and then some spirit item? Wriggles gives 100 magic dmg per attack and with spirit stone its + 20 mag dmg + 20% of your autos right? Think about J4 or any champ who has build in attack speed increase in his kit. But I guess thats just too much money dumped into 'jungle' items.. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
On June 13 2013 06:08 Taktik wrote: But how about building wriggles and then some spirit item? Wriggles gives 100 magic dmg per attack and with spirit stone its + 20 mag dmg + 20% of your autos right? Think about J4 or any champ who has build in attack speed increase in his kit. But I guess thats just too much money dumped into 'jungle' items.. The problem is I don't think any jungler who would build wriggles still feels too slow clearing camps with a wriggles. Compare building the spirit item with just straight-up buying AD (or maybe even AS): both increase your clear speed but the latter gives you combat stats. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On June 13 2013 06:16 TheYango wrote: Most of the Spirit items are cost-effective for combat stats even ignoring the jungle clearing bonuses, which is how they became so popular in the first place. Even so, if you have a Madreds and want to get a Spirit Stone item would you open with the Machete first? Say you wanted the Golem Spirit for example. Why not go Kindlegem -> Golem Spirit? If you have a Madreds already, I can't think of many scenarios where an additional Machete produces a lot of benefit. | ||
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Dusty
United States3359 Posts
all of my wat | ||
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
On June 13 2013 06:16 TheYango wrote: Most of the Spirit items are cost-effective for combat stats even ignoring the jungle clearing bonuses, which is how they became so popular in the first place. Fair enough, although Riot did just nerf the spirit items. I just don't see anyone going wriggles+spirit stone, like Moonbear said you probably want the other component of the spirit item first. | ||
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