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really the only thing riot has to do is to communicate VERY FREAKING CLEARLY that you shouldn't ever claim roles or even fight over roles with someone who picks before you. Claiming/fighting over roles should be a reportable offense. Attacking someone for picking a role if that player picks before you should be a reportable offense. Making an exclusive selection of roles you will ever play should be a reportable offense.
everything that doesn't sound super f'cking nice and humble during champ select should be a reportable offense. 0 tolerance is what champ select needs, because atm it is one of the most disgusting kind of communication i ever came across. Players stressing eachothers out, making threats and general flaming backed by near to 0 sense.
at least 3 out of 5 champ selections are terrible experiences. I completely have to ignore the chat for most of the time and cannot use it for conversation or strategic communication. It gets better during the game because you can actually mute that 1 guy who keeps on dragging ppl down and since everyone does that these days the chat becomes useful again. but champ select is a nightmare.
Also there will never be a reasonable way that does not follow the picking order for taking lane positions/roles. The only thing that should be a possibility is a lower seeded player to ask nicely for a role once or twice at most.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 14 2013 04:09 overt wrote:
I personally believe it's still really weird that solo queue has so little team work or coordination yet is considered the de facto measurement of skill. I'm glad that Riot is doing stuff like letting teams who qualify in ranked 5s go pro to make ranked 5s attractive but solo queue is still a measurement of skill when in my opinion ranked 5s should be what people who are actually serious about this game play. Solo queue should be a fun quick way to play without organizing people. The quickest and easiest way to get into a game as a role you want to play would be with something that lets you pick which roles you want to play.
Because until you reach a very high level, there's a ridiculous amount of individual skill you can gain from solo queue, and it will have more relevance than many of the team-oriented factors.
Solo queue is a very different game from arranged play due to the coordination issues of course--but the amount in which you can improve in the individual aspects of the game is still extremely high and they apply to both arranged and solo play.
On March 14 2013 04:09 overt wrote:
It'd be super easy for Riot to see that person A queue'd up for Support/Jungle/ADC and then locked in Irelia and got reported by their whole team for trolling the queue. Certainly a lot easier than it is now.
What if they played jungle Irelia and their team just reported them for picking something non-standard?
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On March 14 2013 04:19 TheYango wrote:
What if they played jungle Irelia and their team just reported them for picking something non-standard?
Riot can still see what summoner's you ran. Even ignoring that though I think if, "people are going to be trolls," is a credible argument than nothing can ever work. People troll the current system. They'd troll any system. Catering to how trolls behave isn't what Riot should be doing in either case.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 14 2013 04:24 overt wrote:
Catering to how trolls behave isn't what Riot should be doing in either case.
Likewise, if people are going to troll regardless, Riot shouldn't implement a system that impedes everyone else's experience just for the sake of trying to reign in trolls (which would be the point of role queues in the first place--if people didn't rage/troll then we'd have perfectly civil role assignment in champ select anyway).
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So stepping away from this role-calling talk for a second, how to people feel about AD's starting with a red pot in lane?
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On March 14 2013 04:25 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 04:24 overt wrote:
Catering to how trolls behave isn't what Riot should be doing in either case. Likewise, if people are going to troll regardless, Riot shouldn't implement a system that impedes everyone else's experience just for the sake of trying to reign in trolls (which would be the point of role queues in the first place--if people didn't rage/troll then we'd have perfectly civil role assignment in champ select anyway).
They just need to come out and say; whoever gets first pick, gets their pick. Shouldn't be this difficult.
On March 14 2013 04:27 Koenig99 wrote:
So stepping away from this role-calling talk for a second, how to people feel about AD's starting with a red pot in lane?
Most ADC's don't scale in pre-level 3 that well; so aside from heal baiting with fort port; it's not that amazing for ADC's early on.
Should also be looking to be fairly passive in lane anyways. Almost always better to start with other lane starts.
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On March 14 2013 04:25 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 04:24 overt wrote:
Catering to how trolls behave isn't what Riot should be doing in either case. Likewise, if people are going to troll regardless, Riot shouldn't implement a system that impedes everyone else's experience just for the sake of trying to reign in trolls (which would be the point of role queues in the first place--if people didn't rage/troll then we'd have perfectly civil role assignment in champ select anyway).
Maybe. Except if you organized a 5s game you'd discuss what roles everyone is playing before hand. If you and eight friends went to go play baseball you'd probably all say what positions you'd prefer and then figure out who's playing what.
There's nothing wrong with a system that let's people pick one, two, three, or four roles they want to play. Or simply pick, "I don't care." The only good argument I've heard is that it could make queue times longer but if you just picked "any" as your role then it wouldn't even be an issue.
If civil people got into a pre-game lobby and saw that three of their players had a role preference towards mid, support, and jungle then it would eliminate the need for communication between three players and prevent pointless disagreements or confusion over who's playing what.
I don't think it's something that needs to be done ASAP. I do think it's something for Riot to consider implementing down the road.
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United States23745 Posts
On March 14 2013 04:27 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 04:25 TheYango wrote:On March 14 2013 04:24 overt wrote:
Catering to how trolls behave isn't what Riot should be doing in either case. Likewise, if people are going to troll regardless, Riot shouldn't implement a system that impedes everyone else's experience just for the sake of trying to reign in trolls (which would be the point of role queues in the first place--if people didn't rage/troll then we'd have perfectly civil role assignment in champ select anyway). They just need to come out and say; whoever gets first pick, gets their pick. Shouldn't be this difficult.
Pretty much this. Riot hasn't ever come out and said pick order > call order. The Summoners Code is kind of vague on the issue. Their official stance has pretty much "don't be a dick, work with your team" but they seem to be admitting this is easier said than done.
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On March 14 2013 04:29 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 04:25 TheYango wrote:On March 14 2013 04:24 overt wrote:
Catering to how trolls behave isn't what Riot should be doing in either case. Likewise, if people are going to troll regardless, Riot shouldn't implement a system that impedes everyone else's experience just for the sake of trying to reign in trolls (which would be the point of role queues in the first place--if people didn't rage/troll then we'd have perfectly civil role assignment in champ select anyway). Maybe. Except if you organized a 5s game you'd discuss what roles everyone is playing before hand. If you and eight friends went to go play baseball you'd probably all say what positions you'd prefer and then figure out who's playing what. There's nothing wrong with a system that let's people pick one, two, three, or four roles they want to play. Or simply pick, "I don't care." The only good argument I've heard is that it could make queue times longer but if you just picked "any" as your role then it wouldn't even be an issue. If civil people got into a pre-game lobby and saw that three of their players had a role preference towards mid, support, and jungle then it would eliminate the need for communication between three players and prevent pointless disagreements or confusion over who's playing what. I don't think it's something that needs to be done ASAP. I do think it's something for Riot to consider implementing down the road.
did you completely ignore the "forces meta" argument?
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Actually the solution is very simple.Riot need to grow some fucking balls and start banning people(for legitimate reasons ofc).If people were actually scared that they might lose their acc do you think they'd behave like this?Sadly the only thing most people understand is fear and for some reason riot don't use this(as a matter of fact the entire human race doesn't but that is another story).
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On March 14 2013 04:31 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 04:29 overt wrote:On March 14 2013 04:25 TheYango wrote:On March 14 2013 04:24 overt wrote:
Catering to how trolls behave isn't what Riot should be doing in either case. Likewise, if people are going to troll regardless, Riot shouldn't implement a system that impedes everyone else's experience just for the sake of trying to reign in trolls (which would be the point of role queues in the first place--if people didn't rage/troll then we'd have perfectly civil role assignment in champ select anyway). Maybe. Except if you organized a 5s game you'd discuss what roles everyone is playing before hand. If you and eight friends went to go play baseball you'd probably all say what positions you'd prefer and then figure out who's playing what. There's nothing wrong with a system that let's people pick one, two, three, or four roles they want to play. Or simply pick, "I don't care." The only good argument I've heard is that it could make queue times longer but if you just picked "any" as your role then it wouldn't even be an issue. If civil people got into a pre-game lobby and saw that three of their players had a role preference towards mid, support, and jungle then it would eliminate the need for communication between three players and prevent pointless disagreements or confusion over who's playing what. I don't think it's something that needs to be done ASAP. I do think it's something for Riot to consider implementing down the road. did you completely ignore the "forces meta" argument?
That's not a good argument because it doesn't force a meta. Riot would likely make the labels something like Mage, Bruiser, Carry, Support, and Jungler. They can also have extra tags. SagaZ had a good post on the last page about a possible way to do it. If you have multiple tags there's no reason you couldn't run three mages in the game and not have a support or AD carry.
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On March 14 2013 04:34 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 04:31 wei2coolman wrote:On March 14 2013 04:29 overt wrote:On March 14 2013 04:25 TheYango wrote:On March 14 2013 04:24 overt wrote:
Catering to how trolls behave isn't what Riot should be doing in either case. Likewise, if people are going to troll regardless, Riot shouldn't implement a system that impedes everyone else's experience just for the sake of trying to reign in trolls (which would be the point of role queues in the first place--if people didn't rage/troll then we'd have perfectly civil role assignment in champ select anyway). Maybe. Except if you organized a 5s game you'd discuss what roles everyone is playing before hand. If you and eight friends went to go play baseball you'd probably all say what positions you'd prefer and then figure out who's playing what. There's nothing wrong with a system that let's people pick one, two, three, or four roles they want to play. Or simply pick, "I don't care." The only good argument I've heard is that it could make queue times longer but if you just picked "any" as your role then it wouldn't even be an issue. If civil people got into a pre-game lobby and saw that three of their players had a role preference towards mid, support, and jungle then it would eliminate the need for communication between three players and prevent pointless disagreements or confusion over who's playing what. I don't think it's something that needs to be done ASAP. I do think it's something for Riot to consider implementing down the road. did you completely ignore the "forces meta" argument? That's not a good argument because it doesn't force a meta. Riot would likely make the labels something like Mage, Bruiser, Carry, Support, and Jungler. They can also have extra tags. SagaZ had a good post on the last page about a possible way to do it. If you have multiple tags there's no reason you couldn't run three mages in the game and not have a support or AD carry.
Tags are just as vague as anything else
also.
Metagame stagnating is a non issue, as long as 2 solos 1 duo 1 jungle is the way to play the game, role picking before queueing will not make it any less innovative.
I don't think he understands the meaning of "metagame"
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United States23745 Posts
On March 14 2013 04:37 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 04:34 overt wrote:On March 14 2013 04:31 wei2coolman wrote:On March 14 2013 04:29 overt wrote:On March 14 2013 04:25 TheYango wrote:On March 14 2013 04:24 overt wrote:
Catering to how trolls behave isn't what Riot should be doing in either case. Likewise, if people are going to troll regardless, Riot shouldn't implement a system that impedes everyone else's experience just for the sake of trying to reign in trolls (which would be the point of role queues in the first place--if people didn't rage/troll then we'd have perfectly civil role assignment in champ select anyway). Maybe. Except if you organized a 5s game you'd discuss what roles everyone is playing before hand. If you and eight friends went to go play baseball you'd probably all say what positions you'd prefer and then figure out who's playing what. There's nothing wrong with a system that let's people pick one, two, three, or four roles they want to play. Or simply pick, "I don't care." The only good argument I've heard is that it could make queue times longer but if you just picked "any" as your role then it wouldn't even be an issue. If civil people got into a pre-game lobby and saw that three of their players had a role preference towards mid, support, and jungle then it would eliminate the need for communication between three players and prevent pointless disagreements or confusion over who's playing what. I don't think it's something that needs to be done ASAP. I do think it's something for Riot to consider implementing down the road. did you completely ignore the "forces meta" argument? That's not a good argument because it doesn't force a meta. Riot would likely make the labels something like Mage, Bruiser, Carry, Support, and Jungler. They can also have extra tags. SagaZ had a good post on the last page about a possible way to do it. If you have multiple tags there's no reason you couldn't run three mages in the game and not have a support or AD carry. Tags are just as vague as anything else also. Show nested quote +Metagame stagnating is a non issue, as long as 2 solos 1 duo 1 jungle is the way to play the game, role picking before queueing will not make it any less innovative. I don't think he understands the meaning of "metagame"
I'm against the "queue for role" solution, but Riot already does plenty in terms of supporting the current meta (nerfing champs when not played in their intended role, designing champs that fit the meta, ect).
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On March 14 2013 04:42 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 04:37 wei2coolman wrote:On March 14 2013 04:34 overt wrote:On March 14 2013 04:31 wei2coolman wrote:On March 14 2013 04:29 overt wrote:On March 14 2013 04:25 TheYango wrote:On March 14 2013 04:24 overt wrote:
Catering to how trolls behave isn't what Riot should be doing in either case. Likewise, if people are going to troll regardless, Riot shouldn't implement a system that impedes everyone else's experience just for the sake of trying to reign in trolls (which would be the point of role queues in the first place--if people didn't rage/troll then we'd have perfectly civil role assignment in champ select anyway). Maybe. Except if you organized a 5s game you'd discuss what roles everyone is playing before hand. If you and eight friends went to go play baseball you'd probably all say what positions you'd prefer and then figure out who's playing what. There's nothing wrong with a system that let's people pick one, two, three, or four roles they want to play. Or simply pick, "I don't care." The only good argument I've heard is that it could make queue times longer but if you just picked "any" as your role then it wouldn't even be an issue. If civil people got into a pre-game lobby and saw that three of their players had a role preference towards mid, support, and jungle then it would eliminate the need for communication between three players and prevent pointless disagreements or confusion over who's playing what. I don't think it's something that needs to be done ASAP. I do think it's something for Riot to consider implementing down the road. did you completely ignore the "forces meta" argument? That's not a good argument because it doesn't force a meta. Riot would likely make the labels something like Mage, Bruiser, Carry, Support, and Jungler. They can also have extra tags. SagaZ had a good post on the last page about a possible way to do it. If you have multiple tags there's no reason you couldn't run three mages in the game and not have a support or AD carry. Tags are just as vague as anything else also. Metagame stagnating is a non issue, as long as 2 solos 1 duo 1 jungle is the way to play the game, role picking before queueing will not make it any less innovative. I don't think he understands the meaning of "metagame" I'm against the "queue for role" solution, but Riot already does plenty in terms of supporting the current meta (nerfing champs when not played in their intended role, designing champs that fit the meta, ect).
It's like people forgot that season 1 league was vastly different than season 2 league.
Also, just because Riot does do these things; doesn't mean they were the right solution or choices. It just means Riot is dumb as fuck sometimes.
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On March 14 2013 04:34 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 04:31 wei2coolman wrote:On March 14 2013 04:29 overt wrote:On March 14 2013 04:25 TheYango wrote:On March 14 2013 04:24 overt wrote:
Catering to how trolls behave isn't what Riot should be doing in either case. Likewise, if people are going to troll regardless, Riot shouldn't implement a system that impedes everyone else's experience just for the sake of trying to reign in trolls (which would be the point of role queues in the first place--if people didn't rage/troll then we'd have perfectly civil role assignment in champ select anyway). Maybe. Except if you organized a 5s game you'd discuss what roles everyone is playing before hand. If you and eight friends went to go play baseball you'd probably all say what positions you'd prefer and then figure out who's playing what. There's nothing wrong with a system that let's people pick one, two, three, or four roles they want to play. Or simply pick, "I don't care." The only good argument I've heard is that it could make queue times longer but if you just picked "any" as your role then it wouldn't even be an issue. If civil people got into a pre-game lobby and saw that three of their players had a role preference towards mid, support, and jungle then it would eliminate the need for communication between three players and prevent pointless disagreements or confusion over who's playing what. I don't think it's something that needs to be done ASAP. I do think it's something for Riot to consider implementing down the road. did you completely ignore the "forces meta" argument? That's not a good argument because it doesn't force a meta. Riot would likely make the labels something like Mage, Bruiser, Carry, Support, and Jungler. They can also have extra tags. SagaZ had a good post on the last page about a possible way to do it. If you have multiple tags there's no reason you couldn't run three mages in the game and not have a support or AD carry.
That really wouldn't work though, since you're not communicating to your team beforehand that you're not doing a non-meta teamcomp. If you want to play AD, and all the sudden your queue pops with 3 people saying "we're going to do a three mage comp with no AD/support", then what?
And if they're just tags that don't determine/denote actual roles, then what's the difference between that and saying your preference at the start of picks/bans like now? Either it has to be a hard lock system that punishes people for straying from their queue'd role, or you're not changing anything. LoL doesn't need a "LFG system", it just needs people to get banned for not respecting pick order.
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United States47024 Posts
The solo queue "metagame" is always going to be "I'm gonna pick what I want and you guys aren't going to stop me".
The only thing that changed is the penalty for dodging.
On March 14 2013 04:43 Requizen wrote:LoL doesn't need a "LFG system", it just needs people to get banned for not respecting pick order.
Can we just all accept this and drop the argument here?
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I brought it up before; but even if Rune Page was half the price, 95% of player base would choose 3150 ip champion over 3150 ip runepage.
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United States23745 Posts
On March 14 2013 04:42 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 04:42 onlywonderboy wrote:On March 14 2013 04:37 wei2coolman wrote:On March 14 2013 04:34 overt wrote:On March 14 2013 04:31 wei2coolman wrote:On March 14 2013 04:29 overt wrote:On March 14 2013 04:25 TheYango wrote:On March 14 2013 04:24 overt wrote:
Catering to how trolls behave isn't what Riot should be doing in either case. Likewise, if people are going to troll regardless, Riot shouldn't implement a system that impedes everyone else's experience just for the sake of trying to reign in trolls (which would be the point of role queues in the first place--if people didn't rage/troll then we'd have perfectly civil role assignment in champ select anyway). Maybe. Except if you organized a 5s game you'd discuss what roles everyone is playing before hand. If you and eight friends went to go play baseball you'd probably all say what positions you'd prefer and then figure out who's playing what. There's nothing wrong with a system that let's people pick one, two, three, or four roles they want to play. Or simply pick, "I don't care." The only good argument I've heard is that it could make queue times longer but if you just picked "any" as your role then it wouldn't even be an issue. If civil people got into a pre-game lobby and saw that three of their players had a role preference towards mid, support, and jungle then it would eliminate the need for communication between three players and prevent pointless disagreements or confusion over who's playing what. I don't think it's something that needs to be done ASAP. I do think it's something for Riot to consider implementing down the road. did you completely ignore the "forces meta" argument? That's not a good argument because it doesn't force a meta. Riot would likely make the labels something like Mage, Bruiser, Carry, Support, and Jungler. They can also have extra tags. SagaZ had a good post on the last page about a possible way to do it. If you have multiple tags there's no reason you couldn't run three mages in the game and not have a support or AD carry. Tags are just as vague as anything else also. Metagame stagnating is a non issue, as long as 2 solos 1 duo 1 jungle is the way to play the game, role picking before queueing will not make it any less innovative. I don't think he understands the meaning of "metagame" I'm against the "queue for role" solution, but Riot already does plenty in terms of supporting the current meta (nerfing champs when not played in their intended role, designing champs that fit the meta, ect). It's like people forgot that season 1 league was vastly different than season 2 league. Also, just because Riot does do these things; doesn't mean they were the right solution or choices. It just means Riot is dumb as fuck sometimes.
Looking back in the future I expect Season 1 to be an outlier. Season 2 was played a very specif way, and aside from a few minor changes the Season 3 meta is pretty similar (in terms of roles, different champs picked of course). Honestly I don't see it changing much in the future. The meta game in terms of picks will change while the specific roles stay the same.
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On March 14 2013 04:46 wei2coolman wrote:I brought it up before; but even if Rune Page was half the price, 95% of player base would choose 3150 ip champion over 3150 ip runepage.
I've spent more IP on runes/runepages than champions (and no RP on champion) time to hit 20 pages and all the runes with only like 23 champions l0l
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EPT
