• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 09:09
CET 15:09
KST 23:09
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down20ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier6Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League97
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book SC2 Power Rank: epic29 Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.17 How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR?
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers [G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles Mutation # 548 Shining Bright Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Rollback Netcode in Brood War Mathematicians needed to calc "Low Econ Epicness" SCHNAIL now supports Remastered Ziemie's Starcraft 1 Prequel Campaign
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Grand Finals 2v2v2v2 Tournament Stage 1: Community Poll
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Deus Ex 3!? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes?
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7917 users

[Patch 3.03: Quinn] General Discussion - Page 153

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 151 152 153 154 155 176 Next
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
March 15 2013 05:27 GMT
#3041
the only thing about purple side that is good is you get bot lane leash for blue. And this can easily be counteracted by preparing to lane swap when you are blue side. Everything else is in blue side favor
I come in for the scraps
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
March 15 2013 05:28 GMT
#3042
On March 15 2013 12:46 xes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2013 12:29 NeoIllusions wrote:
I ask because I play a lot of board/card games, play with a bunch of friends one night every week. Dice games (like Risk) tilt me so hard. Even cool versions of Risk, like Risk Legacy. Nope, focking snake eyes, fu.

A well designed board game are basically RNG independent as strategy is a dominant factor.

This really comes down to a matter of preference. Some people love the dice-fest Ameritrash games such as King of Tokyo while other prefer what you describe which is more of the Eurogame Agricola style.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
March 15 2013 05:28 GMT
#3043
On March 15 2013 12:48 zodde wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2013 12:13 MoonBear wrote:
On March 15 2013 12:07 zodde wrote:
What is the downside to removing RNG? In what way is RNG a good thing? Crit RNG in LoL isn't that big of a factor on who wins games, but it surely CAN decide a game.

Why are so many people against removing small random advantages that have nothing to do with skill from this game?

Interestingly, this was something discussed before when it came to MtG and TF2. The principle from Richard Garfield was that small amounts of RNG is interesting from a casual and spectator standpoint while not imbalancing the game if designed properly and so long as there is room for people to play correctly while taking random elements into account. This principle was what influenced TF2 to add crits into the game as one of the devs used to work in MtG iirc.

There is so much I could write, but I'll let the man speak for himself. There's also this good Gamasutra article.


Gonna read those, but I guess I can accept the small amount of RNG that lol crits are. I just have burning hatred for RNG since WoW PvP, haven't really heard a good argument for RNG before. If done right, a pseudo-RNG system like the one that LoL is using for crits should be balanced enough for a competative game. Removing the possibility to have crits at lvl 1 would probably be good too (no one ever starts brawler gloves, but perhaps removing crit runes? Small issue anyways), since early game crits have the biggest outcome on a game I'd say.


On the note of BW high ground advantage, 30% damage reduction seems much more reasonable then 30% miss chance. 30% miss chance is a really big random factor, and it could definately decide a game.

Leaving this discussion now, hybrid pen runes sounds like fun ^^


This has been discussed to death but its not a simple issue, the problem is that the precise numbers of hits to kill a unit can have a huge effect on their effectiveness vs each other, a flat damage reduction can hit these break points and massively swing unit interaction.
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
March 15 2013 05:31 GMT
#3044
On March 15 2013 14:28 onlywonderboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2013 12:46 xes wrote:
On March 15 2013 12:29 NeoIllusions wrote:
I ask because I play a lot of board/card games, play with a bunch of friends one night every week. Dice games (like Risk) tilt me so hard. Even cool versions of Risk, like Risk Legacy. Nope, focking snake eyes, fu.

A well designed board game are basically RNG independent as strategy is a dominant factor.

This really comes down to a matter of preference. Some people love the dice-fest Ameritrash games such as King of Tokyo while other prefer what you describe which is more of the Eurogame Agricola style.

False dichotomy. There are games where there exists a nice balance.
liftlift > tsm
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-15 05:36:21
March 15 2013 05:35 GMT
#3045
nvm
Moderator
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-15 05:40:20
March 15 2013 05:40 GMT
#3046
On March 15 2013 14:31 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2013 14:28 onlywonderboy wrote:
On March 15 2013 12:46 xes wrote:
On March 15 2013 12:29 NeoIllusions wrote:
I ask because I play a lot of board/card games, play with a bunch of friends one night every week. Dice games (like Risk) tilt me so hard. Even cool versions of Risk, like Risk Legacy. Nope, focking snake eyes, fu.

A well designed board game are basically RNG independent as strategy is a dominant factor.

This really comes down to a matter of preference. Some people love the dice-fest Ameritrash games such as King of Tokyo while other prefer what you describe which is more of the Eurogame Agricola style.

False dichotomy. There are games where there exists a nice balance.


it's a continuum and preferences lie all along it, idealizing the center or wherever you're pointing at isn't very helpful
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
March 15 2013 05:43 GMT
#3047
list three things you can honestly admit are pretty minor but you wish they'd change about lol

1) I don't like how jungle CS score doesn't reflect their status in the game at all. it's easy to have the same cs as an opposing jungler and be two levels ahead/behind, jungle cs should just reflect each creep's actual contribution compared to a lane creep in XP/Gold.

2) Blade of the ruined king still feels all over the map to me, I feel like it chokes out other items and it just isn't focused. Not a fan of any part of it's design.

3) I wish they'd be more strict about skin's changing effect visibility and champ outlines. eg blackthorn morgana is just like, so much particle spam, it's awful, and iblitzcrank looks too much like volibear to me. The biggest offender I think is that graveyard maokai skin that has the same silhouette as yorick.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
March 15 2013 05:48 GMT
#3048
Blackthorne morg is just such a bizarre skin, I think its the only one in the game that changes such an important skillshot to make it completely unrecognizable.
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
March 15 2013 05:54 GMT
#3049
how about feral aka malphite warwick? that skin drives me crazy
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
March 15 2013 05:55 GMT
#3050
new lux skin and iblitzcrank are so much worse
I come in for the scraps
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
March 15 2013 06:15 GMT
#3051
in some tournament last weekend, manchild Arthelon tried to DQ us for using iBlitzcrank and then used steel legion lux in the next game

how to permanently label yourself a scumbag 101
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
March 15 2013 06:17 GMT
#3052
On March 15 2013 14:31 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2013 14:28 onlywonderboy wrote:
On March 15 2013 12:46 xes wrote:
On March 15 2013 12:29 NeoIllusions wrote:
I ask because I play a lot of board/card games, play with a bunch of friends one night every week. Dice games (like Risk) tilt me so hard. Even cool versions of Risk, like Risk Legacy. Nope, focking snake eyes, fu.

A well designed board game are basically RNG independent as strategy is a dominant factor.

This really comes down to a matter of preference. Some people love the dice-fest Ameritrash games such as King of Tokyo while other prefer what you describe which is more of the Eurogame Agricola style.

False dichotomy. There are games where there exists a nice balance.

Yeah, wasn't saying those are the only two options, just that not everyone thinks the perfect board game is void of RNG. Different strokes and what not.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
March 15 2013 06:24 GMT
#3053
On March 15 2013 14:55 VayneAuthority wrote:
new lux skin and iblitzcrank are so much worse

i havent had to play against iblitzcrank but i fucking hate that new lux skin. It's so much harder to see the Q particle it's ridiculous.
SnK-Arcbound
Profile Joined March 2005
United States4423 Posts
March 15 2013 06:42 GMT
#3054
Does anyone else think of something else when they see the league badge of veteran. Like something along the lines of "stuck in this league" or "elo hell"?
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
March 15 2013 06:57 GMT
#3055
On March 15 2013 15:42 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Does anyone else think of something else when they see the league badge of veteran. Like something along the lines of "stuck in this league" or "elo hell"?

I think "Where they belong."
dae
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada1600 Posts
March 15 2013 06:59 GMT
#3056
On March 15 2013 15:42 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Does anyone else think of something else when they see the league badge of veteran. Like something along the lines of "stuck in this league" or "elo hell"?


Im in Diamond 1 with the veteran badge, and pretty happy where I am.
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
March 15 2013 07:01 GMT
#3057
That moment when the apposing teams lineup in ARAM is Viktor, Nidalee, Caitlyn, Xerath, and Alistar...

<_<
wussleeQ
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States3130 Posts
March 15 2013 07:17 GMT
#3058
i think the lux particles are a lot easier to see on max graphical settings. i never have any problems seeing her skills when i play but if everyone is complaining about it there must be something about it lol
BW -> League -> CSGO
Goumindong
Profile Joined February 2013
United States3529 Posts
March 15 2013 07:39 GMT
#3059
On March 15 2013 11:55 onlywonderboy wrote:
But his point is that while the crit may have won Heartbeattt the lane, that single crit wasn't the single deciding factor in MRN winning the game.


Again, it doesn't have to be the "single deciding factor". When errors add up over time, it becomes difficult to distinguish the error from the skill. He auto wins his lane at level 2 which allows him to take advantage in another situation down the line he would not have otherwise.

In order to make your claim it must be the case that being stronger doesn't matter or that winning fights doesn't make you relatively stronger than you would be otherwise.

Whether you feel its worth it is another issue, but whether or not it decides games is not something that can be argued without also arguing that being stronger doesn't matter or that winning fights doesn't make you relatively stronger or that crits simply cannot effect the outcome of an engagement at any point in the game.

On March 15 2013 13:04 Purge wrote:

I hate to be "that guy" but I really dont want to believe this is true unless I see proof. Thats a very big statement/assumption that undermines alot of players decisions - because you are essentially saying that to some degree player decisions dont matter if they have blue side or that more often than not blue side will inevitably win if you have 2 equally skilled opponents.

So please, if you know where I can find stats to prove that, link


Just because a side has advantages does not mean that player decisions don't matter. Think about the converse of that statement "If player decisions matter its impossible that one side is advantaged over another" which is ridiculous.

White has a pretty well documented advantage in Chess but that doesn't mean your decisions as Black don't matter.
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
March 15 2013 09:27 GMT
#3060
Kind of out of the blue, but I feel like Dr Mundo really really strong right now in the jungle. If you go E-W-Q, R>E>Q>W

His E is a silly strong single target DPS steroid, and was always one of the better clearing skills season 1, but no one recognized it S2. He plays in S3 much like he did in S2, except he maxes E over W; Clear at ridiculous speeds, then just overgank the hell out of mid+top. He also like only jungler right now that flat out gains nothing in terms of jungle clear/Ganks from blue buff. You can donate your first one off to your mid laner and watch them beat on, out push, and out gank their lane opponent ezpz.

Literally all the itemization changes were huge buffs to Mundo. All of them... Mundo never could start boots, needed the cloth, but movement changes means he gets boots free, much better early ganking now. Mundo always wanted to bum rush HP now HP itemization cheaper and better than ever. All the OP team items he loves, Locket especially good on him, makes his ult so strong because while they burn through shield he regen like 600+ hp. He even loves BtoRK if he getting fed enough because the attack speed is really really good with his 150+ AD steroid E..

Not to mention, the fact that every one is now building ridiculous amounts of HP and not buying anywhere near as much resists as they used to makes his cleaver much much stronger. His Q doing 25% damage of 2.5k HP minus 200 MR was only like 150 damage... now people building like 3-4k HP minus like 60 MR is like 700 damage every 4 seconds.

Aside from his first clear which is a little bit sketchy, he real strong all game. Even early levels his dueling disgusting when you have like 3 levels in his E... Basically +100 AD for free.

Try him out TL, you might be surprised.
Prev 1 151 152 153 154 155 176 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
23:00
King of the Hill #266
EmpressLilyy17
Liquipedia
OSC
21:00
OSC 5000
WardiTV666
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ByuN 651
IndyStarCraft 95
mcanning 59
SHIN 55
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 1954
Shuttle 1581
Horang2 952
EffOrt 952
Soulkey 673
BeSt 641
Mini 375
Soma 364
firebathero 228
hero 192
[ Show more ]
Snow 135
Zeus 117
Mind 116
Last 114
Hyun 83
Pusan 75
sorry 73
Sea.KH 57
Barracks 47
Bishop 40
ToSsGirL 39
Yoon 35
Classic 33
Noble 30
910 25
LancerX 22
soO 22
Free 21
Trap 20
Rock 13
yabsab 13
Sacsri 9
Icarus 6
Dota 2
Gorgc12867
Counter-Strike
x6flipin362
Other Games
singsing2017
B2W.Neo1614
Liquid`RaSZi1135
Mlord533
DeMusliM444
XaKoH 292
Pyrionflax290
mouzStarbuck238
Livibee196
QueenE31
RotterdaM15
KnowMe3
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL1830
Other Games
ComeBackTV 387
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 10
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 14
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2529
• WagamamaTV599
Upcoming Events
Yamato Cup
52m
IPSL
2h 52m
Artosis vs RiceHat
Kyrie vs Sony
Map Test Tournament
8h 52m
WardiTV Weekly
21h 52m
Ultimate Battle
21h 52m
Rush vs BeSt
Replay Cast
1d 8h
Rogue vs Classic
Patches Events
1d 22h
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
[ Show More ]
KCM Race Survival
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
IPSL
6 days
WorsT vs nOmaD
Dewalt vs andersOn
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-30
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

1xBet Invitational
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.