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On April 04 2013 03:04 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 02:58 sylverfyre wrote:
Ugh, this is pissing me off. I'm starting to think that LCS teams should have fixed lineup, and only be allowed to drop a starter for a sub. No trading or picking up new members until after the midseason playoffs, IMO.
I really do NOT like an LCS team taking members from a challenger team who had great hopes of becoming an LCS team for the second part of the season. Unfortunately, this is the kind of thing contracts were created to prevent. I can't speak for gtrsrs's legal arrangements with Velocity's members, but normally (i.e. in other sports) this kind of rapid, unprecedented shifting would be met with some serious suing. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but this is why there need to be more things like players' unions, etc. ideally. Because there are rules being broken.
I just figured teams would have contracts to prevent this, like you said. A player agrees to play for the team for a set period of time and he can not leave the team to join another unless the owner of his contract agrees, money etc. changes hands between teams.
I think this is pretty normal even in corporate world. For example a contract might state that if an employee quits his job, he is forbidden to go work for a company in the same field for a set period of time.
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You also generally have to give a company notice that you are leaving. At least here you do so they have time to figure out what they going to do. Think here it's 2 weeks or maybe longer.
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Two weeks is standard in the US afaik. Not a requirement but that's the amount of time I've always heard.
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2 weeks notice is a professional courtesy.
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United States23745 Posts
On April 04 2013 05:45 mordek wrote:
Two weeks is standard in the US afaik. Not a requirement but that's the amount of time I've always heard.
Yeah two weeks notice is more of a courtesy thing, so you give your employer time to figure out how/if they are going to replace you.
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On April 04 2013 03:13 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 03:08 cLutZ wrote:On April 04 2013 03:04 AsmodeusXI wrote:On April 04 2013 02:58 sylverfyre wrote:
Ugh, this is pissing me off. I'm starting to think that LCS teams should have fixed lineup, and only be allowed to drop a starter for a sub. No trading or picking up new members until after the midseason playoffs, IMO.
I really do NOT like an LCS team taking members from a challenger team who had great hopes of becoming an LCS team for the second part of the season. Unfortunately, this is the kind of thing contracts were created to prevent. I can't speak for gtrsrs's legal arrangements with Velocity's members, but normally (i.e. in other sports) this kind of rapid, unprecedented shifting would be met with some serious suing. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but this is why there need to be more things like players' unions, etc. ideally. Because there are rules being broken. Well Unions have pretty much broke the backs of players in most other sports. Lebron James should be making 2-4x his current Miami Heat salary, not including endorsements. I'm sure there are MANY MANY bad things about these kinds of arrangements, but some form of protection for players (to avoid being screwed over by teams) and teams (to avoid being screwed over by players) would certainly be welcome, right? I mean, I'll admit I don't know nearly enough about real sports where this stuff exists, but SOMETHING like this needs to happen eventually. Then people like gtrsrs and his teammates don't get royally fucked without recompense.
Honestly, its called a contract. I'm a 3rd year law student and have no idea what kind of contracts these players have/sign, but it would be plenty simple to write one for a challenger team that has a significant buyout clause. I.E. TSM wants my mid, thats gonna cost them $50k, etc (well the player would be the one obligated to pay that, but realistically the team would).
On April 04 2013 05:38 [SuNdae] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 03:04 AsmodeusXI wrote:On April 04 2013 02:58 sylverfyre wrote:
Ugh, this is pissing me off. I'm starting to think that LCS teams should have fixed lineup, and only be allowed to drop a starter for a sub. No trading or picking up new members until after the midseason playoffs, IMO.
I really do NOT like an LCS team taking members from a challenger team who had great hopes of becoming an LCS team for the second part of the season. Unfortunately, this is the kind of thing contracts were created to prevent. I can't speak for gtrsrs's legal arrangements with Velocity's members, but normally (i.e. in other sports) this kind of rapid, unprecedented shifting would be met with some serious suing. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but this is why there need to be more things like players' unions, etc. ideally. Because there are rules being broken. I just figured teams would have contracts to prevent this, like you said. A player agrees to play for the team for a set period of time and he can not leave the team to join another unless the owner of his contract agrees, money etc. changes hands between teams. I think this is pretty normal even in corporate world. For example a contract might state that if an employee quits his job, he is forbidden to go work for a company in the same field for a set period of time.
A good model to look to would be coaches in NCAA football/etc. Usually what happens is some minor school like Eastern Michigan has a coach, and his team does well, then he gets hired by University of Michigan, but they have to buyout the contract.
The problem is likely that challenger series teams don't pay enough to really have any clout.
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France45622 Posts
On April 04 2013 05:50 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 05:45 mordek wrote:
Two weeks is standard in the US afaik. Not a requirement but that's the amount of time I've always heard. Yeah two weeks notice is more of a courtesy thing, so you give your employer time to figure out how/if they are going to replace you.
Woah, you sure are liberals, in my domain it's more around 1 month (standard is around 3 months in my domain), and law as it a minimal notice is required for somebody to be fired or a resignation to be legal.
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On April 04 2013 05:58 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 03:13 AsmodeusXI wrote:On April 04 2013 03:08 cLutZ wrote:On April 04 2013 03:04 AsmodeusXI wrote:On April 04 2013 02:58 sylverfyre wrote:
Ugh, this is pissing me off. I'm starting to think that LCS teams should have fixed lineup, and only be allowed to drop a starter for a sub. No trading or picking up new members until after the midseason playoffs, IMO.
I really do NOT like an LCS team taking members from a challenger team who had great hopes of becoming an LCS team for the second part of the season. Unfortunately, this is the kind of thing contracts were created to prevent. I can't speak for gtrsrs's legal arrangements with Velocity's members, but normally (i.e. in other sports) this kind of rapid, unprecedented shifting would be met with some serious suing. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but this is why there need to be more things like players' unions, etc. ideally. Because there are rules being broken. Well Unions have pretty much broke the backs of players in most other sports. Lebron James should be making 2-4x his current Miami Heat salary, not including endorsements. I'm sure there are MANY MANY bad things about these kinds of arrangements, but some form of protection for players (to avoid being screwed over by teams) and teams (to avoid being screwed over by players) would certainly be welcome, right? I mean, I'll admit I don't know nearly enough about real sports where this stuff exists, but SOMETHING like this needs to happen eventually. Then people like gtrsrs and his teammates don't get royally fucked without recompense. Honestly, its called a contract. I'm a 3rd year law student and have no idea what kind of contracts these players have/sign, but it would be plenty simple to write one for a challenger team that has a significant buyout clause. I.E. TSM wants my mid, thats gonna cost them $50k, etc (well the player would be the one obligated to pay that, but realistically the team would). Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 05:38 [SuNdae] wrote:On April 04 2013 03:04 AsmodeusXI wrote:On April 04 2013 02:58 sylverfyre wrote:
Ugh, this is pissing me off. I'm starting to think that LCS teams should have fixed lineup, and only be allowed to drop a starter for a sub. No trading or picking up new members until after the midseason playoffs, IMO.
I really do NOT like an LCS team taking members from a challenger team who had great hopes of becoming an LCS team for the second part of the season. Unfortunately, this is the kind of thing contracts were created to prevent. I can't speak for gtrsrs's legal arrangements with Velocity's members, but normally (i.e. in other sports) this kind of rapid, unprecedented shifting would be met with some serious suing. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but this is why there need to be more things like players' unions, etc. ideally. Because there are rules being broken. I just figured teams would have contracts to prevent this, like you said. A player agrees to play for the team for a set period of time and he can not leave the team to join another unless the owner of his contract agrees, money etc. changes hands between teams. I think this is pretty normal even in corporate world. For example a contract might state that if an employee quits his job, he is forbidden to go work for a company in the same field for a set period of time. A good model to look to would be coaches in NCAA football/etc. Usually what happens is some minor school like Eastern Michigan has a coach, and his team does well, then he gets hired by University of Michigan, but they have to buyout the contract. The problem is likely that challenger series teams don't pay enough to really have any clout.
In a community so 'immature'(this has multiple meanings in league, because it is both young competitively and young as far as ages of pretty much everyone involved), this is where Riot should be stepping in as a governing body until the teams(or at least, more than a few of them) grow capable of doing such a thing themselves. Obviously given guitar's previous comment though, Riot has no inclination to do so because they are apparently happy with the way this early player movement is working out, and favor it as their system of choice. It will be up to the 'owners' to figure something out, which is a struggle any league faces because the more established owners could quite conceivably say 'fuck off' because they're doing well and enjoy the benefits of the system.
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TL LoL: Pokemon, MtG, and Contractual Law.
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On April 04 2013 06:09 Requizen wrote:
TL LoL: Pokemon, MtG, and Contractual Law.
And a ton of former WoW players.
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On April 04 2013 04:10 Mondeezy wrote:
Personally I think each team should have a 5 player main roster with 2-3 subs locked in when the season starts, and free trade can be reopened at the break between each season. Too many times I've seen the bottom 70% of teams in a league roster swap every damn tournament instead of just improving team cohesion and practice regimen. It's really lame to watch as a spectator and any person casually following the scene will have a tough time remembering the lineup of any of those teams if there is a new player on it every event.
Plus, this would give challenger teams more incentive to stick together as compared to LCS teams just taking one or two players from the team. If your teammates don't get poached by the time the season starts, it gives you a few months to stick together and improve possibly to qualify at the start of the next season. Those AM teams improving = better practice partners outside of the LCS for the teams in the LCS = general improvement for the scene and more "good" teams to look forward to. That, and everyone knows more competition will cause teams to take this more seriously.
Bump for thoughts because Lissandra stole the spotlight.
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all teams need to do is make 2 year contracts or something.
Then make a clause that prevents the player that cancels/doesnt fullfill his contract from playing in any professional league games for 1 year (or something). With the option to buy themselves out of this.
The buyout conveniantly also indicates how much they will get sued for if they break the clause.
With this kind of money flying around in LCs, such things need to be done.
Some people become huge jerks when they see the chance to make money.
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On April 04 2013 04:29 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 04:22 Parnage wrote:On April 04 2013 04:13 Alaric wrote:Lissandra becomes untargetable according to the French version ("s'immobiliser" should be translated as "to root oneself" according to translations up to now; the French version is already meh since it says "kiting" as is—it's not noob-friendly at all even though it's commonly used even in French conversation because the translation would take a lot more syllables). Depends if it's Fizz/Yi-like untargetable, or Vlad-like untargetable, for another E activation. Edit: nvm, she's the most broken "untargetable" to date: Si un ennemi mord à l'hameçon, Lissandra peut lancer Tombeau polaire sur elle-même, ce qui lui permet de résister aux dégâts le temps d'assurer la mort de son adversaire en lançant ses autres compétences. If an enemy takes the bait [and tower-dives her], Lissandra can use her Frost Tomb [her ult] on herself, allowing her to avoid damage until she kills her opponent through the rest of her abilities. She's untargetable but can still cast, and probably attack. Only a self-root. Her passive makes it sound like she could be played as a poke support, if her base numbers are high enough (Zyra how the fuck are your plants allowed to hurt that much). Also I never played WoW (pretty much half of what I know about it comes from this thread, increasing with each additional WoW discussion), is the rip-off that blatant? Not really, alot of melee just have bad nightmareish style flashbacks to fighting Ice mages in Wow so anything close to such is met with hostility. The best way to describe it in League terms is players talking about the nightmares of playing versus old heimer or in broodwar proxy pylons with cannons. Only worse. The worst thing ever was that short period of time when frostmages paired off with healdruids. I am pretty sure they did this because they feed off tears.
Every time I get depressed at getting paired as support with an AD on a different world, I console myself with the fact that at least I'm not chasing a Resto druid round a pillar for ten minutes spamming Purge and trying to Earth Shock Cyclone.
But yeah, Lissandra's Frost Nova/Blink/Ice Block are def. giving me a WoW Frost Mage vibe. Quite a few elemental themed champions lately, hmmmn.
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On April 04 2013 06:16 Haasts wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 04:29 Simberto wrote:On April 04 2013 04:22 Parnage wrote:On April 04 2013 04:13 Alaric wrote:Lissandra becomes untargetable according to the French version ("s'immobiliser" should be translated as "to root oneself" according to translations up to now; the French version is already meh since it says "kiting" as is—it's not noob-friendly at all even though it's commonly used even in French conversation because the translation would take a lot more syllables). Depends if it's Fizz/Yi-like untargetable, or Vlad-like untargetable, for another E activation. Edit: nvm, she's the most broken "untargetable" to date: Si un ennemi mord à l'hameçon, Lissandra peut lancer Tombeau polaire sur elle-même, ce qui lui permet de résister aux dégâts le temps d'assurer la mort de son adversaire en lançant ses autres compétences. If an enemy takes the bait [and tower-dives her], Lissandra can use her Frost Tomb [her ult] on herself, allowing her to avoid damage until she kills her opponent through the rest of her abilities. She's untargetable but can still cast, and probably attack. Only a self-root. Her passive makes it sound like she could be played as a poke support, if her base numbers are high enough (Zyra how the fuck are your plants allowed to hurt that much). Also I never played WoW (pretty much half of what I know about it comes from this thread, increasing with each additional WoW discussion), is the rip-off that blatant? Not really, alot of melee just have bad nightmareish style flashbacks to fighting Ice mages in Wow so anything close to such is met with hostility. The best way to describe it in League terms is players talking about the nightmares of playing versus old heimer or in broodwar proxy pylons with cannons. Only worse. The worst thing ever was that short period of time when frostmages paired off with healdruids. I am pretty sure they did this because they feed off tears. Every time I get depressed at getting paired as support with an AD on a different world, I console myself with the fact that at least I'm not chasing a Resto druid round a pillar for ten minutes spamming Purge and trying to Earth Shock Cyclone. But yeah, Lissandra's Frost Nova/Blink/Ice Block are def. giving me a WoW Frost Mage vibe. Quite a few elemental themed champions lately, hmmmn.
Well, her and remade Trundle/Sej are all for the lore block. Last one we had before that was... Nami?
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On April 04 2013 06:14 Mondeezy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 04:10 Mondeezy wrote:
Personally I think each team should have a 5 player main roster with 2-3 subs locked in when the season starts, and free trade can be reopened at the break between each season. Too many times I've seen the bottom 70% of teams in a league roster swap every damn tournament instead of just improving team cohesion and practice regimen. It's really lame to watch as a spectator and any person casually following the scene will have a tough time remembering the lineup of any of those teams if there is a new player on it every event.
Plus, this would give challenger teams more incentive to stick together as compared to LCS teams just taking one or two players from the team. If your teammates don't get poached by the time the season starts, it gives you a few months to stick together and improve possibly to qualify at the start of the next season. Those AM teams improving = better practice partners outside of the LCS for the teams in the LCS = general improvement for the scene and more "good" teams to look forward to. That, and everyone knows more competition will cause teams to take this more seriously. Bump for thoughts because Lissandra stole the spotlight.
Totally agreed. Even if they can have any number of subs (as is now) you could totally cast some of these moves as "Well, if we ruin all the challenger team's lineups, nobody will take our LCS spot away!"
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On April 04 2013 06:14 Mondeezy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 04:10 Mondeezy wrote:
Personally I think each team should have a 5 player main roster with 2-3 subs locked in when the season starts, and free trade can be reopened at the break between each season. Too many times I've seen the bottom 70% of teams in a league roster swap every damn tournament instead of just improving team cohesion and practice regimen. It's really lame to watch as a spectator and any person casually following the scene will have a tough time remembering the lineup of any of those teams if there is a new player on it every event.
Plus, this would give challenger teams more incentive to stick together as compared to LCS teams just taking one or two players from the team. If your teammates don't get poached by the time the season starts, it gives you a few months to stick together and improve possibly to qualify at the start of the next season. Those AM teams improving = better practice partners outside of the LCS for the teams in the LCS = general improvement for the scene and more "good" teams to look forward to. That, and everyone knows more competition will cause teams to take this more seriously. Bump for thoughts because Lissandra stole the spotlight.
This would probably be a good idea.
I would say submit roster at the start of the season, can trade anybody any time up until trade deadline, at which point you can still drop players, but you can only pick up free-agents, and any person on a LCS challenger team is ineligible for trade.
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The jokes of LCS continue now as Malunoo is now back on DB
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It pretty much seems that western scene has a ton to grow in all regards compared to say Korea.
I just don't get how this situation has been like this for so long. People and teams need to understand that what they're doing is a serious business and should be handled with the respect it deserves. Seems to me that western lol scene is just boys playing at being pro gamers. It's ok if you don't know how to handle contracts, but you should have enough sense to hire someone that does.
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On April 04 2013 06:34 [SuNdae] wrote:
It pretty much seems that western scene has a ton to grow in all regards compared to say Korea.
I just don't get how this situation has been like this for so long. People and teams need to understand that what they're doing is a serious business and should be handled with the respect it deserves. Seems to me that western lol scene is just boys playing at being pro gamers. It's ok if you don't know how to handle contracts, but you should have enough sense to hire someone that does.
I guarantee that Dig and Curse have solid contracts.
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EPT
