EPT[Patch 3.03: Quinn] General Discussion - Page 151
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
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Chrispy
Canada5878 Posts
On March 15 2013 11:04 MoonBear wrote: I originally thought it meant Starcraft. Good to see there's still the BW undercurrent around. Also talking fast is good. Klazart talking fast & fun (c wut i did there?) got me into brood war and eventually led me to TL. <3 Klazart. I made a reddit post when I first created that video but it did not survive, redditors are very hard to please. Happy to see it get some love here though, making videos is ridiculously time consuming when you suck at it. | ||
onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On March 15 2013 11:04 MoonBear wrote: I originally thought it meant Starcraft. Good to see there's still the BW undercurrent around. Also talking fast is good. Makes me feel like I'm left out of the cool club for cool kids. | ||
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zodde
Sweden1908 Posts
I really hate RNG from my WoW pvp days, and I strongly believe a competative game shouldn't have any random factors. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
The conclusion that people came to back then was that while, yes, 30% miss chance is random, and it does win/lose games, fights where it's deciding are controllable. You can't control 30% miss chance or crit chance, but you CAN control when and where you fight--it is your choice to choose a fight that COULD be decided by a crit, and in many cases, it is not the correct play to do so. While it's true that crit/30% high ground miss chance can decide games, the cases where it was the correct play for a team to willingly commit to a fight that is so close as to be decided by a single crit are actually not as common as people are stating (and even when they do exist, it had to have taken a long series of misplays for the game to reach that state at all in the first place). Insofar as we're talking about the possibility of a better team beating a worse team due to the luck of a crit--the better team will not gamble on the possibility of throwing the game by losing a 5v5 that could be decided by a crit. Since they are the better team, they will extend their advantage through ways that are non-random and take fights when that crit won't screw them over. On March 15 2013 10:01 zulu_nation8 wrote: you pot up or go back heal and miss a wave, not that big of a deal like i said Not to mention that the link from losing your lane to losing the game is so far gone as to be absurd. | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On March 15 2013 11:36 TheYango wrote: Honestly speaking, with all of these hypotheticals, can anyone actually cite game where a team that played better actually lost the game because of one crit? Because quite frankly, a team that consistently plays better is almost never going to get into a scenario against a worse team where a crit will lose them the game. If we're talking about a super-close game between two teams of virtually equal skill level, blue/purple imbalance swings games far more than crits do. heartbeattt admitted to free-winning botlane in game 2 of LCS qualifiers against DnG by critting with ezreal Q at level 2, forcing hi im ecko to miss a wave and a half i'm pretty sure he even said so on this very forum | ||
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samthesaluki
914 Posts
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On March 15 2013 11:47 gtrsrs wrote: heartbeattt admitted to free-winning botlane in game 2 of LCS qualifiers against DnG by critting with ezreal Q at level 2, forcing hi im ecko to miss a wave and a half i'm pretty sure he even said so on this very forum But his point is that while the crit may have won Heartbeattt the lane, that single crit wasn't the single deciding factor in MRN winning the game. | ||
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Zooper31
United States5710 Posts
On March 15 2013 11:55 onlywonderboy wrote: But his point is that while the crit may have won Heartbeattt the lane, that single crit wasn't the single deciding factor in MRN winning the game. That single crit just made them win 1/3 lanes. Thats a big deal. | ||
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zodde
Sweden1908 Posts
Why are so many people against removing small random advantages that have nothing to do with skill from this game? Edit: Blue/purple imbalance is a bigger issue, does that mean that every smaller imbalance should be ignored? | ||
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On March 15 2013 12:07 zodde wrote: What is the downside to removing RNG? In what way is RNG a good thing? Crit RNG in LoL isn't that big of a factor on who wins games, but it surely CAN decide a game. Why are so many people against removing small random advantages that have nothing to do with skill from this game? Interestingly, this was something discussed before when it came to MtG and TF2. The principle from Richard Garfield was that small amounts of RNG is interesting from a casual and spectator standpoint while not imbalancing the game if designed properly and so long as there is room for people to play correctly while taking random elements into account. This principle was what influenced TF2 to add crits into the game as one of the devs used to work in MtG iirc. There is so much I could write, but I'll let the man speak for himself. There's also this good Gamasutra article. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 15 2013 12:07 zodde wrote: What is the downside to removing RNG? In what way is RNG a good thing? Crit RNG in LoL isn't that big of a factor on who wins games, but it surely CAN decide a game. Why are so many people against removing small random advantages that have nothing to do with skill from this game? Edit: Blue/purple imbalance is a bigger issue, does that mean that every smaller imbalance should be ignored? On March 15 2013 02:53 TheYango wrote: The flip side of this is that the dichotomy between "who won" and "who played better" adds a level of skill and game understanding to the game--where being able to make that distinction is important to one's growth as a player. The oft-used mantra in other games involving randomness and incomplete information (e.g. Poker, M:tG) is "a good player will make the right play even if he lost doing it the last 9 times out of 10". We have now reached the point of repeating things said 9 hours ago. I think that's the sign to move on to a new topic of discussion. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On March 15 2013 09:06 Craton wrote: The reason they didn't do this is because they didn't want guaranteed crits on enemy champions that you could just charge up on minions. Having separate meters for players and minions is just convoluted, as is an arbitrarily reduced amount for hitting minions instead of champions or removing the ability to crit minions. In any event, I hate any and all forms of RNG in games. Do you play any board or card games? | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On March 15 2013 12:15 TheYango wrote: We have now reached the point of repeating things said 9 hours ago. I think that's the sign to move on to a new topic of discussion. So how good are hybrid pen runes? I keep seeing them mentioned in LCS; they seemed to be used on non-hybrid champs as well. Old Man Craton probably lost one too many monopoly games as a child. Or probably loss his D&D character to fortitude check or something. | ||
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samthesaluki
914 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On March 15 2013 12:27 wei2coolman wrote: Old Man Craton probably lost one too many monopoly games as a child. Or probably loss his D&D character to fortitude check or something. It's not always RNG, one way or the other, though.  | ||
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