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I think Nami's pretty good, just that there's a lot of potential to mess things up with her. She's not a champion you can really play casually. You need to put in a good number of games with her to master her mechanics and how to play her properly.
Overall, I enjoy her a lot and think she can be powerful. Imagine Janna with good harass, weaker peel, and stronger initiation, and that's pretty much Nami.
On March 11 2013 07:52 Sermokala wrote:
Everything I've heard and seen about nami is badness. Shes a jack of all trades master of none. She's going to be outclassed in something by every other support and its going to be very hard for you to consistently use your other qualities to win the lane.
Zyra is really good and so is lulu. They have their plus's and minus's, I'd say that there isn't anything better then a good zyra in lane although I've never seen a good build for her.
I wouldn't really consider her a Jack of all trades, because that implies that she's inferior to more specialized supports in terms of her ability to have an impact, and that's not really true. She does lots of things well, just that her ability to do everything well is balanced out by the risk built into her kit. Pretty much every one of her abilities is flubbable in some way, and they're not hard to mess up either.
Her overall damage output is pretty mediocre though, outside of her poke which is very strong. Probably needs some buffs to her base damage and/or AP ratios.
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Remember when sona was the "jack of all trades master of none?" 
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On March 11 2013 04:33 chroniX wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 04:29 wei2coolman wrote:
Ehhh, their teamchat is quite a bit different with Nyjacky. They can rely on Nyjacky at least 10 times more than they can Liquid... Liquid stopped playing pro for a LONG time already. He was just there as a place holder.
As a huge Curse stream watcher; I can definitely tell you their communication in serious scrims is completely different than what we saw last night. well i have to take your word on that but imo it is looking very grim for teams like that.
I'm going to take a blind guess that you're from Europe where this attitude seems prevalent. Here in NA, people are a lot more liberal about watching teams that do well rather than what region they're from. Meanwhile at IEM Hannover, the twitch chat can look eerily like a Stormfront chatroom at EU hours.
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On March 11 2013 08:01 BlackPaladin wrote:Remember when sona was the "jack of all trades master of none?"
When was this?I joined in the end of s1 and she has been a top pick since then.Even when I played some cups and stuff she was fp/ban pretty much always lol.
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On March 11 2013 06:51 Alaric wrote:
Picked up Cass, maxed Q first, after somebody asked me "Why not E first? Isn't it what people did?" I decided to try it, plus they picked Ryze afterwards and Cass is viewed as one of his hardest counters in lane. So it should be safe to try, right?
So I maxed E first against Ryze. I'm dumb, right?
(Their jungle Elise ganked twice before level 5, and again twice before I got 7, despite the wards he just kept trying. While it certainly pissed me off it didn't seem to have any influence on the fact that Ryze outtraded me everytime I was in range to use E, plus E's animation is too slow to Q->E->walk back and kite without Ryze getting a W (and hence full combo) off.)
It's not actually that safe of a counter if you have no idea what you're doing.
Easiest way to beat Ryze early (ie level 2-3 or so) is let him walk up and rune prison you- while the animation is going off you have a free q (since you know exactly where he's going to stand), then just wail on him with e until he's dead (and ignite him), since you do more damage than he does. A lot of bad Ryze's get surprised by this. Don't attempt this until the enemy jungler reveals where he is, or you're just asking to die.
It's not exactly a cake walk matchup because the enemy jungler is generally going to be all up on your grill- having them in your lane constantly isn't exactly super uncommon. You should generally win 2v2 fights if your jungler shows up and you do your job. Still, Cass isn't exactly super easy to play in teamfights, so if you aren't used to her, it can be difficult to leverage the any advantage if you get ahead. And if you get behind, Ryze is still Ryze...
Max e first is fine, although 2-3 levels of q helps you farm. Also warding properly so you know where the enemy jungler is helps a lot (ie, ward one side so you can favor the other side and walk away that way). Cass is really bad at dealing with multiple people in her face when she isn't expecting it, so try not to ever get in that situation in the first place.
I also find getting a fast Abyssal's Scepter+Giant's Belt helps a lot- if you survive the initial burst from Ryze, you do a lot more sustained damage than him. Also Cass is super squishy, you generally need to run hp/level seals on her because her health at level 18 is among the lowest in the game (8th lowest).
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http://www.newsoflegends.com/index.php/the-big-four-5352/
Anyone else hate tier lists or pseudo tier discussions like this? I find it one of the biggest reasons why picks stagnate as articles similar to this just procreates more of the "well X article said these are the best picks so I have to do it".
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France45622 Posts
These things aren't mutually exclusive.  I think he's cheeky with how Sona was closer to "master of all trades" at one point, because while she was be 2nd in everything she did, she was pretty damn close to the 1st and he paled against her in other areas.
And I'd say Thresh too. The problem with Nami is that I don't really see her making plays, as her spells lend themselves much better at following-up/countering, rather than initiate/make things happen. In that sense, she's risky like Leona because you have to coordinate with your AD. Especially her heal: unless you get several bounces it's not really gonna be worth the mana it costs, and for this you need either your carry to be near an enemy, or somebody to be close to both enemies. In those situations you want to stay wary and be ready in case of enemy initiation, but if you can't know how your carry will react...
Thresh is kinda like Blitz with peeling second only to Janna/Lulu: you don't use the hook, you use its availability to zone people. You have no sustain and pretty limited range, so you have to make sure you keep bush control and apply pressure, otherwise poke lanes will destroy you (his Q passive is absurdly strong, but his 475 aa range generally makes you take hits in return unless you punish last hits). Plus the lantern is so rewarding if you use it well to set up ganks and escapes.
Edit: thanks for the Cass advice, I'll move it to her thread.
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On March 11 2013 08:15 KissBlade wrote:http://www.newsoflegends.com/index.php/the-big-four-5352/Anyone else hate tier lists or pseudo tier discussions like this? I find it one of the biggest reasons why picks stagnate as articles similar to this just procreates more of the "well X article said these are the best picks so I have to do it".
Well. He does have some decent points. Like how the Amumu, Lee Sin, and Nocturne nerfs are now unnecessary and really pinch who is a good choice. Others like Olaf also got nuked more recently so what are you gonna do?
Other than that, tier lists are typically silly because they are consensus opinions, which everyone knows anyways. It would be nice if we had a TL "Backroom" tier list, but its only for fun and provoking interesting discussion.
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On March 11 2013 07:10 SnK-Arcbound wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 05:49 little fancy wrote:
Holy shit. We have a team where the leader didn't play for ages. We went to gold II and then he returned one day, claiming it was "his" team and that we have to play with him or he would delete the team. Now we are gold V and play no more l0l. So let him delete the team and play without him.
yeah I don't see the issue. Play without him, with that attitude he'd better buy four more computers if he wants a ranked team. Maybe if he gets some practice playing with himself he'll stop being such a jerk-off around you.
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On March 11 2013 08:15 KissBlade wrote:http://www.newsoflegends.com/index.php/the-big-four-5352/Anyone else hate tier lists or pseudo tier discussions like this? I find it one of the biggest reasons why picks stagnate as articles similar to this just procreates more of the "well X article said these are the best picks so I have to do it".
i don't think anyone good has any interest in articles like those and bad players rarely innovate anyway so no, I don't think it has anything to do with "stagnation".
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If Sona was ever jack of all trades, master of none, it was before my time, and if it was during my time they weren't maxing Q.
Nami Q
a 1.5 second stun on a skillshot that has bad missle speed, sounds like a poor mans Dazzle unless the support and AD stand on top of each other like idiots
Nami W
this is the definition of jack of all trades, because they tied her harass to her heal, both are less than the best, unlike other heal centric supports (taric/Sona/Raka) her heal does not come with armor, and the damage on the harass portion is significantly less than other harass supports.
Nami E & R
These are Nami's unique and interesting skills, I know this post started out like I was taking a giant dump on Nami but the sooner people realize how good these skills are and how to utilize them they will have the opinions that have been expressed on the last 2 pages.
I talked about this in the stratagy forum but I'll try to make my argument quickly, the goal of a Nami player should be to stop putting points into W after 2 if the lane permits, the nice thing about Nami is if your retard alert is going off about your solo que AD, unlike Leona, you can just keep maxing heal, but trust me, if your ad is good, you can all in and zone very close to Leona level with her, and you get a good teamfight initiation to boot.
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On March 11 2013 08:32 UniversalSnip wrote:i don't think anyone good has any interest in articles like those and bad players rarely innovate anyway so no, I don't think it has anything to do with "stagnation".
also citing counter pick websites that are based on votes is even worse than lolking winrates.
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On March 11 2013 07:50 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 07:41 Amarok wrote:
So I've decided to pretty much play support non-stop in ranked. I've found having bad players in other positions, while problematic isn't as big a deal as having a "bad" support. I put bad in quotes because I don't think most support players in silver realize what they're doing wrong. I just find there's very rarely vision where we need it (Dragon, Baron, approaches to points of the map that need contesting) and no attempt to gain vision control of the map after it's been lost. A support who doesn't do these things doesn't give their team room to make any plays.
I've pretty much played (and love) Sona exclusively when supporting because I love having an influence on teamfights, but I'd like another "go to" support for when she gets picked or the bot lane doesn't suit her. I don't like Taric, Nunu, Raka (low teamfight contributors) or Leona (very difficult to co-ordinate bot lane). I'm almost ready for another 6k champ and was planning on picking up Nami because I love the look of her kit but I hear underpowered murmurings. Zyra and Lulu were my other options. Champ difficulty isn't a factor, I'm fine mechanically and I'm happy to spend some time learning the ins and outs of a particular option.
Thoughts? 1 word:Thresh. Unless they are A LOT stronger than you in the 2v2 and you can't get the souls at some point you'll almost outtrade the ad 1v1.It is kind of dangerous to play him because you will lose a lot of brain cells when people don't just click the fucking lantern. Nami is not good unless you are duoing or something imo.Sona/lulu/zyra all have one thing in common:you can do everything yourself.With nami unless the enemy is really bad you shouldn't be able to.
How the hell did I forget about that guy?!?! Damn that's another one I have to consider. Blitz is actually my favorite support but he pretty much never gets through the bans, and Thresh brings a lot of what Blitz brings.
On March 11 2013 08:15 KissBlade wrote:http://www.newsoflegends.com/index.php/the-big-four-5352/Anyone else hate tier lists or pseudo tier discussions like this? I find it one of the biggest reasons why picks stagnate as articles similar to this just procreates more of the "well X article said these are the best picks so I have to do it".
Ugh. Hate that article. Much of the "why" analysis is ok but the conclusion is ban them, play them or lose. There is no other way! Lines like "how often does a teammate rage when one of those four champions is selected on the enemy team and yours has a jungler not on that list?" are particularly ironic given it's stat picking articles like these that contribute to the community's close mindedness.
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On March 11 2013 07:41 Amarok wrote:
So I've decided to pretty much play support non-stop in ranked. I've found having bad players in other positions, while problematic isn't as big a deal as having a "bad" support. I put bad in quotes because I don't think most support players in silver realize what they're doing wrong. I just find there's very rarely vision where we need it (Dragon, Baron, approaches to points of the map that need contesting) and no attempt to gain vision control of the map after it's been lost. A support who doesn't do these things doesn't give their team room to make any plays.
I've pretty much played (and love) Sona exclusively when supporting because I love having an influence on teamfights, but I'd like another "go to" support for when she gets picked or the bot lane doesn't suit her. I don't like Taric, Nunu, Raka (low teamfight contributors) or Leona (very difficult to co-ordinate bot lane). I'm almost ready for another 6k champ and was planning on picking up Nami because I love the look of her kit but I hear underpowered murmurings. Zyra and Lulu were my other options. Champ difficulty isn't a factor, I'm fine mechanically and I'm happy to spend some time learning the ins and outs of a particular option.
Thoughts?
Lulu or Thresh. I expect Thresh to be nerfed but his kit is so stupid even if it didn't hit hard he'd still be pretty good just because of his abilities. His kit is strong and fun to play with.
Lulu is also pretty fun if you enjoy being the poke king. Downside is I can never quite get used to how her ult works. I always feel as if I pop'd it too late or too soon. *shrug*
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You should ignore these kinds of "let's look at last couple months FoTM and extrapolate reasons why they are better than the rest"
volibear, rammus,amumu, maybe even nasus or something all could be up there. Personally I think VI is overrated because of a strong early game and so is jarvan but at least he provides great utility. Hecarim is that in reverse he is stronger later and xin is kind in the middle where he has a good early but needs to be farmed to be good now especially since the nerf.
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What do you guys think of Diana jungle? Been playing her in normals clear time is on par with everyone else and ganks are great with a CC and double flash
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United States23745 Posts
On March 11 2013 08:51 MooMooMugi wrote:
What do you guys think of Diana jungle? Been playing her in normals clear time is on par with everyone else and ganks are great with a CC and double flash
It's pretty good. It reminds me of Shen Jungle though, where he's better served in lane where you can get more farm, but it's doable with Jungle farm.
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I don't think J4 jungle is overrated but Vi kinda is, might also very likely be that I'm just not that good with her.
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France45622 Posts
Wrt DnG's departure:
We won’t be “Dirtnap Gaming’s team” any more, but we’d still like to be Dirtnap Gaming’s team.
Isn't it a bit awkward saying this, unless I got it wrong and Velocity isn't an already existing organisation?
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EPT
