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United States23745 Posts
On April 10 2013 10:16 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 10:04 Slusher wrote:
Lets not twist the facts pre nerf olaf was retarded. They just nerfed every single peice of his kit as opposed to touching it up. Som Everybody was stacking health at the time, Warmogs first item before boots every game. They nerfed Olaf the same pathc they nerfed Warmogs. Then they nerfed Warmogs some more. And they forgot about Olaf.
Him becoming an unkillable monster and diving the ADC with impunity was more of a problem imo.
Edit: Although I guess BotRK hurts him now more so than the Warmogs nerf.
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On April 10 2013 09:21 Soloside wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 08:57 overt wrote:
Changing Muramana to deal physical makes it a lot more appealing on the people who would buy it the most. Although I dunno if you'd buy it on Ryze anymore now. Just a quick question, does sivir's W proc it on each target? If so, does it chunk 3% mana PER target? or just per cast? Might be pretty good on her. Oh, also would it work with corki's rockets as well?
Muramana will probably still be bad on ADCs because if you go manamune, or even just tear, you're going to be unable to trade with your opponent who got vamp while you bought tear or vamp+BF while you got manamune. Maybe if you're laning against someone who's weaker than you or something and who can't really pressure you even if you go manamune but then it becomes a question of what ADCs would benefit from delaying real damage for what probably won't be more damage later in the game.
The only ADCs I could see muramana working on are Urgot (who isn't even really an ADC) and maybe Ezreal because of his on-hits with Q (trinity force+muramana sounds like really strong poke). Urgot already built manamune semi-often so I'm sure this change helps him. I doubt muramana on Ezreal will be a real thing though. Although muramana is less appealing on AP Ez now.
tl;dr
In my opinion no ADCs are going to start building muramana. This really only benefits people like Kha/Jayce.
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Reallistically speaking the nerf hurt his laning much, much more, since he wants to spend a lot of his ult time on the carry anyway, and if he starts throwing his axe on somebody who's close to him the diminishing slow won't matter as much (he'll be able to refresh it before it becomes significant). However it means that champs that stayed afar from him are much harder to engage on in lane, because you'll have to cover more distance to catch back up (or in other words hit more consecutive axes), and you'll spend most of your time there without your ult activated, which tend to reduce his gank support, aggression capability, and overall damage a lot.
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I rushed Tear a couple of times on Ezreal and vs some match ups it's really fun if you're winning the lane and literally never get close enough for them to auto attack you. But in the land of Draven, Caitlyn and Varus - All insanely strong early game champs - it's kind of meh. I'll give 19 armour pen Muramana + Botrk + Trin Force + Last Whisper build a chance though.
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Eh, if you buy a tear in lane you're not going to be playing the same lane the same way as if you bought a vamp scepter, you're just going to be spamming spells and pushing the lane.
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On April 10 2013 10:30 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 09:21 Soloside wrote:On April 10 2013 08:57 overt wrote:
Changing Muramana to deal physical makes it a lot more appealing on the people who would buy it the most. Although I dunno if you'd buy it on Ryze anymore now. Just a quick question, does sivir's W proc it on each target? If so, does it chunk 3% mana PER target? or just per cast? Might be pretty good on her. Oh, also would it work with corki's rockets as well? Muramana will probably still be bad on ADCs because if you go manamune, or even just tear, you're going to be unable to trade with your opponent who got vamp while you bought tear or vamp+BF while you got manamune. Maybe if you're laning against someone who's weaker than you or something and who can't really pressure you even if you go manamune but then it becomes a question of what ADCs would benefit from delaying real damage for what probably won't be more damage later in the game. The only ADCs I could see muramana working on are Urgot (who isn't even really an ADC) and maybe Ezreal because of his on-hits with Q (trinity force+muramana sounds like really strong poke). Urgot already built manamune semi-often so I'm sure this change helps him. I doubt muramana on Ezreal will be a real thing though. Although muramana is less appealing on AP Ez now. tl;dr In my opinion no ADCs are going to start building muramana. This really only benefits people like Kha/Jayce.
Muramana procs on single target spells, so I'd guess it wouldn't, or just only the initial target (same way Brand's pyroclasm works, sort of)
Tear in 2v1 lane switches maybe? Spam real hard, push down tower real fast.
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On April 10 2013 09:32 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 09:21 Soloside wrote:On April 10 2013 08:57 overt wrote:
Changing Muramana to deal physical makes it a lot more appealing on the people who would buy it the most. Although I dunno if you'd buy it on Ryze anymore now. Just a quick question, does sivir's W proc it on each target? If so, does it chunk 3% mana PER target? or just per cast? Might be pretty good on her. Oh, also would it work with corki's rockets as well? Sivir's W only applies on hit effects on the initial target so I'd imagine Muramana doesn't proc per target. Only on the first target. Corki's rockets have never applied on hit effects and are aoe. So Muramana shouldn't proc on it. Pretty sure Thresh was designed as a support.
So how doe ryze's Q work with manamura or like syndra's ulti?
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Looking forward to nobody playing Akali for the next 6 months.
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Finland33997 Posts
On April 10 2013 09:02 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 08:57 overt wrote:
Changing Muramana to deal physical makes it a lot more appealing on the people who would buy it the most. Although I dunno if you'd buy it on Ryze anymore now. Yeah, indirect buff to Kha and Jayce, as if they need it.
On one hand, it was really good having a magic dmg proc on Kha'Zix against the 300 armor + no mres tanks, Muramana really helped you duel against them.
On the other hand, EQauto now procs 5 stacks of Black Cleaver instantly... So it's a buff against anything but mass armor tanks(Not exactly your primary targets).
On April 10 2013 11:01 Soloside wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 09:32 Ryuu314 wrote:On April 10 2013 09:21 Soloside wrote:On April 10 2013 08:57 overt wrote:
Changing Muramana to deal physical makes it a lot more appealing on the people who would buy it the most. Although I dunno if you'd buy it on Ryze anymore now. Just a quick question, does sivir's W proc it on each target? If so, does it chunk 3% mana PER target? or just per cast? Might be pretty good on her. Oh, also would it work with corki's rockets as well? Sivir's W only applies on hit effects on the initial target so I'd imagine Muramana doesn't proc per target. Only on the first target. Corki's rockets have never applied on hit effects and are aoe. So Muramana shouldn't proc on it. Pretty sure Thresh was designed as a support. So how doe ryze's Q work with manamura or like syndra's ulti?
Ryze Q works normally for Muramana, procs it once for the target you hit. Syndra ult procs Muramana 3-7 times depending on your orbs.
Syndra 7 orb ult with Muramana is perhaps the highest burst in the game, although that got worse with the change to physical. Oh although the cast time is such that Fiddlestick's ult -> fear -> drain will probably still have a higher single target burst. (Lol at a 1625 + 2.25 dmg ult, if he was a new champion that was released everyone would totally jump on those ratios).
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Random dumb question:
Can really big targets get hit by more than one of Ashe's arrows in volley? Like if a 4K hp Zac or 6 stack Cho stood right in front, would he block the whole thing?
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On April 10 2013 08:35 zulu_nation8 wrote:
thresh is the most OP champion in a long time and is pretty much the only perm ban in blind games where you dont know the opponent as in when you cant target ban.
I'm sorry, call me bad but I don't see how he's that good.
I mean lantern gank setups are really fucking good, Box is pretty strong in AOE team comps, and he has a ton of opportunities for outplays, but that OP???
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Hmm, muramana dead on Ryze.
The Akali changes are gonna annoy me a whole lot when playing her. Her early lane was hard enough as is and I already had a tendency to waste ult charges. Will have to see if I have to drop her and pick up Khazix instead.
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Thresh is pretty bad in the wrong hands idk, like he's incredibly strong but not for every player.
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On April 10 2013 11:11 sung_moon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 08:35 zulu_nation8 wrote:
thresh is the most OP champion in a long time and is pretty much the only perm ban in blind games where you dont know the opponent as in when you cant target ban. I'm sorry, call me bad but I don't see how he's that good. I mean lantern gank setups are really fucking good, Box is pretty strong in AOE team comps, and he has a ton of opportunities for outplays, but that OP???
he can just win lanes by himself and outtrade everyone, and lantern ganks. It's pretty op...
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Finland33997 Posts
On April 10 2013 11:11 sung_moon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 08:35 zulu_nation8 wrote:
thresh is the most OP champion in a long time and is pretty much the only perm ban in blind games where you dont know the opponent as in when you cant target ban. I'm sorry, call me bad but I don't see how he's that good. I mean lantern gank setups are really fucking good, Box is pretty strong in AOE team comps, and he has a ton of opportunities for outplays, but that OP???
Lantern ganks are the obvious ones. Then there's the 3 billion year stun hook combo and Thresh himself dealing more DMG than many ADCs(and more DMG than like Sona), AoE shield, Lantern saves and harrass(throwing lantern at enemy tower -> having your mage go really far and spam all his skills and lantern away sure makes sense), being really tanky for free, extremely powerful initiation ult that makes Blitzcrank's look like junk... Your lane wins every 2v2 committment and you harrass better than anything ... Hmm. As long as the team knows how to utilize his stuff they need to try really hard to lose if the Thresh is good.
And of course the "oh I got caught 1v5 but thresh threw a lantern from around a screen away, luckily I can now escape vs 5 people for free"
Oh I'm happy about the Akali nerfs. Really dislike how I need to buy a pink ward as my first items to prevent myself getting allined at 6 no matter how far ahead I initially am. Now her laning should be just about as bad as it should, but still should be able to accomplish something lategame(more overall dmg after 300AP).
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On April 10 2013 11:11 sung_moon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 08:35 zulu_nation8 wrote:
thresh is the most OP champion in a long time and is pretty much the only perm ban in blind games where you dont know the opponent as in when you cant target ban. I'm sorry, call me bad but I don't see how he's that good. I mean lantern gank setups are really fucking good, Box is pretty strong in AOE team comps, and he has a ton of opportunities for outplays, but that OP???
Thresh is only OP outside of NA iirc
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I honestly think the 60% sprint on rank 1 of Karma E will make her nearly ungankable. She's already really hard to catch and harass out with only 1 or 2 points in it, this is going to be hilarious.
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Finland33997 Posts
On April 10 2013 11:25 Requizen wrote:
I honestly think the 60% sprint on rank 1 of Karma E will make her nearly ungankable. She's already really hard to catch and harass out with only 1 or 2 points in it, this is going to be hilarious.
Speedup is the worst escape in the game, and it's only 1.5 seconds. You can think of it as a ~600 unit leap over 1.5 seconds that cannot go over walls, I guess. I don't see how that escape's considered any good among escapes in general to be honest.
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United States23745 Posts
On April 10 2013 11:28 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 11:25 Requizen wrote:
I honestly think the 60% sprint on rank 1 of Karma E will make her nearly ungankable. She's already really hard to catch and harass out with only 1 or 2 points in it, this is going to be hilarious. Speedup is the worst escape in the game, and it's only 1.5 seconds. You can think of it as a ~60 unit leap over 1.5 seconds that cannot go over walls, I guess. I don't see how that escape's considered any good among escapes in general to be honest.
As long as you are warding speed ups are fine for avoiding ganks in lane, which I think is what he's talking about.
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EPT
