EPTOn April 03 2013 08:10 wussleeQ wrote:
loool i didn't even realize this was a joke thread >_>
loool i didn't even realize this was a joke thread >_>
Wait, wait...
This thread is a joke thread?
[Patch 3.05.2: April Fools] League of Legends General Disc…
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
Wait, wait... This thread is a joke thread? | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On April 03 2013 09:04 Dark_Chill wrote: I have no idea why they changed the tenacity on trundle. That was a pretty big part of what made him awesome (running around and not giving a shit). I would have been happy with just the Ult change and maybe something done to make pillar cd lower at early levels. Also, I liked his old voice way, way more. 'cause you know, you gotta be big and sturdy now, no more slippery, that's for like Fizz, not big, bad, threatening trolls. | ||
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ketchup
14521 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On April 03 2013 09:10 Alaric wrote: 'cause you know, you gotta be big and sturdy now, no more slippery, that's for like Fizz, not big, bad, threatening trolls. It's understandable imo. Champs who got free tenacity have historically been hard to balance. Dr.Mundo. Singed Irelia Olaf (ulti). | ||
MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On April 03 2013 09:09 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Wait, wait... This thread is a joke thread? I know right? On April 03 2013 09:10 Alaric wrote: 'cause you know, you gotta be big and sturdy now, no more slippery, that's for like Fizz, not big, bad, threatening trolls. I was chatting with the other staff earlier and also tweeting my thought of the day that Riot sometimes focuses too much on vertial balancing over horizontal balancing. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 03 2013 08:27 gtrsrs wrote: and then buying out the top non LCS players to keep the scene stagnant I think that speaks to the immaturity of the scene that something like that happened. But it's something that needs to be handled on the player/team organization level and not at Riot's level. The Chinese and Korean scenes have player/team organizations that handle player/team contracts and monitor transfers for any unscrupulous deals (Kespa in Korea, ACE in China). Western E-sports has yet to form a similar organization among teams. It's actually something that got debated a few months back in the DotA forum--whether such frequent player transfers in Western E-sports is a good thing and whether there should be an organization that manages these sorts of things. Many people disagreed with me, saying that "players shouldn't have to play on teams they don't want to". But my view on it is this: - If you want the scene to be professional, players have to act like professionals. Contracted professionals are required to live up to their contracts, even if they "don't want to" - Having player contracts encourages younger organizations to find and keep talent, because there's a certain amount of protection against bigger teams stealing their players from them I also think it's unprofessional for Riot to condone a player transfer that more or less constitutes player poaching in LCS. | ||
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ketchup
14521 Posts
On April 03 2013 09:17 TheYango wrote: I think that speaks to the immaturity of the scene that something like that happened. But it's something that needs to be handled on the player/team organization level and not at Riot's level. The Chinese and Korean scenes have player/team organizations that handle player/team contracts and monitor transfers for any unscrupulous deals (Kespa in Korea, ACE in China). Western E-sports has yet to form a similar organization among teams. It's actually something that got debated a few months back in the DotA forum--whether such frequent player transfers in Western E-sports is a good thing and whether there should be an organization that manages these sorts of things. Many people disagreed with me, saying that "players shouldn't have to play on teams they don't want to". But my view on it is this: - If you want the scene to be professional, players have to act like professionals. Contracted professionals are required to live up to their contracts, even if they "don't want to" - Having player contracts encourages younger organizations to find and keep talent, because there's a certain amount of protection against bigger teams stealing their players from them I also think it's unprofessional for Riot to condone a player transfer that more or less constitutes player poaching in LCS. This is all that's needs to be said when speaking about LoL "player poaching". A lot of the people playing are really young. I don't know of anyone who would turn down the chance to get paid to do something they love doing. The problem isn't that these trades are occurring because that's only natural. The problem is that these guys don't know how not to burn bridges when there is a better opportunity. It's just immaturity, but it's expected. The overall "age" of LoL competitive scene is fairly young, and combine that with the younger ages of the players makes for a pretty awkward combination.(Just like my sentence structure there dohoho) | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
They realized that people liked the clever side of Trundle, that that was what made people love him. So in the new lore, they tried to make him clever. But he really isn't. His "cleverness" is selling out every single troll in Freljord just so he won't die. Also, to become a chieftain who now has no power because he's controlled by Lissandra. WTF Riot, putting the clever adjective 4-5 times in a story does not make something clever :/ | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On April 03 2013 09:25 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Wow, they just took trundle and shot him in the balls. They realized that people liked the clever side of Trundle, that that was what made people love him. So in the new lore, they tried to make him clever. But he really isn't. His "cleverness" is selling out every single troll in Freljord just so he won't die. Also, to become a chieftain who now has no power because he's controlled by Lissandra. WTF Riot, putting the clever adjective 4-5 times in a story does not make something clever :/ That totally works, riot just taking after the most modern in game storytelling techniques from bliz on a side note honestly who gives a flying fuck about lol lore....its so....unnecesary | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
On April 03 2013 09:23 ketchup wrote: This is all that's needs to be said when speaking about LoL "player poaching". A lot of the people playing are really young. I don't know of anyone who would turn down the chance to get paid to do something they love doing. The problem isn't that these trades are occurring because that's only natural. The problem is that these guys don't know how not to burn bridges when there is a better opportunity. It's just immaturity, but it's expected. The overall "age" of LoL competitive scene is fairly young, and combine that with the younger ages of the players makes for a pretty awkward combination.(Just like my sentence structure there dohoho) on the other hand, the people who are managing are also young. so it's kinda hard to think about until it happens and then even then, like, if it at first it's just a bunch of people getting together and having fun, you don't want to think about having contracts for your friends. like prenuptial agreements. lol. | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
On April 03 2013 09:40 sob3k wrote: That totally works, riot just taking after the most modern in game storytelling techniques from bliz on a side note honestly who gives a flying fuck about lol lore....its so....unnecesary I care about lore! Many people care about lore. Unfortunately, Riot had multiple solid ways of distributing lore that they all shut down :| | ||
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On April 03 2013 09:47 GhandiEAGLE wrote: I care about lore! Many people care about lore. Unfortunately, Riot had multiple solid ways of distributing lore that they all shut down :| Indeed. Lore forms a strong part of the identity and connection that players can build towards intellectual property. For instance, nearly half of the people who bought Starcraft don't play multiplayer. There's a similar figure for titles like Gears of War. It's not solely limited to PC games. A lot of people buy game strictly for story. I mean, look at Bioshock. Who buys that for multiplayer? And it's so important to harness that strong emotional connection that players make to intellectual property. MtG is perhaps the best example of this being done right and it has paid massive dividends. In fact, one of the design goals is explicitly about lore and fluff and the player connections it creates. Just ask Mark Rosewater. | ||
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Parnage
United States7414 Posts
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LateralusGaming
119 Posts
On April 03 2013 09:25 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Wow, they just took trundle and shot him in the balls. They realized that people liked the clever side of Trundle, that that was what made people love him. So in the new lore, they tried to make him clever. But he really isn't. His "cleverness" is selling out every single troll in Freljord just so he won't die. Also, to become a chieftain who now has no power because he's controlled by Lissandra. WTF Riot, putting the clever adjective 4-5 times in a story does not make something clever :/ I definitely enjoyed his lore more before hand. But I'm not complaining about the visual update. I think he looks much better, and I really enjoy the Classic Skin idea too. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On April 03 2013 09:54 MoonBear wrote: Indeed. Lore forms a strong part of the identity and connection that players can build towards intellectual property. For instance, nearly half of the people who bought Starcraft don't play multiplayer. There's a similar figure for titles like Gears of War. It's not solely limited to PC games. A lot of people buy game strictly for story. I mean, look at Bioshock. Who buys that for multiplayer? And it's so important to harness that strong emotional connection that players make to intellectual property. MtG is perhaps the best example of this being done right and it has paid massive dividends. In fact, one of the design goals is explicitly about lore and fluff and the player connections it creates. Just ask Mark Rosewater. yeah....except leagues doesn't have a story mode or single player whatsoever, we all play multiplayer arena matches. I mean whatever, clearly some people enjoy it. It just feels really tacked on given the game. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On April 03 2013 09:40 sob3k wrote: That totally works, riot just taking after the most modern in game storytelling techniques from bliz on a side note honestly who gives a flying fuck about lol lore....its so....unnecesary Is that statement sarcasm? As for champs like Trundle, Ziggs, Karma, etc. that don't get played a lot, I'd say that it's even more telling about what their appeal can be to look at what their players like, because then you have ideas of the aspects you can play on/develop to make the champs on a whole appealing to more people. As in, Trundle isn't liked most probably because he's ugly, monster-like, affiliated with pestilence and other "uncool" stuff (Yorick is liked for his "minion gameplay", not his "gravedigger" gimmick that people often overlook), and what is he liked for? The meta aspect ("dude, in this game a troll really... well, trolls the opponents!"), and the trickiness (his quotes depict him as pretty sardonic/sneering, and his kit gives him a lot of that through his ability to stay on the fence, and symbolically taunt people he just separated from him behind the safety of his pillar in a narrow alley). Riot could expand on those aspects, but they apparently decided to completely overlook them instead, and go back to the "roots" of a troll: it's a big, bulky creature, that is pretty nasty and hard to kill, often seen as dumb or associated with evil. Of course you can't have a champion being a dork (unless it's played for cuteness, like Lulu's otherworldliness or Kog's monstruous "naivete", but Trundle doesn't qualify as "cute"), so you portray him as smarter than his kin, but in a cunning rather than shrewd way to keep the "evil" roots. Then you have a champion who goes from a pestiferous runt to a king: the concepts differ pretty largely, and so you reword his spells to "adapt" them.
In this context, going from Tenacity (hey, Exactly what it says on the tin) to enhanced regeneration, supposed to be more troll-like and playing best with the tough side he supposedly encompasses now. It's not that it couldn't work. It's that it's a much less original thematic, and it takes away from what made Trundle appealing to people who loved him, rather than keep those aspects and expand them+others to find him a public. Gone the lil' bugger that may have been molested all his life by his tribe but will outsmart and outlive the fuck out of you whatever it takes, not he's that guy that steps in front of your house and declares it his own, making sure you can't push him out/outmuscle him. Of course, and to link this to Moonbear's reflection on vertical/horizontal design, there's also the changes applied: now Rabid Bite (fuck those new names, I really prefer the current ones) slows rather than apply AD buff/debuff, now imagine if Trundle kept Tenacity on Contaminate: his Q is a melee-range slow, his W gives him Tenacity and damage if you stay near him [to make use of the AS without kiting], his E is his unique skill [Pillar] and his ult helps his survivability, mainly by way of EHP [drain over time+resistances to strengthen that "heal"]. Mundo has a Q ranged slow [skillshot to sure shot in melee], his W gives him Tenacity and damage if you stay near him [AoE burn], his E is his "unique" skill [compared to Trundle] and his ult helps his survivability, mainly by way of EHP [massive HoT]. I can get that with Tenacity, Trundle would also have shared a whole lot of his aspects with Mundo, and that maybe they wanted to avoid stuff like that. TL;DR: rather than consider what made the few people that liked Trundle, uh, like him, and what didn't work with him, it seems like Riot has started back from scratch and asked themselves "what would people like" without actually asking them, thus probably alienating themselves a lot of the existing base, without creating a new one. Really, barring OP numbers, I expect Trundle to have a rise of popularity (like Karma currently) on relaunch, and then fade back to oblivion as the new incarnation has nothing to ensure players' loyalty. (Also "Lil' Slugger" skin fucking sucks, wtf. The current splash art says it all, especially the "lil' " side of the thing, but with his new model, this is just... well it's as grotesque as now, but in a totally different manner, how can you say "it's still Trundle" with shit like that?) | ||
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WiseBagus
Canada452 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
Even with Pillar and Tenacity from before his ganks were kind of supbar even with red. Hell, even now I dont think trundles teamfighting/pillar is enough of a reason to not just pick like Sej for example over him. Sej has hard CC, a longer/better slow, a gap closer, and the same free tanky stats. | ||
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Dusty
United States3359 Posts
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