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On June 21 2013 03:41 Alaric wrote:
How can't Jayce poke? He'll just take more time to kill you because he can't mindlessly spam his shit over and over and over with super low cooldowns, but remember when most of the people here said that they hated Nid spears?
Jayce's EQ combo does only a bit less damage (about same base and scaling, but AP easier to come by than bonus AD), but has the same range, faster projectile speed, is AoE, and he actually has other tools than that.
Oh, his R MS buff and accel gate make him unchasable too.
lol nid spears do twice as much dmg as jayce Q, they are also magic which is way harder to itemize against plus nidalee will be able to throw 2+ spears in the same time jayce can just e/q once
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Accelerated Physical Damage: 84 / 161 / 238 / 315 / 392 (+ 168% Bonus AD)
Minimum Magic Damage: 55 / 95 / 140 / 185 / 230 (+ 65% AP)
Maximum Magic Damage: 138 / 238 / 350 / 463 / 575 (+ 162.5% AP)
Jayce does it from point-blank on a 10s cd once both are maxed, Nidalee needs the full range to do it, and it's on a 6s cd.
Considering that both tend to get blue buff, and Jayce brutaliser on top of it, it's safe to assume that even though Nidalee tosses javelins more often, the difference isn't too big (and the javelin aren't AoE). There's also a faster missile speed on Jayce's EQ, and he can buff his MS by using the gate himself.
(If we want to nitpick, it also reveals fog of war when it detonates on a target.)
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Well on the PBE Jayce's gate got a 16 sec CD now, which should alleviate the problems.
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On June 21 2013 04:07 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +Minimum Magic Damage: 55 / 95 / 140 / 185 / 230 (+ 65% AP)
Maximum Magic Damage: 138 / 238 / 350 / 463 / 575 (+ 162.5% AP) Jayce does it from point-blank on a 10s cd once both are maxed, Nidalee needs the full range to do it, and it's on a 6s cd. Considering that both tend to get blue buff, and Jayce brutaliser on top of it, it's safe to assume that even though Nidalee tosses javelins more often, the difference isn't too big (and the javelin aren't AoE). There's also a faster missile speed on Jayce's EQ, and he can buff his MS by using the gate himself. (If we want to nitpick, it also reveals fog of war when it detonates on a target.)
Well, to be honest Nidalee is pretty fucking bullshit as well.
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On June 21 2013 03:56 kongoline wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 03:41 Alaric wrote:
How can't Jayce poke? He'll just take more time to kill you because he can't mindlessly spam his shit over and over and over with super low cooldowns, but remember when most of the people here said that they hated Nid spears?
Jayce's EQ combo does only a bit less damage (about same base and scaling, but AP easier to come by than bonus AD), but has the same range, faster projectile speed, is AoE, and he actually has other tools than that.
Oh, his R MS buff and accel gate make him unchasable too. lol nid spears do twice as much dmg as jayce Q, they are also magic which is way harder to itemize against plus nidalee will be able to throw 2+ spears in the same time jayce can just e/q once
AOE man, AOE.
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On June 21 2013 04:07 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +Minimum Magic Damage: 55 / 95 / 140 / 185 / 230 (+ 65% AP)
Maximum Magic Damage: 138 / 238 / 350 / 463 / 575 (+ 162.5% AP) Jayce does it from point-blank on a 10s cd once both are maxed, Nidalee needs the full range to do it, and it's on a 6s cd. Considering that both tend to get blue buff, and Jayce brutaliser on top of it, it's safe to assume that even though Nidalee tosses javelins more often, the difference isn't too big (and the javelin aren't AoE). There's also a faster missile speed on Jayce's EQ, and he can buff his MS by using the gate himself. (If we want to nitpick, it also reveals fog of war when it detonates on a target.)
LOL dude ur not getting near as much AD as AP, on pbe jayce eq has 16s cd while nid has 6sec spear that means she can poke 2.8 as much as he does no matter how much cdr they both have (assuming its even number), as for the projectile speed i've never noticed much of an difference i would say invisible spears are way more annoying
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As much as I love the fascinatingly rare conversation about why we don't like Jayce, lets not start our arguments with "LOL dude ur", because it's going to make people stop reading x.x
But I do agree that Jayce is too strong and needs to be nerfed. Nerfing him along with the tear nerf is going full olaf, especially considering Jayce can't just form-change willy-nilly in lane or he just dies to an all-in. He also has big weaknesses at champions with a strong ult and cc at level 6, Like Ryze or Sejuani.
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Ok lets nerf nidalee too cause fuck her. Problem solved!
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United States23745 Posts
On June 21 2013 04:28 kongoline wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 04:07 Alaric wrote:Accelerated Physical Damage: 84 / 161 / 238 / 315 / 392 (+ 168% Bonus AD) Minimum Magic Damage: 55 / 95 / 140 / 185 / 230 (+ 65% AP)
Maximum Magic Damage: 138 / 238 / 350 / 463 / 575 (+ 162.5% AP) Jayce does it from point-blank on a 10s cd once both are maxed, Nidalee needs the full range to do it, and it's on a 6s cd. Considering that both tend to get blue buff, and Jayce brutaliser on top of it, it's safe to assume that even though Nidalee tosses javelins more often, the difference isn't too big (and the javelin aren't AoE). There's also a faster missile speed on Jayce's EQ, and he can buff his MS by using the gate himself. (If we want to nitpick, it also reveals fog of war when it detonates on a target.) LOL dude ur not getting near as much AD as AP, on pbe jayce eq has 16s cd while nid has 6sec spear that means she can poke 2.8 as much as he does no matter how much cdr they both have (assuming its even number), as for the projectile speed i never noticed much of an difference i would say invisible spears are way more annoying
I think you're glossing over the variable damage on Nid's spears. Jayce always chunks hard, Nid relies on hitting max range spears to do a lot of her poke. Also the missile speed difference is big even if you haven't noticed it, shockwaves coming out of no where are just as annoying as spears coming out of no where. Plus Jayce brings a lot of to a team fight than Nid so just comparing their poke is only part of the story anyway.
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he was comparing only q skills when i said hes wrong he started to bring char utility crap, i always laugh when people say jayce Q is superior at every aspect to nidalee spears which is complete bullshit
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On June 21 2013 04:33 DrunkenOne wrote:
Ok lets nerf nidalee too cause fuck her. Problem solved!
Why stop there? Let's nerf everything until your only two choices are big melee minion or big caster minion!
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On June 21 2013 04:42 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 04:33 DrunkenOne wrote:
Ok lets nerf nidalee too cause fuck her. Problem solved! Why stop there? Let's nerf everything until your only two choices are big melee minion or big caster minion!
Sona is already in the game.
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On June 21 2013 04:44 Sandster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 04:42 obesechicken13 wrote:On June 21 2013 04:33 DrunkenOne wrote:
Ok lets nerf nidalee too cause fuck her. Problem solved! Why stop there? Let's nerf everything until your only two choices are big melee minion or big caster minion! Sona is already in the game.
She's one of the best supports too. We better ban her out, leaving only big melee minion.
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On June 21 2013 04:44 Sandster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 04:42 obesechicken13 wrote:On June 21 2013 04:33 DrunkenOne wrote:
Ok lets nerf nidalee too cause fuck her. Problem solved! Why stop there? Let's nerf everything until your only two choices are big melee minion or big caster minion! Sona is already in the game.
Wrong, Sona has LESS health than a melee minion. Needs to be buffed up to minion standards.
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It's easier for Nid to get in position for spears because of her passive, cougar MS buff, and Pounce. She'll hit harder if people walk on her traps. She's got a heal, etc.
But when it comes to poke, I'm using Nidalee because people complained a lot about AP Nidalee not for her heal, not for her 40% resistances reduction along with vision on traps, not for her cougarQ execute, but because of how hard those spears destroy people. Turns out Jayce isn't so far off, especially considering the range (superior missile speed and damage not relying on being far from your target makes it generally easier for Jayce to hit/harder for the enemy team to juke/dodge too).
And to be honest, I'd rate Jayce ahead for the other aspects too (easier time top than her, doesn't need to go melee to shove the wave, strong pre-6 all-ins, safer pre-6 too, cc, more versatile itemisation, team disengage, etc.), but we weren't talking about those.
That being said, I was talking about current Jayce and I agree that the E cd will help a lot, both by making him less oppressive (reducing Kha'Zix's W damage isn't that big either since he can still spam it 2-3 times more to make up for it). Considering how fast he kills towers, creep waves, objectives, etc. he carries considerable momentum and having such a low cd on his poke was giving no respite to the enemy team. I know suffocating is part of the strategies and stuff, but it was simply obnoxious to deal with coming from a single opponent.
Now he'll have more trouble (though with some CDR it should be alleviated, I'd expect such a change to mostly affect him pre-level 7-8, past that point he should have blue buff or CDR items often enough to make it more bearrable), and more importantly using his combo to harass you or shove the wave will potentially open him up for aggression or a gank because even if he switches to melee, knocks you away and switches back to range for the MS buff, he won't have accel gate immediatly available to pretend that your jungler was never there.
Regarding the Tear changes, weren't they all reverted apart from the transformation thing?
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On June 21 2013 04:51 GhandiEAGLE wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 04:44 Sandster wrote:On June 21 2013 04:42 obesechicken13 wrote:On June 21 2013 04:33 DrunkenOne wrote:
Ok lets nerf nidalee too cause fuck her. Problem solved! Why stop there? Let's nerf everything until your only two choices are big melee minion or big caster minion! Sona is already in the game. Wrong, Sona has LESS health than a melee minion. Needs to be buffed up to minion standards.
Sona's ranged so she gets caster minion health, not melee minion health
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By the way, built correctly, how good of a splitpusher is Jayce?
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On June 21 2013 04:59 cLutZ wrote:
By the way, built correctly, how good of a splitpusher is Jayce?
He destroys towers and waves. Also has gate/ulti ms buff to get away if he has any ward coverage. It's just a question of would you need the poke of him in your team and get a better splitpusher or is it fine if he's not poking away.
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The tear nerf was enough IMO. Why does riot feel the need to go all out on nerfs in one shot instead of several smaller ones if the first one doesn't fix the problem
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Aren't these just on PBE...?
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EPT
