EPT[Patch 3.08: Aatrox Patch] General Discussion - Page 197
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InfSunday
United States735 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 26 2013 00:25 Sandster wrote: Does it depend on role though? As a carry you def want to die as few times as possible, but there are some tankier roles that HAVE to be in the middle of the other team to do their jobs. Obviously you still want to minimize deaths, but sometimes it's inevitable you die for your team, and if you back out too early then you're not doing your job. Or as a support I want to minimize deaths but I will gladly die to keep my adc alive 9 times out of 10. A lot of times that people die in low/mid level games to save someone, their own death is actually avoidable as well (or the person they were saving might not have died anyway). Saying "I died to save my carry, was worth it" is sometimes just an excuse not to reflect on these situations and evaluate whether you actually made the correct play. | ||
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Capped
United Kingdom7236 Posts
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
On June 26 2013 00:30 TheYango wrote: A lot of times that people die in low/mid level games to save someone, their own death is actually avoidable as well (or the person they were saving might not have died anyway). Saying "I died to save my carry, was worth it" is sometimes just an excuse not to reflect on these situations and evaluate whether you actually made the correct play. Well at my level it's usually an overextension, and a lot of deaths are unavoidable. If someone is for sure going to die I'd rather die alone than let my adc die or give up a double. Playing "safely", farming efficiently, and taking objectives with the team is definitely the most stable playstyle though. | ||
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Kyrie
1594 Posts
On June 26 2013 00:26 InfSunday wrote: I've thought for a while now that keeping deaths low can often be better than getting kills. If my opponent is low, I'd rather zone him in cs than all-in and risk just trading, because that puts us as even and I like being ahead. this is more or less true, but even just trading kills with a substantial wave pushing into the opposing tower will put you very far ahead unless you have a bounty | ||
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Lylat
France8575 Posts
On June 25 2013 22:20 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Honestly I used to think that you could go for kills or go for creeps but a diamond player was like "you're bad if you can't do both" and that changed my attitude entirely CS is a metric of how well you are playing. Kills are a metric of how well you capitalize on your opponents' mistakes. Nothing's set in stone but if your harass and farm are better than the people at your level then you'll probably have a considerable advantage over them. Then you're talking about kill in lane, what about roaming ? Doesn't focusing on kills means roaming and helping other lanes ? How can you do both then, killing and csing ? | ||
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Keniji
Netherlands2569 Posts
On June 26 2013 00:14 nafta wrote: High kda pretty much is same with low deaths.5/1/5 is average stats but is 10kda and you can easily achieve it in a standart game while 15/3/15 seems rather impossible :D. with 5/1/5 you should be able to win most games. Sounds pretty good to me. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On June 26 2013 00:44 Lylat wrote: Then you're talking about kill in lane, what about roaming ? Doesn't focusing on kills means roaming and helping other lanes ? How can you do both then, killing and csing ? It's about timing. If you push out a creep wave the instant it arrives in your lane you have roughly 45+ seconds to roam before you'll lose any CS, and significant time beyond that where CS losses will be minimal. So long as you aren't missing CS in your haste to clear the wave, and move efficiently (e.g. turning back when it's clear you were spotted by a ward), then you can roam quite a bit without losing out on much CS. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
Ok so its kind of deaths, but only dumb ones. Like the ones where you aren't allowed to say "worth". How's Karthus as a mid these days? Strong lategame, suffers from inability to roam and no escapes? Actually, would it be possible to play him as a support? I'm kind of tempted to try. His Q is cheap as heck, he's got a nice shred/slow in his W, E is great anti-dive/ waveclear and his ult is still his ult. | ||
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Kyrie
1594 Posts
On June 26 2013 00:44 Lylat wrote: Then you're talking about kill in lane, what about roaming ? Doesn't focusing on kills means roaming and helping other lanes ? How can you do both then, killing and csing ? between pushing out the lane before roaming and not wasting time on unlikely ganks (the first is easy, the second is something that even pros don't do perfectly), the tradeoff between 'killing and csing' isn't as large as you might expect. successful roaming also almost always opens up objectives, so an understanding of how to roam without giving up farm is conducive to getting a gold lead in the laning phase. roaming because you're behind in a lane is a viable way to use kills to catch up when you're unable to cs and is the most common instance, along with joining fights, where one would be making a conscious decision to give up significant minion farm for kills On June 26 2013 00:51 ticklishmusic wrote: The most important stat in the game isn't actually measured ingame. It's "how many times I got caught", which includes derping around, getting counterjungled, getting ganked, getting gibbed early in a teamfight and getting gangbanged when you're splitpushing or AFK farming. Ok so its kind of deaths, but only dumb ones. Like the ones where you aren't allowed to say "worth". How's Karthus as a mid these days? Strong lategame, suffers from inability to roam and no escapes? Actually, would it be possible to play him as a support? I'm kind of tempted to try. His Q is cheap as heck, he's got a nice shred/slow in his W, E is great anti-dive/ waveclear and his ult is still his ult. karthus is still a good mid, but is more common in competitive play than soloq because of the risk of wasted deaths from poor communication, as reginald kindly showed in last week's throw vs clg. support karthus is bad for a litany of reasons that would individually shut him down, with the biggest probably being his need for farm | ||
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nyxnyxnyx
Indonesia2978 Posts
On June 26 2013 00:51 ticklishmusic wrote: The most important stat in the game isn't actually measured ingame. It's "how many times I got caught", which includes derping around, getting counterjungled, getting ganked, getting gibbed early in a teamfight and getting gangbanged when you're splitpushing or AFK farming. Ok so its kind of deaths, but only dumb ones. Like the ones where you aren't allowed to say "worth". How's Karthus as a mid these days? Strong lategame, suffers from inability to roam and no escapes? Actually, would it be possible to play him as a support? I'm kind of tempted to try. His Q is cheap as heck, he's got a nice shred/slow in his W, E is great anti-dive/ waveclear and his ult is still his ult. Karthus is the only mid champ I can play. He's IMO the best champ to climb the ladders with minimal skills. | ||
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captharlock
United States223 Posts
On June 26 2013 00:30 TheYango wrote: A lot of times that people die in low/mid level games to save someone, their own death is actually avoidable as well (or the person they were saving might not have died anyway). Saying "I died to save my carry, was worth it" is sometimes just an excuse not to reflect on these situations and evaluate whether you actually made the correct play. This is definitely true. It is something I tend to fall into at times. Sometimes ,especially in Bronze/Silver, it ends up being a double kill. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On June 26 2013 01:06 nyxnyxnyx wrote: Karthus is the only mid champ I can play. He's IMO the best champ to climb the ladders with minimal skills. I can confirm this. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
 Playing him feels dirty, though. It's like cheating. | ||
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
On June 26 2013 00:51 ticklishmusic wrote: The most important stat in the game isn't actually measured ingame. It's "how many times I got caught", which includes derping around, getting counterjungled, getting ganked, getting gibbed early in a teamfight and getting gangbanged when you're splitpushing or AFK farming. Ok so its kind of deaths, but only dumb ones. Like the ones where you aren't allowed to say "worth". How's Karthus as a mid these days? Strong lategame, suffers from inability to roam and no escapes? Actually, would it be possible to play him as a support? I'm kind of tempted to try. His Q is cheap as heck, he's got a nice shred/slow in his W, E is great anti-dive/ waveclear and his ult is still his ult. his ult does like no damage if you have no items, and doesn't provide the utility of other support ults | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On June 26 2013 00:51 ticklishmusic wrote: The most important stat in the game isn't actually measured ingame. It's "how many times I got caught", which includes derping around, getting counterjungled, getting ganked, getting gibbed early in a teamfight and getting gangbanged when you're splitpushing or AFK farming. Ok so its kind of deaths, but only dumb ones. Like the ones where you aren't allowed to say "worth". How's Karthus as a mid these days? Strong lategame, suffers from inability to roam and no escapes? Actually, would it be possible to play him as a support? I'm kind of tempted to try. His Q is cheap as heck, he's got a nice shred/slow in his W, E is great anti-dive/ waveclear and his ult is still his ult. Karthus is still completely fine as mid. It's not that he suffers from inability to roam. He just doesn't really ever need to leave lane. He can just keep farming creeps + wraiths/wolves if jungler doesn't need, and then ult. Trading kills feels so good with Karthus. It's like "ok, you got some money, but I'm Karthus, and if you keep this up, I will be a monster". Missing skittles sucks though. He isn't the easiest champion to play, but you can certainly get away with making mistakes and trading kills. | ||
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captharlock
United States223 Posts
On June 26 2013 01:47 kainzero wrote: It's only cheating until you miss all your skittles and then you realize how much each one counts. Huge difference between hitting 10/15 and 15/15. It's sad when you can't make anyone "taste the rainbow" If you was trying to learn mid, would Karthus be the easiest to learn or would it be someone else like Lux, Ahri, Morgana? | ||
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
Would say Annie/TF/Karthus are the easiest mids. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On June 26 2013 02:09 captharlock wrote: It's sad when you can't make anyone "taste the rainbow" If you was trying to learn mid, would Karthus be the easiest to learn or would it be someone else like Lux, Ahri, Morgana? I've always suggested Annie as a good place to start learning the game/mid. Her Q promotes last hitting, she has a lot of burst, CC, and Molten Armor gives her a lot of survivability. Once you start to figure out the dynamic, you can adapt most champions to mid. Morg is a nice, safe mid laner, and she's still very good. But you won't go wrong with Karthus. You can literally just sit back mashing Q and farm. It's really safe if you want it to be. | ||
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