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On June 20 2013 21:49 zodde wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 20:04 mr_tolkien wrote:On June 20 2013 19:52 zodde wrote:As onesided as that was, I feel like you could have been in his jungle even more in the early stages of the game. As long as amumu is lvl1, he cant do anything to you. So even if lux or quinn comes, you just run away because it's pretty much a 1v1 (lvl 1 amumu doesn't count. I've been lvl 11-12 versus lvl 4-5 sometimes by just living in their jungle and letting my own team take my small camps. What's the program that edited the announcer btw? It's cool :D Yeah for Lux, but it's Quinn I was more worried about. She got a kill on Udyr early and I had no flash, so I really didn't want to risk giving her a double kill. A little bit of safety is never bad, and, well, they didn't get ONE buff in the game :D For the announcer, it's http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2629223The «cocococococombo breaker» instead of shutdowns is just so awesome <3 Yeah I guess so. But that just goes to show how good nunu is at counterjungling. You played it "safe" and "only" took all his buffs, instead of all his buffs and all his big monsters, and it still took him out of the game completely. If you get far enough ahead, you can actually just run around stealing ALL his jungle, and make sure he never gets any experience if he doesn't go leech some off a lane. And if your lanes happen to do good, the game can be 100% over even before 10 minutes game time.
The funniest thing about counter-jungling at low elo is when you take someones buff, 95% of the time they try to counter-jungle you back. I'm up a buff and a level on you mate and in my own jungle now with only the 1 buff left on the map to be at. Wise move.
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Tho the problem is how consistently and safely Nunu can do it, not that it can be done at all. In s1 counterjungling actually used to be a big thing, and in s2 there was all that M5 craze (even though it had more to do with map pressure, strong objective control and timed invades than simply counterjungling), but apart from that counterjungling was super limited because of how the value of camps was reduced.
I'd hope it isn't only limited to Nunu and counterjungling becomes more widespread an option again.
^ you know his smite is down and if you're fast enough he's had to lose HP/summoners to steal yours, tho, so if your lanes are stronger/pushed you can try something (or say their top laner took TP while yours has ignite or exhaust).
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On June 20 2013 22:06 Alaric wrote:
Tho the problem is how consistently and safely Nunu can do it, not that it can be done at all. In s1 counterjungling actually used to be a big thing, and in s2 there was all that M5 craze (even though it had more to do with map pressure, strong objective control and timed invades than simply counterjungling), but apart from that counterjungling was super limited because of how the value of camps was reduced.
I'd hope it isn't only limited to Nunu and counterjungling becomes more widespread an option again.
Absolutely agree. Nunu's playstyle is very fun, but it's not really fair that he's the only one that can do it that well. 600 consume vs 490 smite is retarded good, and BB + iceball makes him nigh impossible to catch when he goes for the counterjungle.
Having one or the other would be okay, but consume makes it impossible for the other jungler to really do anything, and the rest of his kit makes him too hard to pin down and kill.
^ you know his smite is down and if you're fast enough he's had to lose HP/summoners to steal yours, tho, so if your lanes are stronger/pushed you can try something (or say their top laner took TP while yours has ignite or exhaust).
In what way does it matter that his smite is down, when he has consume on a <15 second cooldown? If you try to invade his buffs, he will have a level advantage on the other jungler, and he will still have a 600+ consume versus your 500ish smite, and you're now in his jungle?
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Ah KT Fingerboom, the good ol days.
+ Show Spoiler +For those that don't know, KT Rolster used to be KTF MagicNs, and got renamed to...KT Fingerboom. Yeah that didn't last long.
I hope Chaox becomes a caster or analyst for Riot. He was very good the few times he co-casted games.
And yeah most people ~Gold V-II are pretty bad at Elise. But I'd argue many of them are just not good at top lane in general. I can't speak for mid since I rarely lane it, but top lane is full of people who have trade terribly or have awful gauges for all-in potentials, and pretty bad minion management as well. They also don't adapt their masteries/item builds, so even if they see a hard lane (like Pantheon) they still run 21/9 with DRing or flask start instead of 9/21 with cloth+5.
Of course there are exceptions but this is just my experience playing top around Gold V-II MMR. I will be the first to say that I know 2-3 champs better than most at my MMR, but if I try to expand my champion pool I'd be equally shitty in those things.
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My route when playing Udyr against a weak jungler early has been smiteless blue into red steal for ages. With the changes on buff exp, I'm definitely gonna do it again and again.
The only issue I've found with counterjungling heavily is that I don't find much time to help a lane going badly. Then the laner(s) rage because "no gank udyr" and a raging team isn't a sign of victory...
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The Elise I get at Silver I know about pressing R then right-clicking to automatically win any trade though. >.>
On June 20 2013 22:09 zodde wrote:
In what way does it matter that his smite is down, when he has consume on a <15 second cooldown? If you try to invade his buffs, he will have a level advantage on the other jungler, and he will still have a 600+ consume versus your 500ish smite, and you're now in his jungle?
Wasn't he talking about "counterjungling at low Elo" rather than specificly Nunu? If not then yeah, it's dumb to invade Nunu (or Trundle for that matter).
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On June 20 2013 21:43 Shikyo wrote:
What do people think of something like championselect.net?
I think that it's an all-right refresher on how certain matchups go but some things just make no sense(Lee Sin counters Evelynn because he has stealth reveal, really?)
Lee mid does counter mid Evelynn (this was Froggen's secret strat towards the end of s2)
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On June 20 2013 22:34 Alaric wrote:The Elise I get at Silver I know about pressing R then right-clicking to automatically win any trade though. >.> Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 22:09 zodde wrote:
In what way does it matter that his smite is down, when he has consume on a <15 second cooldown? If you try to invade his buffs, he will have a level advantage on the other jungler, and he will still have a 600+ consume versus your 500ish smite, and you're now in his jungle? Wasn't he talking about "counterjungling at low Elo" rather than specificly Nunu? If not then yeah, it's dumb to invade Nunu (or Trundle for that matter).
Might have misread, but it sounds like we're on the same page regarding nunu
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PS : Shyvana is VERY strong as well in the current jungle. Still above 60% win ratio with her <3
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On June 20 2013 22:59 mr_tolkien wrote:
PS : Shyvana is VERY strong as well in the current jungle. Still above 60% win ratio with her <3
Why do you say so? Is it just because of your win-rate? I ask because I used to love Shyv in Season 2 and I really want a reason to start using her again :D
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On June 20 2013 21:47 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 21:43 Shikyo wrote:
What do people think of something like championselect.net?
I think that it's an all-right refresher on how certain matchups go but some things just make no sense(Lee Sin counters Evelynn because he has stealth reveal, really?) On the one hand, I feel like it's like all guide sites: good to check out for a refresher (like you say), but bad to treat as gosple. On the other hand, I also believe that counters are nearly irrelevant up to a certain level of play, at which point you know them all anyways (one would hope). So idk overall. Counters are weird.
I find guides are useful when starting out but you have to learn what the items do for yourself and how skills level up. That way you can apply some form of reasoning and pick what suits the situation best instead of being stuck in this "this is the build I use" mentality.
When it comes to counters a lot of them aren't as "hard" as people believe I think. Sure X might beat Y in lane but if Y can make himself more useful outside of lane that fact could be meaningless as an example of a "counter" not working out. People just place so much emphasis on laning that they don't know how to influence the game without a laning advantage.
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"I may not gank like post-6 Malphite, but you can't 1v1 me if I decide to go say 'hi' and I farm so fast that it doesn't matter if I can't stop you from reaching tower, I'll have enough items to dive anyway" kind of deal I guess.
Shyvana is strong in 1v1, clears super fast and her ult's passive makes her pretty tanky, especially now that buying HP is so easy, so with the current jungler respawning faster she can more easily edge out junglers who try to farm but can't kill the camps as fast as they spawn anymore (and even worse for those who couldn't even pre-change) and in 2v2 situations she still isn't bad in a lot of cases, so even if your ganks aren't stellar you can countergank and apply map pressure with good warding.
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anyone know the rune/mastery setup ambition used in all stars vs china game 1?
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On June 20 2013 23:24 Alaric wrote:
"I may not gank like post-6 Malphite, but you can't 1v1 me if I decide to go say 'hi' and I farm so fast that it doesn't matter if I can't stop you from reaching tower, I'll have enough items to dive anyway" kind of deal I guess.
Shyvana is strong in 1v1, clears super fast and her ult's passive makes her pretty tanky, especially now that buying HP is so easy, so with the current jungler respawning faster she can more easily edge out junglers who try to farm but can't kill the camps as fast as they spawn anymore (and even worse for those who couldn't even pre-change) and in 2v2 situations she still isn't bad in a lot of cases, so even if your ganks aren't stellar you can countergank and apply map pressure with good warding.
Been trying her out in the jungle (keep in mind my jungling sucks), and I have to say, she clears faster than Phoenix Udyr.
So much goldddddd, and her damage is still naturally high.
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Does everyone think Chaox would make a good caster... from the allstar interviews and previous experience a wet paper towel seems to have more personality / confidence. I'm sure he's a nice guy and stuff, but he seemed very soft spoken,
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On June 20 2013 23:17 GettingIt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 22:59 mr_tolkien wrote:
PS : Shyvana is VERY strong as well in the current jungle. Still above 60% win ratio with her <3 Why do you say so? Is it just because of your win-rate? I ask because I used to love Shyv in Season 2 and I really want a reason to start using her again :D
A reason ? She's viable but not FotM, that's pretty much it. It's just like Annie mid. Nobody plays it but... It works really well.
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On June 20 2013 23:37 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 23:17 GettingIt wrote:On June 20 2013 22:59 mr_tolkien wrote:
PS : Shyvana is VERY strong as well in the current jungle. Still above 60% win ratio with her <3 Why do you say so? Is it just because of your win-rate? I ask because I used to love Shyv in Season 2 and I really want a reason to start using her again :D A reason ? She's viable but not FotM, that's pretty much it. It's just like Annie mid. Nobody plays it but... It works really well.
No one knowing how to play against Shyvana is probably half the reason.
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On June 20 2013 18:16 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 17:35 caelym wrote:On June 20 2013 17:09 mr_tolkien wrote:On June 20 2013 17:03 Seuss wrote:
The two Tolkiens who post here know what I'm talking about. Seriously. Everytime I see his posts I'm like «wtf». I'm confused. + Show Spoiler +Seuss' Summoner Name = Montegomery (AKA Monte) In other news, I've come to the conclusion that before the end of the Summer Split we'll see the level 1 donation of a jungle buff to a lane become standard or at least common. The reasons are fairly straightforward: - Just the buff monster (i.e. Ancient Golem or Lizard Elder) is now sufficient to instantly hit level 2.
- Being up an entire level on your laning opponent is huge. It's the whole reason the jungle was changed in the first place.
- It will only take the jungler an additional 30 seconds to reach level 3, assuming they simply clear small camps instead of contesting the enemy jungle. Their map presence is essentially intact, just delayed slightly. Given how many lane swap scenarios involve junglers rushing out of the jungle to support embattled lanes, this seems a small price to pay.
There are other reasons, but those are the big ones. So long as a jungle champion constitutes a threat without red buff or can easily clear without blue, which basically means every currently popular LCS pick, this strategy involves minimal sacrifices for big rewards.
A couple pages late, but this makes me wonder if there are 1v2 picks with strong enough allins to solo kill an ad-support with red elixer and instant level 2. Forcing cautious play in a 2v1 situation in the fast tower push meta would shake things up a little, to say the least.
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United States23745 Posts
On June 20 2013 20:41 JonGalt wrote:Hey it fits though. Arrows and bullets are similar. No idea what SKT is going to do. SKT 1der Boys and SKT 2mb Raiders
Terminator and Judgement Day forever.
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On June 20 2013 23:44 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 23:37 mr_tolkien wrote:On June 20 2013 23:17 GettingIt wrote:On June 20 2013 22:59 mr_tolkien wrote:
PS : Shyvana is VERY strong as well in the current jungle. Still above 60% win ratio with her <3 Why do you say so? Is it just because of your win-rate? I ask because I used to love Shyv in Season 2 and I really want a reason to start using her again :D A reason ? She's viable but not FotM, that's pretty much it. It's just like Annie mid. Nobody plays it but... It works really well. No one knowing how to play against Shyvana is probably half the reason.
Well no. Everybody learned to play against Shyvana in S2 :p You just have to learn how to play her, which means, being really abusive and acting like the whole map is yours. Works pretty well.
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EPT
