|
United States47024 Posts
On April 07 2013 17:02 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 17:00 chalice wrote:
anyone that can afford 2550 on ad and lifesteal is going to buy a bt or botrk instead. Junglers? It's 20% CDR and health as well.
I would argue that top laners are also typically too selfish with their item choices atm and could get it as well.
Particularly with 1v2 lanes, the income difference between junglers and top laners isn't that large (it's pretty much the same during laning phase, and top laners get allocated more farm later because teams choose to give it to them, not because they need it more or are in a better position to take it), and the types of champions that get played in both roles tend to have somewhat similar kits (and there's a lot of overlap even in specific champions). But for some reason junglers are expected to get all team items while the top laner gets to itemize entirely selfishly when realistically splitting the load would be better (stronger item timings earlier, not putting all your eggs in one basket for important team effects).
A jungle Xin is expected to get Locket Bulwark but a lane Xin that may not even be seeing more farm is ok getting BC/Mogs/BotRK/etc? How does that make sense?
|
On April 07 2013 17:02 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 17:00 chalice wrote:
anyone that can afford 2550 on ad and lifesteal is going to buy a bt or botrk instead. Junglers? It's 20% CDR and health as well.
Junglers are almost as poor as the support.
|
On April 07 2013 17:41 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 17:02 sylverfyre wrote:On April 07 2013 17:00 chalice wrote:
anyone that can afford 2550 on ad and lifesteal is going to buy a bt or botrk instead. Junglers? It's 20% CDR and health as well. I would argue that top laners are also typically too selfish with their item choices atm and could get it as well. Particularly with 1v2 lanes, the income difference between junglers and top laners isn't that large (it's pretty much the same during laning phase, and top laners get allocated more farm later because teams choose to give it to them, not because they need it more or are in a better position to take it), and the types of champions that get played in both roles tend to have somewhat similar kits (and there's a lot of overlap even in specific champions). But for some reason junglers are expected to get all team items while the top laner gets to itemize entirely selfishly when realistically splitting the load would be better (stronger item timings earlier, not putting all your eggs in one basket for important team effects). A jungle Xin is expected to get Locket Bulwark but a lane Xin that may not even be seeing more farm is ok getting BC/Mogs/BotRK/etc? How does that make sense?
Its not even like building unselfishly leaves you gutted for stats anyway.
Your typical AD solo laner going to be pushing for like BT+Warmogs by mid game. Thats +1000 HP, +100 AD, and 12% lifesteal.
Say you spend that 6k gold on BC+Zekes+redpot instead. Thats (200+250+235) 685 HP, (50+15+20) 85 AD, (10+20) 30% CDR, 10 flat ArPen, and the BC shred and Zekes Aura. You literally only lose 300 HP and 15 AD, and gain CDR, flat pen, and thats without even taking into account how the aura's help your team.
Now instead of your AD having to have BT+LW, they can have just IE+Shiv/PD. Call me crazy, but that seems way stronger to me.
|
On one hand I'm really enjoying playing support, on the other I hate it.
I like seeing the ADC gain an advantage, I like counterwarding and warding important spots, giving the ADC farm and protecting his farming and so on. However, it feels just so invisible. When something goes wrong it's always the support's fault, when the support does well and the ADC goes 8-0 it's the ADC who carried. Even though I'd really like to try to learn to play support more seriously and get better at it, I'm having a really tough time keeping myself motivated - I can only take so many games where no one ever appreciates anything and I find myself calling solo mid or top after a while.
I guess what I'm after is: How do I keep myself motivated for practicing playing support in solo queue?
|
On April 07 2013 18:49 Shikyo wrote:
On one hand I'm really enjoying playing support, on the other I hate it.
I like seeing the ADC gain an advantage, I like counterwarding and warding important spots, giving the ADC farm and protecting his farming and so on. However, it feels just so invisible. When something goes wrong it's always the support's fault, when the support does well and the ADC goes 8-0 it's the ADC who carried. Even though I'd really like to try to learn to play support more seriously and get better at it, I'm having a really tough time keeping myself motivated - I can only take so many games where no one ever appreciates anything and I find myself calling solo mid or top after a while.
I guess what I'm after is: How do I keep myself motivated for practicing playing support in solo queue?
o.O it's weird because i always get recognition for being a good support and ABSOLUTELY no fault unless i do something blatant like flash forward to die in my games lol. just play for the fun of the game. why bother caring about whether or not people recognize your plays whether or not you play support? if you know you're doing something good just know it, do it more and win more games by doing good things.
|
Support is so fun. It's like playing an entirely different game. I've been playing a shit ton of Lux support, love it.
|
About the winrates, janna has always had high winrate. Sona has been fucking strong since forever but nobody notices because all her shit is in small doses, she actually out damages every support and also has good auras a decent heal and a great ult.
Fiddle has a ridiculous amount of cc but he's awkward to play but the people who do usually do pretty well at least in solo queue.
Scip did really well with rammus and he's great against assassins because of 3 second taunt +armour debuff and his r does lots of damage but he has weaknesses so I'm also a bit surprised he's one of the top winrates.
|
So how exactly does the Fizz lvl 2 cheese strategy work, again? Which runes, which masteries, which skills, which sequence? Seems to be WQ -> ignite etc, do you also get exhaust?
|
|
|
On April 07 2013 18:49 Shikyo wrote:
On one hand I'm really enjoying playing support, on the other I hate it.
I like seeing the ADC gain an advantage, I like counterwarding and warding important spots, giving the ADC farm and protecting his farming and so on. However, it feels just so invisible. When something goes wrong it's always the support's fault, when the support does well and the ADC goes 8-0 it's the ADC who carried. Even though I'd really like to try to learn to play support more seriously and get better at it, I'm having a really tough time keeping myself motivated - I can only take so many games where no one ever appreciates anything and I find myself calling solo mid or top after a while.
I guess what I'm after is: How do I keep myself motivated for practicing playing support in solo queue?
I think it's good if you're like a Sona player, because that's where you can make some really obvious plays if you're just better player than the other guys. This is also true for Lulu and Zyra (though less so since Sona can heal herself if she makes a stupid mistake). I remember there was this one game where I supported a vayne vs a kog nunu, and just because I was better than the kog and nunu I spent the entire laning phase 1v2'ing them away from creep and experience to the point where Vayne was double the farm of the kog (I think like...100 at 12 minutes while kog was still at 50 or 60 something).
The entire game Vayne ended up saying "Sona, boss support."
But I guess that's an extreme circumstance. Most of the time people don't really notice anything.
|
Crazy how Cait and Lux got a huge surge in popularity recently oO I don't really get the reason. Both are strong pushers/counter pushers but they're still squishy no-escapes (or close) characters who don't exactly excell at anything except farming and taking towers.
It's even more crazy given Cait doesn't even have a 50% win ratio.
|
On April 07 2013 20:57 mr_tolkien wrote:
Crazy how Cait and Lux got a huge surge in popularity recently oO I don't really get the reason. Both are strong pushers/counter pushers but they're still squishy no-escapes (or close) characters who don't exactly excell at anything except farming and taking towers.
It's even more crazy given Cait doesn't even have a 50% win ratio.
net is like one of the best escapes on an AD...
|
Lux has been popular for a while, and she has such long range on her combo that an escape ability isn't that needed. Also her shield is crazy as fuck.
|
On April 07 2013 21:01 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 20:57 mr_tolkien wrote:
Crazy how Cait and Lux got a huge surge in popularity recently oO I don't really get the reason. Both are strong pushers/counter pushers but they're still squishy no-escapes (or close) characters who don't exactly excell at anything except farming and taking towers.
It's even more crazy given Cait doesn't even have a 50% win ratio. net is like one of the best escapes on an AD...
Trist/Ez/Graves/Corki/any AD other than the ones without escapes would like to have a word with you. Cait has no way to negate/reduce the CD, doesn't have very long range, and is kinda iffy to use properly in some situations.
|
On April 07 2013 21:40 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 21:01 sob3k wrote:On April 07 2013 20:57 mr_tolkien wrote:
Crazy how Cait and Lux got a huge surge in popularity recently oO I don't really get the reason. Both are strong pushers/counter pushers but they're still squishy no-escapes (or close) characters who don't exactly excell at anything except farming and taking towers.
It's even more crazy given Cait doesn't even have a 50% win ratio. net is like one of the best escapes on an AD... Trist/Ez/Graves/Corki/any AD other than the ones without escapes would like to have a word with you. Cait has no way to negate/reduce the CD, doesn't have very long range, and is kinda iffy to use properly in some situations.
How's it iffy? See enemy, net at enemy. Couldn't be any simpler.
Only Ezreal's is comparable out of those, and even that doesn't slow the opponent.
Hmm I don't really get the Fizz allin stuff, seems like opponent can just flash out and hug turret.
|
On April 07 2013 21:40 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 21:01 sob3k wrote:On April 07 2013 20:57 mr_tolkien wrote:
Crazy how Cait and Lux got a huge surge in popularity recently oO I don't really get the reason. Both are strong pushers/counter pushers but they're still squishy no-escapes (or close) characters who don't exactly excell at anything except farming and taking towers.
It's even more crazy given Cait doesn't even have a 50% win ratio. net is like one of the best escapes on an AD... Trist/Ez/Graves/Corki/any AD other than the ones without escapes would like to have a word with you. Cait has no way to negate/reduce the CD, doesn't have very long range, and is kinda iffy to use properly in some situations.
net is a way better escape than quickdraw, arcane shift is better and trist/corki are comparable
out of all the AD's that makes cait one with very good escape comparatively
|
Go for it, hug your tower. Fizz gonna be more than happy to zone you. Of course that means your jungler can come, but he can also tell his "hey dude, camp mid when I'm around level 2, I'll be much much stronger and there are good chances of counterganks opportunities arising".
On April 07 2013 20:12 Slayer91 wrote:
Scip did really well with rammus and he's great against assassins because of 3 second taunt +armour debuff and his r does lots of damage but he has weaknesses so I'm also a bit surprised he's one of the top winrates.
Can't it be that people aren't too used to dealing with him because he still is barely picked anyway, though? Kinda like before NA realised Rumble was strong, he had a crazy high winrate because only 1-trick ponies played him on top of him being OP?
|
On April 07 2013 21:40 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 21:01 sob3k wrote:On April 07 2013 20:57 mr_tolkien wrote:
Crazy how Cait and Lux got a huge surge in popularity recently oO I don't really get the reason. Both are strong pushers/counter pushers but they're still squishy no-escapes (or close) characters who don't exactly excell at anything except farming and taking towers.
It's even more crazy given Cait doesn't even have a 50% win ratio. net is like one of the best escapes on an AD... Trist/Ez/Graves/Corki/any AD other than the ones without escapes would like to have a word with you. Cait has no way to negate/reduce the CD, doesn't have very long range, and is kinda iffy to use properly in some situations.
I'm going to have to fully disagree with you. Cait's net is extremely handy and a great escape. Her net can launch her through most small walls along with J4 ult and a up ledges.
Ezreal is most comparable w/ Cait as their range is almost the same. Whereas Graves' I feel is a little shorter and more of in engage than a disengage.
Trist and Corki aren't even comparable imo.
|
Vayne has the best mobility spell then Ez then Cait.
|
Haha so we have the most stupid comp ever(akali elise katarina...), last teamfight me as akali gets caught like an idiot -> enemy Leona ults our whole team and stuff and then this terrible computer lags at like 2 FPS and then our katarina jumps in and the enemy team disappears in 0.2 seconds and the announcer doesn't even have the time to say anything but PENTA KILL right away <_< never had that happen before, usually I at least hear "double kill" or "triple kill" or "killing spree" or something before it but the enemy team just disintegrated so fast to the Katarina that she just got an insta-penta *_* She only had a Deathcap and Haunting Guise at 27min, too. Turns out she resets faster than Kha'Zix. Also, Tristana + Kha'Zix + Katarina + Master Yi would make for a pretty nice team imo, better not lose any members of the team. .
By the way, Tristana's jump is awful. In one game our team's Volibear caught up to the enemy Tristana from like half-map during the startup of her rocket jump.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
