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On July 03 2013 14:56 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 13:50 cLutZ wrote:On July 03 2013 13:39 Ryuu314 wrote:On July 03 2013 13:35 petered wrote:On July 03 2013 13:31 cLutZ wrote:On July 03 2013 13:17 Gahlo wrote:Pokeball go! Ha. And Smash if you read this, just take away his true damage. True damage is dumb. very much agreed. The health/cdr stack olaf was just the dumbest thing to both play and watch. I kinda liked the fact that Olaf is the only champion in the game with a spammable true damage nuke. It makes him unique. Honestly, I think Riot just needs to revert the axe slow diminishing over time nerf, maybe some of the cd nerfs, and he'll be in a good place. I used to think the same thing. And maybe with Rubbish Shurelias and Nerfed Locket it could work. But, right after S2 champs and after S2 rewards were locked, a friend dared me to play Olaf in 30 straight games. That's when I determined I loved axes, and found E to be rather lame. Maybe its a side-effect of that, but during that run "Spammable True Damage Nuke" really just became "Single Target Nuke" in my mind. And now when I play him it doesn't feel that different from a Khazix or Panth Q. And from the other side, the only difference is building Ruby Crystal/Giants belt instead of Cloth Armor/Chain Vest. Obviously this means they need to make Axes true damage, and Reckless Swing physical damage.
Eh, that'd be a nerf because you can never land the axes 
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On July 03 2013 14:53 Amui wrote:
I don't like the damage stacking because later on in the game, the duration of the slow is higher than the cooldown on axes(at or near max CDR), making it such that he still becomes a diving monster, and if anything, trucks squishies even harder.
Well previously the slow was 24-40% for 2.5 seconds.
It could be something like 20/22.5/25/27.5/30% slow for 2.5 seconds base. Slightly worse on the base slow value in return for no decay(decay makes it harder to hit, because acceleration is a bitch). But each additional axe landed could increase the slow by 10-20%.
I guess there's also a difference in ideals between what you want on Q and what I want though. I want to be able to stick like glue to somebody if I've successfully landed multiple axes. You want to be able to wreck them.
No, I just think hitting an Axe should be rewarded, while you seem to think hitting 1 axe should be relatively irrelevant, while hitting the 2nd should be rewarded. I think this is a weird sentiment, at least for TL, because we usually emphasize skillshot stuff. I mean, you solution seems like the first axe just puts someone on notice of the need to dodge the 2nd axe. However, the 1st axe is easy enough to dodge as it is.
Basically, Olaf balance is a question of how many axes should Olaf be expected to hit + pick up. I think it is reasonable to expect an Olaf to hit an axe, pick up that axe, then hit an axe. This requires that Olaf to: 1. Aim the 1st axe properly Meaning: A. Hit target, and B. Aim it in a direction it can be picked up. 2. Terminate the 1st axe at the proper distance. 3. Pick up said Axe. 4. Hit a second axe on a slowed target. This is basically more than is demanding than any other bruiser, and is basically impossible for the current Olaf even with the slow he currently has.
Your system doesn't let Olaf "stick like glue" it means he never has a chance to, except against idiots. You are basically turning him into a nubstomper. Because under your system you need to hit Axe 1 + Axe 2 on a priority target before you engage. Then, you engage, and crush the idiot who didnt wait out the debuff.
Against a good player here is what happens: You hit axe 1 (no slow/weak slow, just debuff), target backs up (considering you are targeting backline champs as it is). If you charge in, he can dodge as normal you take free damage, and if you miss axe 2 (which you should, cus who gets hit by 2 consecutive long range axes if they are not slowed?) GG.
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The goal with the debuff is to tune it so that it's not possible for the target to outrange the next by walking in most scenarios if he gets hit by the first one, but also such that olaf doesn't get to pointblank axe the target after one hit without using ghost. Prenerf max Q allowed you to pretty much run up and E the guy if you landed the first axe, leading to ridiculously easy axe chains if you landed one.
Olaf's teamfighting was a lot more ghosting(ult at any CC), throw axe towards squishy, preferably through the front line, and keep going through, picking up the axe on the way because of max CDR. If the squishy is running, they aren't hitting anybody useful, and if they' are going after you, you can dive them with impunity.
I think you underestimate how fast a ghosted olaf can gapclose as well.
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I think you are overestimating how fast/how well a ghosted Olaf can gapclose against carries with reposition (there are more carries with reposition than those without) The problem with current olaf is that the fading slow basically means that you need to hit like THREE axes in order to get in range of someone who you are chasing (this applies both to jungle olaf doing a gank, and to any olaf trying to get on a fleeing squishy in a teamfight.) to start meaningful melee attacks.
If you're ghosting, you still need to hit axes in order to get meaningful melee off unless your target has NO MOBILITY, because axes are the only way Olaf can compensate for enemy mobility. But enemy mobility makes axes harder to land.
Furthermore, if you've popped ghost, you've given the message "You may now burn flash to keep away from me." Flash SHOULD be an automatic dodge on an axe, as well.
The decaying slow really made me just give up playing olaf entirely. I was never great at him, but it's SO HARD to chain axes with the slow decaying so quickly. Chaining axes is already non-trivial.
I feel like a lesser slow, but no decaying, would be a lot better than the current model.
Furthermore, when playing AGAINST Olaf, it feels like his CC-immunity lasts FOREVER. It can be very frustrating even when you know you have to wait it out before using your CC ability (which may or may not be a crucial damage ability.)
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On July 03 2013 16:04 Amui wrote:
The goal with the debuff is to tune it so that it's not possible for the target to outrange the next by walking in most scenarios if he gets hit by the first one, but also such that olaf doesn't get to pointblank axe the target after one hit without using ghost. Prenerf max Q allowed you to pretty much run up and E the guy if you landed the first axe, leading to ridiculously easy axe chains if you landed one.
Olaf's teamfighting was a lot more ghosting(ult at any CC), throw axe towards squishy, preferably through the front line, and keep going through, picking up the axe on the way because of max CDR. If the squishy is running, they aren't hitting anybody useful, and if they' are going after you, you can dive them with impunity.
I think you underestimate how fast a ghosted olaf can gapclose as well.
Its like you are comparing Ghosted Olaf to a target with no summoners.
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Im 8 and 3 with olaf in S3, manmode OP, only shit better is my 15 / 3 warwick.
Srs for those at lower leagues, go jungler, pick a jungler with strong sustain / strong level 3 (like Olaf / ww..trolol, not viable but ye Hecarims a good one, xin annihilates)
Take smiteless blue, rush enemy red (through midlane entrance, others likely already warded) smitekill it. Go kill enemy jungler at wraiths or wait for him at red, you'll be level 3.
Im not sure if this works at all with the jungler changes, so u might not be able to go blue -> red, but they will be clearing wolves anyway so you can too and still pull this off.
I literally have a 100% success rate on them burning summoners and about 70% kill rate. They never fucking expect it lulz. Im at scrub levels, but im pretty certain this would work up to a point in silver/low gold as ive done it at that level in duoQ before a few times. Clearly it doesnt work when people start throwing down a shit-ton of wards early but thats literally reserved for higher leagues.
The difference comes from you being lvl 3 with red buff and them lvl 2 :<
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On July 03 2013 16:39 Capped wrote:
Im 8 and 3 with olaf in S3, manmode OP, only shit better is my 15 / 3 warwick.
Srs for those at lower leagues, go jungler, pick a jungler with strong sustain / strong level 3 (like Olaf / ww..trolol, not viable but ye Hecarims a good one, xin annihilates)
Take smiteless blue, rush enemy red (through midlane entrance, others likely already warded) smitekill it. Go kill enemy jungler at wraiths or wait for him at red, you'll be level 3.
Im not sure if this works at all with the jungler changes, so u might not be able to go blue -> red, but they will be clearing wolves anyway so you can too and still pull this off.
I literally have a 100% success rate on them burning summoners and about 70% kill rate. They never fucking expect it lulz. Im at scrub levels, but im pretty certain this would work up to a point in silver/low gold as ive done it at that level in duoQ before a few times. Clearly it doesnt work when people start throwing down a shit-ton of wards early but thats literally reserved for higher leagues.
The difference comes from you being lvl 3 with red buff and them lvl 2 :<
My old s2 trick was to actually start boots -> my red -> my blue (smite blue) -> kill jungler @ red. Shit worked on everyone and i was sad as fuck when it stopped working s3.
Maybe this would be a suitable replacement :3
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On July 03 2013 16:55 O-ops wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 16:39 Capped wrote:
Im 8 and 3 with olaf in S3, manmode OP, only shit better is my 15 / 3 warwick.
Srs for those at lower leagues, go jungler, pick a jungler with strong sustain / strong level 3 (like Olaf / ww..trolol, not viable but ye Hecarims a good one, xin annihilates)
Take smiteless blue, rush enemy red (through midlane entrance, others likely already warded) smitekill it. Go kill enemy jungler at wraiths or wait for him at red, you'll be level 3.
Im not sure if this works at all with the jungler changes, so u might not be able to go blue -> red, but they will be clearing wolves anyway so you can too and still pull this off.
I literally have a 100% success rate on them burning summoners and about 70% kill rate. They never fucking expect it lulz. Im at scrub levels, but im pretty certain this would work up to a point in silver/low gold as ive done it at that level in duoQ before a few times. Clearly it doesnt work when people start throwing down a shit-ton of wards early but thats literally reserved for higher leagues.
The difference comes from you being lvl 3 with red buff and them lvl 2 :< My old s2 trick was to actually start boots -> my red -> my blue (smite blue) -> kill jungler @ red. Shit worked on everyone and i was sad as fuck when it stopped working s3. Maybe this would be a suitable replacement :3
Just keep an eye on midlane roaming, they can get to you pretty quickly if they notice fast enough. 99% of the time they dont, i remember two instances that ended with a double kill for mid and me dead (so 2 for 1) and me forcing summoners from jungler then flashing into baron pit and escaping
I havent done this in a long while though, could be completely void after the jungle changes (1:55 wolves)
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i tried going red -> their red for the kill as lee sin but if they get smiteless blue and go straight to red there's a chance you mistime and hit it as they kill red and get level 3, at which point you're in a world of shit
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I try to do this every time I'm Udyr on blue side R->E. It's a bit riskier on purple side, because their bot lane can easily collapse on you (the lane isn't likely to be shoved in so early on). If they went to clear wolves before red, it's an easy steal, but if they come at that awkward timing where you've started red but haven't quite secured it yet, then you're getting attacked by the lizard elder and their jungler. Always inform your team that you want a hard leash and that you're going to try and steal, or else you can end up with real awkward things happening, like their mid laner coming and getting your freshly-stolen buffs. People tend not to be too happy when that happens :/
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On July 03 2013 10:56 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 10:44 Slusher wrote:On July 03 2013 10:34 Ryuu314 wrote:
HURICAN PLS
imo, that item is so trash. the extra shots do reduced damage and also doesn't apply crits so there's 0 reason to ever get it on an AD carry. Only time it does anything is if you're doing some janky on-hit build, but those builds are sub-optimal in like 99% of situations.
In a similar vein, I also think Tiamat/Hydra is pretty terrible item but people buy that a lot so iunno... um Hydra is super good because it's a final tier lifesteal item that does not have a BF sword build path, also the active is super strong on people with damage modifiers like Talon and Zed, I think the item is actually super good especially with split pushing being as strong as it is right now, it functions really well on champions with attack resets like wukong or champions who want to do a lot of damage in burst like current style of Rengar I actually think the item is highly underrated at the moment. but yes I agree 100% on hurricane about the only good use of it I can think of is split push Teemo, not having to use mushrooms to apply pressure would allow you to set a lot more mines, but it would also take up an ap slot so it's iffy at best. there is basically no reason to upgrade tiamat to hydra except to save slots, the only reason hydra even exists is because they know you'll buy a vamp and they don't want buying a tiamat to = being forced into BT down the road. just leave it as tiamat + vamp and buy other stuff for as long as you have spare slots.
Because 600 gold for 25 AD and 2% lifesteal and the passive effect is a bad deal? O.o
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Well here's smash's perspective on olaf and what direction he'll be taking it.
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=39379795#39379795
passive slight tweak to make it cap at low, non-zero HP%.
Q - gameplay unchanged, but possible cooldown, slow(numbers) and vision changes.
W - realign with some design goal
E - probably unchanged
R - arpen out, something else in. Maybe like 30/40/50 MS or something?
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On July 03 2013 18:03 Amui wrote:Well here's smash's perspective on olaf and what direction he'll be taking it. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=39379795#39379795passive slight tweak to make it cap at low, non-zero HP%. Q - gameplay unchanged, but possible cooldown, slow(numbers) and vision changes. W - realign with some design goal E - probably unchanged R - arpen out, something else in. Maybe like 30/40/50 MS or something?
Smash, if you read this, I suggest 30% being the floor on his passive. If you make it that and the Maw changes go in, it gives theory/mathcrafting Olaf with Maw a solid datapoint.
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Ive tried bluebuild olaf, its pretty fun actually if you want to just lob axes all day. Takes years to stack tear tho
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Takes years? How? You have a short cd spell that uses no mana and a spell that resets almost instantly
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Whens the patch :<
must play udyr
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taiwan s3 worlds qualifier now
http://live.garena.tw/
18：00 ahq vs. CGA Ls
19：00 CGA Ls vs. ahq
20：00 yoeIM vs. Spider
21：00 Spider vs. yoeIM
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Bilwater strong? I find it weaker now than in s2, with the changes. :/ Stronger than BotRK for the price, very possible.
About Olaf, the slow's not that bad once you're on top of a target (I mean it's still a permaslow if done right). Reaching them, however, is a bitch. Kennen/Vlad/etc. went from doable match-ups with Q first and forcing chain axes to compensate for the poke (and free damage you take while running to pick up the axe as they run) to world of pain since even if you hit them, you'll need at least 2 other axes (probably more) and by then with the additional distance covered (since decaying slow -> higher average MS) they'll generally be too close to their tower for going on them to be worth it.
Then you had the s3 itemisation that makes it easier to get HP than resistances,or rather the other way around, and it becomes annoying for Olaf to get enough resistances to compensate BotRK/Liandry's/Elise/Jayce/Zac (esp. Elise and Jayce during laning) 's % HP damage. Especially as MR itemisation has been weakened a bunch. of course, you can still go for SV first item or something, but it's really not interesting as Olaf because it still gives you a rather low HP pool compared to E's cost (well you'll generally max Q anyway against champs with %HP sources who are mostly ranged, but still) and the need to survive the initial burst and incidental AoE that you'll eat while you're trying to non-gapclose your way to your targets.
I mean Bulwark isn't a bad item either, it's just not a good Olaf item (that's a godlike Wukong item tho), and Hexdrinker has no HP.
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On July 03 2013 20:49 cascades wrote:
WATCH.OGN.NOW
Thank you for the reminder! <3
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EPT
