• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 12:05
CET 18:05
KST 02:05
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners10Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!35$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship6[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win10
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon! Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close"
Tourneys
Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions [BSL21] RO32 Group Stage BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review
Tourneys
[BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Why we need SC3
Hildegard
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1609 users

[Patch 3.08: Aatrox Patch] General Discussion - Page 199

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 197 198 199 200 201 380 Next
Interested in helping start an on-topic, serious League discussion thread? PM Neo to talk about how to get started.
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
June 25 2013 17:46 GMT
#3961
Pretty surprised that noone mentioned viktor.He is pretty much same as annie except you have poke.Also ziggs is a pretty simple character.
kainzero
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States5211 Posts
June 25 2013 17:47 GMT
#3962
On June 26 2013 02:22 ArchAngelSC wrote:
I wouldn't really say Oriannas ult is noob-friendly

I wasn't implying that Ori is easy for beginners, but I would say that learning Ori is very beneficial to newcomers.

Shockwave isn't forgiving but it is a game changer, and you have to understand how to use it. You have relative safety with your shield and your speed. Your ball mechanic has synergy with a lot of different champions and you can learn how to coordinate your stuff with theirs. You still have basic burst combos to learn. Your autoattacks do decent damage so you have to learn how to fit those in with decent spacing. She has good farming capability and she has decent roaming.

If Annie and Ryze are great Day 1 champs, then Ori is probably a great Day 15 champ.
Cloud9157
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2968 Posts
June 25 2013 17:48 GMT
#3963
On June 26 2013 02:46 nafta wrote:
Pretty surprised that noone mentioned viktor.He is pretty much same as annie except you have poke.Also ziggs is a pretty simple character.


Laser alone is hard enough to work for most people learning/playing him. Need to know where to cast it, and then angle it in the right direction to hit someone/reveal an area.
"Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source?" -Some idiot
Sandster
Profile Joined November 2006
United States4054 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-25 17:52:44
June 25 2013 17:49 GMT
#3964
I would never, ever recommend TF/Ori to someone who's played the game for 2 weeks. That's when you move on to the Viktor and Ziggs mentioned above since they require you to understand proper positioning of all your abilities relative to what the other guy can do, and both of them have trickier control of their skillshot pokes than "shoot it in a direction from your character and hope it hits".

TF and Ori rely on heavy zone control, heavy positioning requirements while using skills that require your constant input, and your team to understand what you can do. They are by hard some of the hardest mids to learn.
Sponkz
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark4564 Posts
June 25 2013 17:51 GMT
#3965
For newbies i'd recommend Lee sin mid. He's so easy to play, every new player can learn him in a matter of hours.
hi
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
June 25 2013 17:52 GMT
#3966
On June 26 2013 02:46 nafta wrote:
Pretty surprised that noone mentioned viktor.He is pretty much same as annie except you have poke.Also ziggs is a pretty simple character.


Viktor: Very similar to Annie, yes. However, not nearly as forgiving on mana. Laser isn't easy. Much less consistent CC. Chaos Storm doesn't last as long and can't tank shots for you. He's also generally more squishy.

Ziggs: All skillshots, unforgiving to miss anything because of CDs. Mana intensive, not a whole lot of CC, escape is hard to learn and use effectively. Very squishy, hard to roam with. If he gets locked down, he's dead.
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
Cloud9157
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2968 Posts
June 25 2013 17:52 GMT
#3967
^smash the keyboard get penta kill amirite

But seriously, fuck lanesin in general. Guy is such an ass.
"Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source?" -Some idiot
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
June 25 2013 17:52 GMT
#3968
Speaking of Autoattacks. Karma has a god Tier AA animation. Its like between Marine and Hydralisk speed.
Freeeeeeedom
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
June 25 2013 17:54 GMT
#3969
On June 26 2013 02:52 cLutZ wrote:
Speaking of Autoattacks. Karma has a god Tier AA animation. Its like between Marine and Hydralisk speed.


And the slight buff to her Q explosion radius makes farming soooooo much more intuitive. Before it was very frustrating. It's still super annoying when a stray melee minion wanders in front of you just as you Q for the kill though.
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
nyxnyxnyx
Profile Joined April 2010
Indonesia2978 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-25 17:57:17
June 25 2013 17:56 GMT
#3970
Karthus is easy since you can focus completely on CSing and still not 'lose out'. Of course, being able to go ham and land W into multiple Qs is pretty sick, but you can get by without that just fine. Also, if you go Revive/Teleport like I do you can feed like crazy and still be a beast (;
cool beans
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-25 17:58:35
June 25 2013 17:56 GMT
#3971
I think I am the only person in the world who finds viktor e not hard to hit at all lol.

Ziggs q has 4 sec cd how is that long lol.Every mid straight up dies without doing shit if he gets locked down.
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-25 18:00:10
June 25 2013 17:58 GMT
#3972
On June 26 2013 02:56 nafta wrote:
I think I am the only person in the world who finds viktor e not hard to hit at all lol.

Ziggs q has 4 sec cd how is that long lol.Every mid straight up dies without doing shit if he gets locked down.



*cough*

No.

But Viktor is a different beast than most champs. It takes a while to figure out his power curves. Believe me, he's not a champ I would throw at someone and say "go learn to play mid"


And no, I always feel Ziggs dies especially fast. His Q has a 4 sec CD, sure. But his WER are all very unforgiving if you miss.

A champ like Annie does not die quickly by any means (molten armor + RoA)
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
June 25 2013 18:00 GMT
#3973
On June 26 2013 02:58 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2013 02:56 nafta wrote:
I think I am the only person in the world who finds viktor e not hard to hit at all lol.


*cough*

No.

But Viktor is a different beast than most champs. It takes a while to figure out his power curves. Believe me, he's not a champ I would throw at someone and say "go learn to play mid"


Well no as in I think any player should be able to hit it easily and I don't understand what is so hard.I know you are THE viktor player on tl :D.

No disrespect kind sir.
Sandster
Profile Joined November 2006
United States4054 Posts
June 25 2013 18:01 GMT
#3974
You don't let new ADCs start out with Draven. Likewise you don't let new mid players start with champs that require you to spend most of your attention figuring out how to get your abilities to work properly.
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
June 25 2013 18:02 GMT
#3975
On June 26 2013 03:00 nafta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2013 02:58 jcarlsoniv wrote:
On June 26 2013 02:56 nafta wrote:
I think I am the only person in the world who finds viktor e not hard to hit at all lol.


*cough*

No.

But Viktor is a different beast than most champs. It takes a while to figure out his power curves. Believe me, he's not a champ I would throw at someone and say "go learn to play mid"


Well no as in I think any player should be able to hit it easily and I don't understand what is so hard.I know you are THE viktor player on tl :D.

No disrespect kind sir.


Lol, no disrespect taken.

But think about how many times people miss Rumble ults. Now make that your chief DPS spell, and think about how awful it feels to miss that shit.

Sure, have someone play 10 straight games as Viktor, and they figure it out and miss a hell of a lot less. But after 300+ ranked Viktor games, I STILL miss E sometimes.

It's one of those, "why do this when there is something so much easier?" things
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
June 25 2013 18:04 GMT
#3976
On June 26 2013 02:46 nafta wrote:
Pretty surprised that noone mentioned viktor.He is pretty much same as annie except you have poke.Also ziggs is a pretty simple character.


ziggs simple?

uhhhh, wtf?

Like seriously he is one of the hardest AP's in LoL. He's 100% skillshot with extremely tricky to use escape/mobility and an extremely unforgiving positional minefield where if you use either of his two utility skills improperly in a situation you are completely fucked. He's also extremely reliant on his AA passive to be played decently, which requires even more positional skill and game knowledge to know when you can use safely. Maybe he looks simple if you just play him like hur dur throw da bombs, but you will get shit on against anyone past bronze. Ziggs took me like 20 games to get to the point where I felt acceptable on him, and like all I play is skillshotty mids which I can usually pick up in like 3 games, he's really really hard.
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
Sandster
Profile Joined November 2006
United States4054 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-25 18:06:33
June 25 2013 18:06 GMT
#3977
Even his freaking Q, his "simplest" and most straightforward ability, takes a while to get used to in speed and distance based on where you aim it.
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
June 25 2013 18:06 GMT
#3978
On June 26 2013 03:04 sob3k wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2013 02:46 nafta wrote:
Pretty surprised that noone mentioned viktor.He is pretty much same as annie except you have poke.Also ziggs is a pretty simple character.


ziggs simple?

uhhhh, wtf?

Like seriously he is one of the hardest AP's in LoL. He's 100% skillshot with extremely tricky to use escape/mobility and an extremely unforgiving positional minefield where if you use either of his two utility skills improperly in a situation you are completely fucked. He's also extremely reliant on his AA passive to be played decently, which requires even more positional skill and game knowledge to know when you can use safely. Maybe he looks simple if you just play him like hur dur throw da bombs, but you will get shit on against anyone past bronze. Ziggs took me like 20 games to get to the point where I felt acceptable on him, and like all I play is skillshotty mids which I can usually pick up in like 3 games, he's really really hard.


Y'know, Ziggs might be my next project. I've always loved him, but I'm soooooooo bad at him.
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
Capped
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom7236 Posts
June 25 2013 18:09 GMT
#3979
i think zigg's poke potential counteracts alot of the difficulty in his W/E. WITH mana regen (because god if he isnt the most mana hungry champ in the game i dont want to know who is) he can spam it every 4 seconds at incredible range if theres nothing blocking it and clear extremely quickly with it too :3

I dont find his escape to be all that difficult really, more complicated then everyone else though.

Minefield is a complete cunt, but useful for escapes :3
Useless wet fish.
Vanka
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
China1336 Posts
June 25 2013 18:10 GMT
#3980
The chinese server just got 3.8, and hasn't discovered jungle nunu yet. These are good times, my friends.
Prev 1 197 198 199 200 201 380 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
16:55
FSL teamleague IC vs RR week17
Freeedom2
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 335
BRAT_OK 69
MindelVK 26
Vindicta 1
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 5118
Horang2 2216
Jaedong 488
EffOrt 439
Rush 262
actioN 259
Soma 225
Hyun 90
Mind 64
Rock 46
[ Show more ]
Backho 44
ToSsGirL 37
zelot 24
Terrorterran 19
Sacsri 7
Dota 2
qojqva3312
Dendi1193
syndereN297
LuMiX1
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor537
Other Games
singsing2083
B2W.Neo1611
Mlord609
Lowko274
Sick237
Fuzer 204
Hui .197
KnowMe186
ArmadaUGS97
XcaliburYe55
nookyyy 47
Trikslyr29
goatrope16
Organizations
StarCraft 2
WardiTV1183
ComeBackTV 198
Counter-Strike
PGL173
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• iHatsuTV 18
• Adnapsc2 13
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2752
Other Games
• Shiphtur265
• tFFMrPink 14
Upcoming Events
IPSL
55m
dxtr13 vs OldBoy
Napoleon vs Doodle
LAN Event
55m
Lambo vs Clem
Scarlett vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs TBD
Zoun vs TBD
BSL 21
2h 55m
Gosudark vs Kyrie
Gypsy vs OyAji
UltrA vs Radley
Dandy vs Ptak
Replay Cast
5h 55m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
16h 55m
WardiTV Korean Royale
18h 55m
LAN Event
21h 55m
IPSL
1d
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
BSL 21
1d 2h
spx vs rasowy
HBO vs KameZerg
Cross vs Razz
dxtr13 vs ZZZero
Replay Cast
1d 15h
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
1d 18h
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.