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On April 03 2013 06:45 wei2coolman wrote:
So... april fools is done; but this thread still up.... Just waiting for next patch I guess, before thread switch?
loool i didn't even realize this was a joke thread >_>
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Traditional Trundle seems to use the old VA as well, so that's pretty cool.
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What's the whole deal with Athene?
Does anyone have good info/articles on it?
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really don't like the sej and trundle changes. it feels like trundle got nerfed overall, which is kinda dumb considering he was already super niche. Sej rework was unnecessary and just makes her more cookie-cutter. All they needed to do was buff Sejuani's early W damage and she would be perfectly fine.
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On April 03 2013 08:09 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 07:46 Zdrastochye wrote:Some parts of TL so misinformed it's almost funny. Even valued posters can say things like: On March 25 2013 15:57 opterown wrote:
i personally feel the presence of the million dollar tournaments that valve and riot hold aren't really too good for the scene... imo it's much better to have more spread out, smaller tournaments. with million dollar tourneys, all the hype/training goes towards one single event each year and it's not surprising that teams disband and stuff afterwards. way too top heavy imo, i quite enjoyed the WCS (even though i would have liked even more spread)
He did start it off with "I personally feel" but I got a bit of a chuckle over the idea that having a decent numbers of teams salaried throughout an entire year, on top of million dollar tourny season finals promotes the exact opposite of a top-heavy scene. Maybe it's more true in Dota 2 with the Invitational, but I don't see it being true for LoL at all. Spread out smaller tournies still favor whomever can farm them over and over as opposed to salaries that aren't restrictive of teams being able to show up to LANs without choosing that over a month's rent at a gaming house. Maybe I'm making it a big deal, but usually quality posters (opertown I hope you don't think it's a diss, you usually post shit quite accurately) aren't known to have such a slanted view of other e-sports. I will admit that I was one of the people who was skeptical about the influence of LCS on the rest of the scene. But quite honestly, I think the NA amateur scene outside of LCS has grown a TON with the top tier teams in LCS leaving room for the next tier of teams to really step into their own. It really has worked out for the better.
and then buying out the top non LCS players to keep the scene stagnant
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On April 03 2013 08:27 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 08:09 TheYango wrote:On April 03 2013 07:46 Zdrastochye wrote:Some parts of TL so misinformed it's almost funny. Even valued posters can say things like: On March 25 2013 15:57 opterown wrote:
i personally feel the presence of the million dollar tournaments that valve and riot hold aren't really too good for the scene... imo it's much better to have more spread out, smaller tournaments. with million dollar tourneys, all the hype/training goes towards one single event each year and it's not surprising that teams disband and stuff afterwards. way too top heavy imo, i quite enjoyed the WCS (even though i would have liked even more spread)
He did start it off with "I personally feel" but I got a bit of a chuckle over the idea that having a decent numbers of teams salaried throughout an entire year, on top of million dollar tourny season finals promotes the exact opposite of a top-heavy scene. Maybe it's more true in Dota 2 with the Invitational, but I don't see it being true for LoL at all. Spread out smaller tournies still favor whomever can farm them over and over as opposed to salaries that aren't restrictive of teams being able to show up to LANs without choosing that over a month's rent at a gaming house. Maybe I'm making it a big deal, but usually quality posters (opertown I hope you don't think it's a diss, you usually post shit quite accurately) aren't known to have such a slanted view of other e-sports. I will admit that I was one of the people who was skeptical about the influence of LCS on the rest of the scene. But quite honestly, I think the NA amateur scene outside of LCS has grown a TON with the top tier teams in LCS leaving room for the next tier of teams to really step into their own. It really has worked out for the better. and then buying out the top non LCS players to keep the scene stagnant
I see what you did there.
I'm still skeptical about how the scene is ran. Having Riot being the funder of tournaments + seller of product is not healthy for the scene.
I think a thirdparty organization running the scene is better. OGN/Garena/etc. Eventually the esports seen is going to have to become healthy enough to stand on its own two legs without Riot's money. LCS is a nice start-up, but eventually Riot's gunna have to fade away in prizemoney involvement.
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Damn, the story of RobertxLee losing 6 years of his memory is crazy....quite sobering.
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On April 03 2013 08:38 Koenig99 wrote:
Damn, the story of RobertxLee losing 6 years of his memory is crazy....quite sobering.
was watching his stream; supposedly when he was playing league after his injury, he had no idea what some of those champs were; despite them being released for a while.
pretty fucking crazy....
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i don't see how it's not healthy. company loves its game, does everything it can to promote it. it captures casual players and competitive players. what's lcs salary, $30k? that's not a lot.
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On April 03 2013 08:40 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 08:38 Koenig99 wrote:
Damn, the story of RobertxLee losing 6 years of his memory is crazy....quite sobering. was watching his stream; supposedly when he was playing league after his injury, he had no idea what some of those champs were; despite them being released for a while. pretty fucking crazy....
Lol. I don't know the story at all but I'm picturing a movie or something where everything's very dramatic, it's raining outside... his family is watching him play League. Robert's playing Ashe and is like... "What does my ult do?" And everyone around him starts crying, lamenting the loss of his skills.
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On April 03 2013 08:42 kainzero wrote:
i don't see how it's not healthy. company loves its game, does everything it can to promote it. it captures casual players and competitive players. what's lcs salary, $30k? that's not a lot.
Do you really thinking Riot is promoting esports for the "love of its game".
The esports scene is only healthy if 3rd party companies are funding it, other wise it's unnaturally inflated.
It's like the difference of one person living off of their parents, and a person living on their own.
On April 03 2013 08:46 Chrispy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 08:40 wei2coolman wrote:On April 03 2013 08:38 Koenig99 wrote:
Damn, the story of RobertxLee losing 6 years of his memory is crazy....quite sobering. was watching his stream; supposedly when he was playing league after his injury, he had no idea what some of those champs were; despite them being released for a while. pretty fucking crazy.... Lol. I don't know the story at all but I'm picturing a movie or something where everything's very dramatic, it's raining outside... his family is watching him play League. Robert's playing Ashe and is like... "What does my ult do?" And everyone around him starts crying, lamenting the loss of his skills.
Initially he had difficulty playing, but quickly adapted. Still has a lot of issues with identifying champions.
Supposedly he still shits on nubs on botlane; mechanical skill is muscle memory, can't lose that.
Yeah, the story was he tumbled down the stairs (like vayne) and has amnesia now. The kid's got skills.
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On April 03 2013 08:42 kainzero wrote:
i don't see how it's not healthy. company loves its game, does everything it can to promote it. it captures casual players and competitive players. what's lcs salary, $30k? that's not a lot.
It's not about now it's about the future. What happens when the company doesn't lose it's one game so much but decides to do something else. Does the scene have the foundation to continue without them is the real issue
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On April 03 2013 08:33 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 08:27 gtrsrs wrote:On April 03 2013 08:09 TheYango wrote:On April 03 2013 07:46 Zdrastochye wrote:Some parts of TL so misinformed it's almost funny. Even valued posters can say things like: On March 25 2013 15:57 opterown wrote:
i personally feel the presence of the million dollar tournaments that valve and riot hold aren't really too good for the scene... imo it's much better to have more spread out, smaller tournaments. with million dollar tourneys, all the hype/training goes towards one single event each year and it's not surprising that teams disband and stuff afterwards. way too top heavy imo, i quite enjoyed the WCS (even though i would have liked even more spread)
He did start it off with "I personally feel" but I got a bit of a chuckle over the idea that having a decent numbers of teams salaried throughout an entire year, on top of million dollar tourny season finals promotes the exact opposite of a top-heavy scene. Maybe it's more true in Dota 2 with the Invitational, but I don't see it being true for LoL at all. Spread out smaller tournies still favor whomever can farm them over and over as opposed to salaries that aren't restrictive of teams being able to show up to LANs without choosing that over a month's rent at a gaming house. Maybe I'm making it a big deal, but usually quality posters (opertown I hope you don't think it's a diss, you usually post shit quite accurately) aren't known to have such a slanted view of other e-sports. I will admit that I was one of the people who was skeptical about the influence of LCS on the rest of the scene. But quite honestly, I think the NA amateur scene outside of LCS has grown a TON with the top tier teams in LCS leaving room for the next tier of teams to really step into their own. It really has worked out for the better. and then buying out the top non LCS players to keep the scene stagnant I see what you did there. I'm still skeptical about how the scene is ran. Having Riot being the funder of tournaments + seller of product is not healthy for the scene. I think a thirdparty organization running the scene is better. OGN/Garena/etc. Eventually the esports seen is going to have to become healthy enough to stand on its own two legs without Riot's money. LCS is a nice start-up, but eventually Riot's gunna have to fade away in prizemoney involvement.
Honestly, I am all for gaming companies taking more active roles in the esports scenes that build up around them. The downside to having everything ran by 3rd party is that those things have issues, from players not getting paid on time, to tournament saturation(SC2 had this bad at one point, league was getting to that point by the later half of S2) and tournaments just going away. I mean LCS gives me weekly or so League matches between top teams and setting up awesome storylines. It's reliable it's not too many games and it's a lot of fun to see the teams talk up and talk down each other.
Not to mention a lot of 3rd party groups kinda suck..BW kespa had numerous issues, war 3 had a tourney map fixing scandal by leagues and I doubt the people who booked flights to IPL6 where too pleased with it's sudden destruction.
I'd rather stability and who better to take care of the scene then the creators who have vested interest in doing well?
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On April 03 2013 08:48 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 08:42 kainzero wrote:
i don't see how it's not healthy. company loves its game, does everything it can to promote it. it captures casual players and competitive players. what's lcs salary, $30k? that's not a lot. Do you really thinking Riot is promoting esports for the "love of its game". The esports scene is only healthy if 3rd party companies are funding it, other wise it's unnaturally inflated. It's like the difference of one person living off of their parents, and a person living on their own. Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 08:46 Chrispy wrote:On April 03 2013 08:40 wei2coolman wrote:On April 03 2013 08:38 Koenig99 wrote:
Damn, the story of RobertxLee losing 6 years of his memory is crazy....quite sobering. was watching his stream; supposedly when he was playing league after his injury, he had no idea what some of those champs were; despite them being released for a while. pretty fucking crazy.... Lol. I don't know the story at all but I'm picturing a movie or something where everything's very dramatic, it's raining outside... his family is watching him play League. Robert's playing Ashe and is like... "What does my ult do?" And everyone around him starts crying, lamenting the loss of his skills. Initially he had difficulty playing, but quickly adapted. Still has a lot of issues with identifying champions. Supposedly he still shits on nubs on botlane; mechanical skill is muscle memory, can't lose that. Yeah, the story was he tumbled down the stairs (like vayne) and has amnesia now. The kid's got skills.
But. If Riot didn't fund the LoL scene, would it really not prosper? Tournament organizers shouldn't have problems holding tournaments for 100k+ viewers, right?
Also about amnesia, aren't you supposed to remember things either over time or by being reminded of them? Though I'm not sure what different types there are...
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On April 03 2013 08:51 Parnage wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 08:33 wei2coolman wrote:On April 03 2013 08:27 gtrsrs wrote:On April 03 2013 08:09 TheYango wrote:On April 03 2013 07:46 Zdrastochye wrote:Some parts of TL so misinformed it's almost funny. Even valued posters can say things like: On March 25 2013 15:57 opterown wrote:
i personally feel the presence of the million dollar tournaments that valve and riot hold aren't really too good for the scene... imo it's much better to have more spread out, smaller tournaments. with million dollar tourneys, all the hype/training goes towards one single event each year and it's not surprising that teams disband and stuff afterwards. way too top heavy imo, i quite enjoyed the WCS (even though i would have liked even more spread)
He did start it off with "I personally feel" but I got a bit of a chuckle over the idea that having a decent numbers of teams salaried throughout an entire year, on top of million dollar tourny season finals promotes the exact opposite of a top-heavy scene. Maybe it's more true in Dota 2 with the Invitational, but I don't see it being true for LoL at all. Spread out smaller tournies still favor whomever can farm them over and over as opposed to salaries that aren't restrictive of teams being able to show up to LANs without choosing that over a month's rent at a gaming house. Maybe I'm making it a big deal, but usually quality posters (opertown I hope you don't think it's a diss, you usually post shit quite accurately) aren't known to have such a slanted view of other e-sports. I will admit that I was one of the people who was skeptical about the influence of LCS on the rest of the scene. But quite honestly, I think the NA amateur scene outside of LCS has grown a TON with the top tier teams in LCS leaving room for the next tier of teams to really step into their own. It really has worked out for the better. and then buying out the top non LCS players to keep the scene stagnant I see what you did there. I'm still skeptical about how the scene is ran. Having Riot being the funder of tournaments + seller of product is not healthy for the scene. I think a thirdparty organization running the scene is better. OGN/Garena/etc. Eventually the esports seen is going to have to become healthy enough to stand on its own two legs without Riot's money. LCS is a nice start-up, but eventually Riot's gunna have to fade away in prizemoney involvement. Honestly, I am all for gaming companies taking more active roles in the esports scenes that build up around them. The downside to having everything ran by 3rd party is that those things have issues, from players not getting paid on time, to tournament saturation(SC2 had this bad at one point, league was getting to that point by the later half of S2) and tournaments just going away. I mean LCS gives me weekly or so League matches between top teams and setting up awesome storylines. It's reliable it's not too many games and it's a lot of fun to see the teams talk up and talk down each other. Not to mention a lot of 3rd party groups kinda suck..BW kespa had numerous issues, war 3 had a tourney map fixing scandal by leagues and I doubt the people who booked flights to IPL6 where too pleased with it's sudden destruction. I'd rather stability and who better to take care of the scene then the creators who have vested interest in doing well?
It's fine for now; it's a good step; but years from now, I would like to see Riot's financial support ween off.
You can name 3rd party failures, but I could name better successes, OGN? Garena?, strongest teams were born there.
Again, sure you can live off of your parents first 18 years of your life, but eventually going to go out in the world on your own legs.
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On April 03 2013 08:53 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 08:48 wei2coolman wrote:On April 03 2013 08:42 kainzero wrote:
i don't see how it's not healthy. company loves its game, does everything it can to promote it. it captures casual players and competitive players. what's lcs salary, $30k? that's not a lot. Do you really thinking Riot is promoting esports for the "love of its game". The esports scene is only healthy if 3rd party companies are funding it, other wise it's unnaturally inflated. It's like the difference of one person living off of their parents, and a person living on their own. On April 03 2013 08:46 Chrispy wrote:On April 03 2013 08:40 wei2coolman wrote:On April 03 2013 08:38 Koenig99 wrote:
Damn, the story of RobertxLee losing 6 years of his memory is crazy....quite sobering. was watching his stream; supposedly when he was playing league after his injury, he had no idea what some of those champs were; despite them being released for a while. pretty fucking crazy.... Lol. I don't know the story at all but I'm picturing a movie or something where everything's very dramatic, it's raining outside... his family is watching him play League. Robert's playing Ashe and is like... "What does my ult do?" And everyone around him starts crying, lamenting the loss of his skills. Initially he had difficulty playing, but quickly adapted. Still has a lot of issues with identifying champions. Supposedly he still shits on nubs on botlane; mechanical skill is muscle memory, can't lose that. Yeah, the story was he tumbled down the stairs (like vayne) and has amnesia now. The kid's got skills. But. If Riot didn't fund the LoL scene, would it really not prosper? Tournament organizers shouldn't have problems holding tournaments for 100k+ viewers, right? Also about amnesia, aren't you supposed to remember things either over time or by being reminded of them? Though I'm not sure what different types there are...
There's different types of memory. I can't remember the specific terms but memory is generally split into two categories, one is stuff like muscle memory and the other is things like names, dates, experiences. Depending on what part of your brain you damage and what kind of amnesia you have, you can lose different forms of memory. Patients with amnesia can slowly remember things either via time or "triggers" or they may never remember things at all.
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On April 03 2013 08:54 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 08:51 Parnage wrote:On April 03 2013 08:33 wei2coolman wrote:On April 03 2013 08:27 gtrsrs wrote:On April 03 2013 08:09 TheYango wrote:On April 03 2013 07:46 Zdrastochye wrote:Some parts of TL so misinformed it's almost funny. Even valued posters can say things like: On March 25 2013 15:57 opterown wrote:
i personally feel the presence of the million dollar tournaments that valve and riot hold aren't really too good for the scene... imo it's much better to have more spread out, smaller tournaments. with million dollar tourneys, all the hype/training goes towards one single event each year and it's not surprising that teams disband and stuff afterwards. way too top heavy imo, i quite enjoyed the WCS (even though i would have liked even more spread)
He did start it off with "I personally feel" but I got a bit of a chuckle over the idea that having a decent numbers of teams salaried throughout an entire year, on top of million dollar tourny season finals promotes the exact opposite of a top-heavy scene. Maybe it's more true in Dota 2 with the Invitational, but I don't see it being true for LoL at all. Spread out smaller tournies still favor whomever can farm them over and over as opposed to salaries that aren't restrictive of teams being able to show up to LANs without choosing that over a month's rent at a gaming house. Maybe I'm making it a big deal, but usually quality posters (opertown I hope you don't think it's a diss, you usually post shit quite accurately) aren't known to have such a slanted view of other e-sports. I will admit that I was one of the people who was skeptical about the influence of LCS on the rest of the scene. But quite honestly, I think the NA amateur scene outside of LCS has grown a TON with the top tier teams in LCS leaving room for the next tier of teams to really step into their own. It really has worked out for the better. and then buying out the top non LCS players to keep the scene stagnant I see what you did there. I'm still skeptical about how the scene is ran. Having Riot being the funder of tournaments + seller of product is not healthy for the scene. I think a thirdparty organization running the scene is better. OGN/Garena/etc. Eventually the esports seen is going to have to become healthy enough to stand on its own two legs without Riot's money. LCS is a nice start-up, but eventually Riot's gunna have to fade away in prizemoney involvement. Honestly, I am all for gaming companies taking more active roles in the esports scenes that build up around them. The downside to having everything ran by 3rd party is that those things have issues, from players not getting paid on time, to tournament saturation(SC2 had this bad at one point, league was getting to that point by the later half of S2) and tournaments just going away. I mean LCS gives me weekly or so League matches between top teams and setting up awesome storylines. It's reliable it's not too many games and it's a lot of fun to see the teams talk up and talk down each other. Not to mention a lot of 3rd party groups kinda suck..BW kespa had numerous issues, war 3 had a tourney map fixing scandal by leagues and I doubt the people who booked flights to IPL6 where too pleased with it's sudden destruction. I'd rather stability and who better to take care of the scene then the creators who have vested interest in doing well? It's fine for now; it's a good step; but years from now, I would like to see Riot's financial support ween off. You can name 3rd party failures, but I could name better successes, OGN? Garena?, strongest teams were born there. Again, sure you can live off of your parents first 18 years of your life, but eventually going to go out in the world on your own legs.
We could go tit for tat on failures and successes of such things but I'd very much like to keep Riot influence if not the money in the scene for the foreseeable future. I'd love to see some more big name sponsors to help offset costs and more popularity but that's going to take some time as this thing hasn't really been done before as I recall. At least in the US that is..
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I have no idea why they changed the tenacity on trundle. That was a pretty big part of what made him awesome (running around and not giving a shit). I would have been happy with just the Ult change and maybe something done to make pillar cd lower at early levels.
Also, I liked his old voice way, way more.
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On April 03 2013 09:00 Parnage wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 08:54 wei2coolman wrote:On April 03 2013 08:51 Parnage wrote:On April 03 2013 08:33 wei2coolman wrote:On April 03 2013 08:27 gtrsrs wrote:On April 03 2013 08:09 TheYango wrote:On April 03 2013 07:46 Zdrastochye wrote:Some parts of TL so misinformed it's almost funny. Even valued posters can say things like: On March 25 2013 15:57 opterown wrote:
i personally feel the presence of the million dollar tournaments that valve and riot hold aren't really too good for the scene... imo it's much better to have more spread out, smaller tournaments. with million dollar tourneys, all the hype/training goes towards one single event each year and it's not surprising that teams disband and stuff afterwards. way too top heavy imo, i quite enjoyed the WCS (even though i would have liked even more spread)
He did start it off with "I personally feel" but I got a bit of a chuckle over the idea that having a decent numbers of teams salaried throughout an entire year, on top of million dollar tourny season finals promotes the exact opposite of a top-heavy scene. Maybe it's more true in Dota 2 with the Invitational, but I don't see it being true for LoL at all. Spread out smaller tournies still favor whomever can farm them over and over as opposed to salaries that aren't restrictive of teams being able to show up to LANs without choosing that over a month's rent at a gaming house. Maybe I'm making it a big deal, but usually quality posters (opertown I hope you don't think it's a diss, you usually post shit quite accurately) aren't known to have such a slanted view of other e-sports. I will admit that I was one of the people who was skeptical about the influence of LCS on the rest of the scene. But quite honestly, I think the NA amateur scene outside of LCS has grown a TON with the top tier teams in LCS leaving room for the next tier of teams to really step into their own. It really has worked out for the better. and then buying out the top non LCS players to keep the scene stagnant I see what you did there. I'm still skeptical about how the scene is ran. Having Riot being the funder of tournaments + seller of product is not healthy for the scene. I think a thirdparty organization running the scene is better. OGN/Garena/etc. Eventually the esports seen is going to have to become healthy enough to stand on its own two legs without Riot's money. LCS is a nice start-up, but eventually Riot's gunna have to fade away in prizemoney involvement. Honestly, I am all for gaming companies taking more active roles in the esports scenes that build up around them. The downside to having everything ran by 3rd party is that those things have issues, from players not getting paid on time, to tournament saturation(SC2 had this bad at one point, league was getting to that point by the later half of S2) and tournaments just going away. I mean LCS gives me weekly or so League matches between top teams and setting up awesome storylines. It's reliable it's not too many games and it's a lot of fun to see the teams talk up and talk down each other. Not to mention a lot of 3rd party groups kinda suck..BW kespa had numerous issues, war 3 had a tourney map fixing scandal by leagues and I doubt the people who booked flights to IPL6 where too pleased with it's sudden destruction. I'd rather stability and who better to take care of the scene then the creators who have vested interest in doing well? It's fine for now; it's a good step; but years from now, I would like to see Riot's financial support ween off. You can name 3rd party failures, but I could name better successes, OGN? Garena?, strongest teams were born there. Again, sure you can live off of your parents first 18 years of your life, but eventually going to go out in the world on your own legs. We could go tit for tat on failures and successes of such things but I'd very much like to keep Riot influence if not the money in the scene for the foreseeable future. I'd love to see some more big name sponsors to help offset costs and more popularity but that's going to take some time as this thing hasn't really been done before as I recall. At least in the US that is..
It'd be even better for Riot if they didn't have to give financial support as well; ideally it'll get to the point where LoL's esport market will be able to create hype off of sponsorship money instead of Riot's money, and Riot will be able to reap the benefits of the hype without having to pay money for it.
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That's the dream for everyone ^^
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