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On June 21 2013 00:09 kainzero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 23:49 Vanka wrote:On June 20 2013 18:16 Seuss wrote:On June 20 2013 17:35 caelym wrote:On June 20 2013 17:09 mr_tolkien wrote:On June 20 2013 17:03 Seuss wrote:
The two Tolkiens who post here know what I'm talking about. Seriously. Everytime I see his posts I'm like «wtf». I'm confused. + Show Spoiler +Seuss' Summoner Name = Montegomery (AKA Monte) In other news, I've come to the conclusion that before the end of the Summer Split we'll see the level 1 donation of a jungle buff to a lane become standard or at least common. The reasons are fairly straightforward: - Just the buff monster (i.e. Ancient Golem or Lizard Elder) is now sufficient to instantly hit level 2.
- Being up an entire level on your laning opponent is huge. It's the whole reason the jungle was changed in the first place.
- It will only take the jungler an additional 30 seconds to reach level 3, assuming they simply clear small camps instead of contesting the enemy jungle. Their map presence is essentially intact, just delayed slightly. Given how many lane swap scenarios involve junglers rushing out of the jungle to support embattled lanes, this seems a small price to pay.
There are other reasons, but those are the big ones. So long as a jungle champion constitutes a threat without red buff or can easily clear without blue, which basically means every currently popular LCS pick, this strategy involves minimal sacrifices for big rewards. A couple pages late, but this makes me wonder if there are 1v2 picks with strong enough allins to solo kill an ad-support with red elixer and instant level 2. Forcing cautious play in a 2v1 situation in the fast tower push meta would shake things up a little, to say the least. There were already 1v2 strats in China where the off-laner would take a camp+buff and start at level 2. I don't think I saw any all-ins, though. I imagine that bush control and 4 summoner spells had something to do with it.
Pretty much. To successfully 1v2 you have to kill someone through Exhaust or Ignite, Barrier, and Flash plus whatever crowd control they have and still have enough health to either kill or run away from the other person. Basically, your opponents have to misplay pretty badly.
But you could follow Ketara's suggestion and all in with a super fast jungle gank. 2v2 where both champions on one side have a full level advantage is nasty.
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On June 21 2013 01:50 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 00:09 kainzero wrote:On June 20 2013 23:49 Vanka wrote:On June 20 2013 18:16 Seuss wrote:On June 20 2013 17:35 caelym wrote:On June 20 2013 17:09 mr_tolkien wrote:On June 20 2013 17:03 Seuss wrote:
The two Tolkiens who post here know what I'm talking about. Seriously. Everytime I see his posts I'm like «wtf». I'm confused. + Show Spoiler +Seuss' Summoner Name = Montegomery (AKA Monte) In other news, I've come to the conclusion that before the end of the Summer Split we'll see the level 1 donation of a jungle buff to a lane become standard or at least common. The reasons are fairly straightforward: - Just the buff monster (i.e. Ancient Golem or Lizard Elder) is now sufficient to instantly hit level 2.
- Being up an entire level on your laning opponent is huge. It's the whole reason the jungle was changed in the first place.
- It will only take the jungler an additional 30 seconds to reach level 3, assuming they simply clear small camps instead of contesting the enemy jungle. Their map presence is essentially intact, just delayed slightly. Given how many lane swap scenarios involve junglers rushing out of the jungle to support embattled lanes, this seems a small price to pay.
There are other reasons, but those are the big ones. So long as a jungle champion constitutes a threat without red buff or can easily clear without blue, which basically means every currently popular LCS pick, this strategy involves minimal sacrifices for big rewards. A couple pages late, but this makes me wonder if there are 1v2 picks with strong enough allins to solo kill an ad-support with red elixer and instant level 2. Forcing cautious play in a 2v1 situation in the fast tower push meta would shake things up a little, to say the least. There were already 1v2 strats in China where the off-laner would take a camp+buff and start at level 2. I don't think I saw any all-ins, though. I imagine that bush control and 4 summoner spells had something to do with it. Pretty much. To successfully 1v2 you have to kill someone through Exhaust or Ignite, Barrier, and Flash plus whatever crowd control they have and still have enough health to either kill or run away from the other person. Basically, your opponents have to misplay pretty badly. But you could follow Ketara's suggestion and all in with a super fast jungle gank. 2v2 where both champions on one side have a full level advantage is nasty.
I could only see it working with champs that have stealth at level 2.
So that leaves EveTwitch and Shaco capable of doing it.
Otherwise you're never going to get past tri-ward and river ward. Shaco wouldn't even work due to his cloud.
Random:
Something I've noticed is that I tend to dislike when Riot makes the game easier but I want to get handheld in things that I find difficult like school.
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On June 21 2013 01:50 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 00:09 kainzero wrote:On June 20 2013 23:49 Vanka wrote:On June 20 2013 18:16 Seuss wrote:On June 20 2013 17:35 caelym wrote:On June 20 2013 17:09 mr_tolkien wrote:On June 20 2013 17:03 Seuss wrote:
The two Tolkiens who post here know what I'm talking about. Seriously. Everytime I see his posts I'm like «wtf». I'm confused. + Show Spoiler +Seuss' Summoner Name = Montegomery (AKA Monte) In other news, I've come to the conclusion that before the end of the Summer Split we'll see the level 1 donation of a jungle buff to a lane become standard or at least common. The reasons are fairly straightforward: - Just the buff monster (i.e. Ancient Golem or Lizard Elder) is now sufficient to instantly hit level 2.
- Being up an entire level on your laning opponent is huge. It's the whole reason the jungle was changed in the first place.
- It will only take the jungler an additional 30 seconds to reach level 3, assuming they simply clear small camps instead of contesting the enemy jungle. Their map presence is essentially intact, just delayed slightly. Given how many lane swap scenarios involve junglers rushing out of the jungle to support embattled lanes, this seems a small price to pay.
There are other reasons, but those are the big ones. So long as a jungle champion constitutes a threat without red buff or can easily clear without blue, which basically means every currently popular LCS pick, this strategy involves minimal sacrifices for big rewards. A couple pages late, but this makes me wonder if there are 1v2 picks with strong enough allins to solo kill an ad-support with red elixer and instant level 2. Forcing cautious play in a 2v1 situation in the fast tower push meta would shake things up a little, to say the least. There were already 1v2 strats in China where the off-laner would take a camp+buff and start at level 2. I don't think I saw any all-ins, though. I imagine that bush control and 4 summoner spells had something to do with it. Pretty much. To successfully 1v2 you have to kill someone through Exhaust or Ignite, Barrier, and Flash plus whatever crowd control they have and still have enough health to either kill or run away from the other person. Basically, your opponents have to misplay pretty badly. But you could follow Ketara's suggestion and all in with a super fast jungle gank. 2v2 where both champions on one side have a full level advantage is nasty.
That's also what happened in a lot of Chinese games. Jungle would clear both buffs and head immediately to clear off the wave that was pushed to the off-laner's tower. It wasn't necessarily a gank, but it was virtually a double bruiser vs. ad/supp where the double bruisers had a level advantage. The outcome was really dependent on whether or not the double bruiser could successfully all-in and how hard the adc/supp could poke.
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On June 21 2013 01:41 Vanka wrote:
...
TL;DR if you invade blue side's red, give it to ignite red elixir full ad page 21/9/0 udyr, there is a chance that you may probably kill a lvl 1 sona with flash bear auto + tiger auto.
I need a life, but off that udyr killing sona model using that rune/mastery setup, the people you can for sure kill (assuming you are not exhausted, they don't have barrier or cleanse and they are only running armor yellows) with those two autos are:
Heimer, Zilean, no heal lvl 1 soraka, no heal lvl 1 sona, and no shield lvl 1 lux.
probablys: no shield lvl 1 janna, lissandra, ryze.
maybes: ez and vayne (again, if they don't take barrier or cleanse.)
It's almost foolproof, but I think there's a split second between your second auto and they being able to flash, but you should be catching them off guard and they literally only have one second to react. Also make sure you're in bear stance and your q is off cd before you flash in.
EDIT: completely forgot about Veteran's scars +30 health if they have 9 or more in the defense tree, welp, there goes all the certainty in my assertions.
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Are you also taking into account most supports run 1/13/16 masteries (taking hp/armor/mr and unyielding/block) with armor marks and seals?
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On June 21 2013 00:22 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 00:13 Dgiese wrote:On June 21 2013 00:08 Sandster wrote:On June 20 2013 23:30 Dgiese wrote:
Does everyone think Chaox would make a good caster... from the allstar interviews and previous experience a wet paper towel seems to have more personality / confidence. I'm sure he's a nice guy and stuff, but he seemed very soft spoken, Everyone loved it when he co-casted a game, because his game knowledge is so good. But you need to pair him with someone who's livelier, I agree. I mean let's face it, there's maybe 4 English commentators in the pro circuits that are good (MonteCristo, Jatt, Kobe, and even Phreak is up there). Everyone else is...pretty painful, especially if they were casting by themselves or not with one of those 4. Big reason I can't watch EU LCS. I would add Deman to that list. I enjoy his shoutcasting, I think the Jatt Deman pairing was very strong in terms of play by plays, and actual analysis. But I can see how Americans might not be used to / like his accent or mannerisms. Only thing I dislike about Deman is that he will get stuck on a phrase and use it in every scentence for a while. "3000 elo"
I rather like it. I mean, I understand it can sound corny and stuff, but having that kind of nicknames or references for players is also part of what creates legacy/storylines/whatever to make it more compelling and stuff. There'd be tons of references to HiyA as Magikarp during his games, or the way he opens his mouth when the game becomes frantic, it's part of the charm. 
Deman at least tries to set up his analytical co-caster with questions and formulaes (sp?) like "Tell us X, what about Y/what role does Y play in all that?", while Rivington tries to explain it himself and... well... generally doesn't go smoothly. :<
Doa's voice and accent make it so I've got a harder time making out his exact words, though I still get the gist of it without problems, which may explain why I don't find him really funny since it probably makes me miss a bunch of his references.
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On June 21 2013 00:32 Ophe wrote:
The reworked LeBlanc is up on the PBE now. I haven't played too much LeBlanc so I can't comment on balance, strength vs. current LeBlanc etc. Although I must say it was pretty nice not feeling forced to use the q + r combo. One can do pretty cool combos now, like q - w - e - ulti - q, using the second damage from the amplified e to proc the last q.
Any veteran LB'ers thoughts about her?
I am not a veteran, but I play her a bit. I dislike the direction they are taking her because it seems so...incoherent.
I get reducing the upfront sigil change and the rebalance to the proc, and I love the changes to Mimic. However those changes don't really address her in a coherent way.
Lowering the silence duration on SOS and Lowering the Root Duration on Ethereal chains is the opposite of what I wanted.
I wanted them to maker her a bit more Ahri-ish where you would try to fish for a hit with Chains, then be able to just go ham, or use E>R to consistently wield control over positioning in teamfights.
That Leblanc is getting attention is good, because the meta is strongly not in her favor, but these changes are weak fixes.
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leblanc is still retarded powerful early on why don't they just buff her scaling a bit
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The meta is about 5v5 team fights over major objectives. Any champion that doesn't perform well in 5v5 fights is not viable in the current meta. If Riot balances all champions to perform adeptly in 5v5 fights we can easily expect bland champions that are very similar to each other with very little unique play styles. If every champ must be viable in a 5v5 then riot basically forces a stale meta.
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I don't know about that...Zed isn't exactly a great 5v5 champion.
LB's other problem, besides not being good in larger fights, is that she can't push waves/turrets that well.
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Her E change is a huge buff.
Lb always had the highest base damage and ratio on a sing loo e target, but her potential is often unrealixed because she cant survive 2 seconds to sustain her leash.... so often she can at best do QRE then immediately run away.
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now when i think about jayce nerfs its huge and imo overkill, he will only be able to e/q once every 10secs with 40% cdr, its bad compared to other poke champs who can easily spam their spells twice as much, together with tear/manamune nerfs might actually kill jayce for good
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On June 21 2013 03:15 kongoline wrote:
now when i think about jayce nerfs its huge and imo overkill, he will only be able to e/q once every 10secs with 40% cdr, its bad compared to other poke champs who can easily spam their spells twice as much, together with tear/manamune nerfs might actually kill jayce for good
Other poke champions don't have the kind of disengage/utility Jayce has.
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No one has ever been afraid of a non-accel gated Q from Jayce. Unless it somehow gets buffed he'll be doing pathetic poke damage, average burst, no ult, and still low survivability outside of his knockback. Ouch.
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On June 21 2013 03:16 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 03:15 kongoline wrote:
now when i think about jayce nerfs its huge and imo overkill, he will only be able to e/q once every 10secs with 40% cdr, its bad compared to other poke champs who can easily spam their spells twice as much, together with tear/manamune nerfs might actually kill jayce for good Other poke champions don't have the kind of disengage/utility Jayce has.
lux has aoe shield more range and a bind wouldnt call it "less" utility, they nerf core of jayce to the ground its not like he can engage with hammer form and fight without poking which is going to be pathetic now
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On June 21 2013 03:12 Sandster wrote:
I don't know about that...Zed isn't exactly a great 5v5 champion.
LB's other problem, besides not being good in larger fights, is that she can't push waves/turrets that well.
But Zed provides 2 skills with AoE damage and the ability to assassinate a carry.
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On June 21 2013 03:10 Ghost-z wrote:
The meta is about 5v5 team fights over major objectives. Any champion that doesn't perform well in 5v5 fights is not viable in the current meta. If Riot balances all champions to perform adeptly in 5v5 fights we can easily expect bland champions that are very similar to each other with very little unique play styles. If every champ must be viable in a 5v5 then riot basically forces a stale meta.
The problem for Leblanc is she has no way to prevent 5v5 fights really. Zed can splitpush, Nidalee can splitpush or poke, etc.
Still a good champion though, no QQ from me about LeBlanc, because nothing is more fun than picking her into Karthus (even If I lose).
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On June 21 2013 03:24 Ghost-z wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 03:12 Sandster wrote:
I don't know about that...Zed isn't exactly a great 5v5 champion.
LB's other problem, besides not being good in larger fights, is that she can't push waves/turrets that well. But Zed provides 2 skills with AoE damage and the ability to assassinate a carry.
So does leblanc.
Zed's strength isn't solely based on his ability to instagib someone with ult, he's also a fantastic splitpusher and farmer. If assassination was the only thing needed for a champion to be picked you'd see a ton of veigar/lb and shit around.
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How can't Jayce poke? He'll just take more time to kill you because he can't mindlessly spam his shit over and over and over with super low cooldowns, but remember when most of the people here said that they hated Nid spears?
Jayce's EQ combo does only a bit less damage (about same base and scaling, but AP easier to come by than bonus AD), but has the same range, faster projectile speed, is AoE, and he actually has other tools than that.
Oh, his R MS buff and accel gate make him unchasable too.
^ LB takes more than 3s to kill you if she can't QRE and get you with the chain impact. Remember Pantheon and Talon being peelable and Kha'Zix able to WQauto during his jump for insta 100-0? Zed kills faster than LB in general and has sutain through autos, plus LB's damage is balanced with her W in mind, while she often uses it to reposition or gap close. Zed's W damage comes from his "Q bonus" and the passive AD, so in similar situations it doesn't lose as much burst as LB.
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On June 21 2013 02:44 Sandster wrote:
Are you also taking into account most supports run 1/13/16 masteries (taking hp/armor/mr and unyielding/block) with armor marks and seals?
I'm not calculating executioner for my sanity's sake, but you will do 470 damage to a sona without armor reds, which means you will kill a 1/8/21 sona who is running offensive reds and offensive or gp10 quints, but any more defensive masteries or runes you will not two shot (though if you can get that insecure third auto you would). If executioner does more than 15 damage, you'd kill a 1/13/16 sona, but I don't know how to calculate that for sure. I would think it is unlikely.
Assuming only armor yellows, a non-cloth armor start and 21/0/9 or 9/0/21, you will kill a mid lane ryze (474 damage to 446 health), you will kill a midlane lux (482 damage to 424 health), you will kill a TF (475 damage to 466). Again, this is without calculating executioner.
You will also kill heimer in almost all cases, and probably zilean too. Most likely you'd also kill anyone lvl 1 who isn't running flash because you can get a 3rd and 4th auto.
I'm not going to bother doing any more champs because I'm exhausted (and probably messed up some math somewhere), but the actual cheese strat takeaway is that if you start with a red pot jungle udyr with a instacast cc mid like annie or ryze and blow both your flashes, if you time it right, that should be (though it'd need testing how much offensive runing the udyr would need to commit to) an almost impossible fb to avoid, with the caveat that you don't know it's coming.
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EPT
