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On June 25 2013 22:20 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Honestly I used to think that you could go for kills or go for creeps but a diamond player was like "you're bad if you can't do both" and that changed my attitude entirely
CS is a metric of how well you are playing. Kills are a metric of how well you capitalize on your opponents' mistakes. Nothing's set in stone but if your harass and farm are better than the people at your level then you'll probably have a considerable advantage over them.
Yeah, bolded part is essentially true. Thanks for tl;dr-ing my entire post. Now I feel like Alaric ~_~
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Does it mean that you feel as bad as I do, or as bad as I am? It's important so I know if I should feel happy that somebody relates or offended, y'know.
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On June 25 2013 20:58 Capricious_LoL wrote:
No one averages close to 100 cs/min save for the best AD mains at the top of the ladder, at least in the context of solo queue. And even like Turtle and Doublelift potentially might not reach that. In professional games, yes 100 cs/min is a good benchmark, but that's with teams proactively creating space for the carry to farm.
Depends on who you're playing.
I'll always have 200cs by 20 minutes when playing Riven and having a decent game, because it's so god damn easy to farm as Riven.
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At ~Gold 5 elo, people don't understand split pushing that well. Team don't respond well to it, and many teams don't know how to play with a split pusher on the team. If you split push too much there's a very high chance your team will be caught in a 4v5 simply because they don't understand the importance of warding and exerting pressure (without dying) to multiple lanes.
This applies even when it's not pure split pushing. There are so many times when you say you'll go take a creep wave later in the game, tell team "don't get caught", split off from the team for <30 seconds, and your team is completely dead. I don't know why but people love to get caught out (and it's partially due to poor warding).
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I feel like Navi's one line advice to me of "your goal in every game is to have the most CS on the team and the least deaths on the team" has made me a way better player. CS too important.
I do have the above problem in my current games though, where I tell my team I'm not with them and they should play defensively for 30 seconds, and they promptly don't.
I don't really like the 100CS/10mins benchmark, because typically when you're winning a game there's a point where your CS drops off as you're grouped up more and pushing into their base more, and it feels awkward when you look at your CS at 30 mins and you're winning but aren't CSing like a boss anymore.
I wonder what sort of a gold/min it translates to? According to elophant.com I average 375 or so gold/min on Lux, I feel like that's pretty good?
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Your goal should be trying to make the best play/decision in every situation. CS and KDA are just numbers that dont mean anything by themselves.
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On June 25 2013 23:03 Capricious_LoL wrote:
Your goal should be trying to make the best play/decision in every situation. CS and KDA are just numbers that dont mean anything by themselves.
THEY MEAN EVERYTHING
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On June 25 2013 22:50 Sandster wrote:
At ~Gold 5 elo, people don't understand split pushing that well. Team don't respond well to it, and many teams don't know how to play with a split pusher on the team. If you split push too much there's a very high chance your team will be caught in a 4v5 simply because they don't understand the importance of warding and exerting pressure (without dying) to multiple lanes.
This applies even when it's not pure split pushing. There are so many times when you say you'll go take a creep wave later in the game, tell team "don't get caught", split off from the team for <30 seconds, and your team is completely dead. I don't know why but people love to get caught out (and it's partially due to poor warding).
I just spam the "fall back" or "danger" ping constantly while split pushing. Occasionally I type "don't take damage" in chat. One of the biggest issues I've had is that your team will sit too far forward at their turret and eat constant poke from the enemy team while accomplishing nothing. Then they either get dived at the next turret or have to recall and concede a 2nd turret anyway.
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On June 25 2013 23:03 Capricious_LoL wrote:
Your goal should be trying to make the best play/decision in every situation. CS and KDA are just numbers that dont mean anything by themselves.
But trying to jump straight to that goal actually hinders more than it helps. Telling someone to try to have the fewest deaths/most CS on their team every game is Mister Miyagi level "wax on/off" sageness.
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On June 25 2013 23:15 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 23:03 Capricious_LoL wrote:
Your goal should be trying to make the best play/decision in every situation. CS and KDA are just numbers that dont mean anything by themselves. But trying to jump straight to that goal actually hinders more than it helps. Telling someone to try to have the fewest deaths/most CS on their team every game is Mister Miyagi level "wax on/off" sageness.
unless you play support. support is all about most kills on your team.
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what are some good sites/addons for tracking personal stats? kassad.in, lolking, and elophant are the sites i know of, but i was wondering if there were any others with additional functionality. i'm also curious if there are any lol utilities in the same vein as poker huds, overlaying data on other players and so on
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Having high kda and cs means that you just play super safe and stay in your lane longer than you should.I have never seen a person with both high kda/cs who is actively helping his team get ahead.Always the ezreals with >6 who just afk bot and then just stay 5 km behind their team so they get assists/kills but don't do dmg.
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On June 25 2013 23:19 Keniji wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 23:15 Seuss wrote:On June 25 2013 23:03 Capricious_LoL wrote:
Your goal should be trying to make the best play/decision in every situation. CS and KDA are just numbers that dont mean anything by themselves. But trying to jump straight to that goal actually hinders more than it helps. Telling someone to try to have the fewest deaths/most CS on their team every game is Mister Miyagi level "wax on/off" sageness. unless you play support. support is all about most kills on your team.
fk that, kill bitches get money buy wards
thug support lif
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On June 25 2013 22:50 Sandster wrote:
At ~Gold 5 elo, people don't understand split pushing that well. Team don't respond well to it, and many teams don't know how to play with a split pusher on the team. If you split push too much there's a very high chance your team will be caught in a 4v5 simply because they don't understand the importance of warding and exerting pressure (without dying) to multiple lanes.
This applies even when it's not pure split pushing. There are so many times when you say you'll go take a creep wave later in the game, tell team "don't get caught", split off from the team for <30 seconds, and your team is completely dead. I don't know why but people love to get caught out (and it's partially due to poor warding).
Don't feel bad, this happens to CLG as well
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On June 25 2013 23:56 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 22:50 Sandster wrote:
At ~Gold 5 elo, people don't understand split pushing that well. Team don't respond well to it, and many teams don't know how to play with a split pusher on the team. If you split push too much there's a very high chance your team will be caught in a 4v5 simply because they don't understand the importance of warding and exerting pressure (without dying) to multiple lanes.
This applies even when it's not pure split pushing. There are so many times when you say you'll go take a creep wave later in the game, tell team "don't get caught", split off from the team for <30 seconds, and your team is completely dead. I don't know why but people love to get caught out (and it's partially due to poor warding). Don't feel bad, this happens to CLG as well
Isn't that what he said ?
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On June 25 2013 23:33 nafta wrote:
Having high kda and cs means that you just play super safe and stay in your lane longer than you should.I have never seen a person with both high kda/cs who is actively helping his team get ahead.Always the ezreals with >6 who just afk bot and then just stay 5 km behind their team so they get assists/kills but don't do dmg.
What you're saying is correct, but it completely misses the point. Navi's advice wasn't some kind of magic panacea which will transform bad players into good players. It was a simple, memorable, and measurable instruction capable of turning bad players into better players.
Ketara needed this advice because he missed CS and died too much. He probably had other issues as well, but it's far, far easier to remember and focus on one or two issues at a time than try to improve everything simultaneously.
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For a small correction, the idea wasn't to have a high KDA, it was to have the least deaths on the team. IE, not do stupid shit as much. High kills not important, low deaths important.
It worked for me, Navi coached me for a day and I went from Silver 1 to Gold 1 in less than a month. Don't know why you guys are hatin'
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On June 26 2013 00:01 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 23:56 thenexusp wrote:On June 25 2013 22:50 Sandster wrote:
At ~Gold 5 elo, people don't understand split pushing that well. Team don't respond well to it, and many teams don't know how to play with a split pusher on the team. If you split push too much there's a very high chance your team will be caught in a 4v5 simply because they don't understand the importance of warding and exerting pressure (without dying) to multiple lanes.
This applies even when it's not pure split pushing. There are so many times when you say you'll go take a creep wave later in the game, tell team "don't get caught", split off from the team for <30 seconds, and your team is completely dead. I don't know why but people love to get caught out (and it's partially due to poor warding). Don't feel bad, this happens to CLG as well Isn't that what he said ?
Yeah I think he said it was at Gold 5.
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On June 26 2013 00:08 Ketara wrote:
For a small correction, the idea wasn't to have a high KDA, it was to have the least deaths on the team. IE, not do stupid shit as much. High kills not important, low deaths important.
It worked for me, Navi coached me for a day and I went from Silver 1 to Gold 1 in less than a month. Don't know why you guys are hatin'
High kda pretty much is same with low deaths.5/1/5 is average stats but is 10kda and you can easily achieve it in a standart game while 15/3/15 seems rather impossible :D.
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On June 26 2013 00:08 Ketara wrote:
For a small correction, the idea wasn't to have a high KDA, it was to have the least deaths on the team. IE, not do stupid shit as much. High kills not important, low deaths important.
It worked for me, Navi coached me for a day and I went from Silver 1 to Gold 1 in less than a month. Don't know why you guys are hatin'
Does it depend on role though? As a carry you def want to die as few times as possible, but there are some tankier roles that HAVE to be in the middle of the other team to do their jobs. Obviously you still want to minimize deaths, but sometimes it's inevitable you die for your team, and if you back out too early then you're not doing your job. Or as a support I want to minimize deaths but I will gladly die to keep my adc alive 9 times out of 10.
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EPT
