[Patch 3.02: Fake Quinn] General Discussion - Page 20

On February 15 2013 07:54 Requizen wrote:
Zephyr gives more MS, more AS, and CDR for your escapes.

On February 15 2013 08:00 TheYango wrote:
It's disingenuous to say "Triforce has wasted stats when BotRK doesn't" when from a stats perspective, BotRK doesn't even break even and Triforce is worth 1200 more gold than it costs, without considering the passives. Even if you use neither Sheen stat, Triforce is better than cost-efficient.

Triforce can afford to have wasted stats, BotRK can't.


How does that matter when we're comparing Triforce+Zephyr vs. BotRK+Zephyr, and both builds have Zephyr?

On February 15 2013 08:08 Phunkapotamus wrote:
Active ability range is so low as to not be considered useful in 90% of an adc's life. I wouldn't even consider it as part of cost justification for any argument about the item for an adc.

On February 15 2013 08:11 TheYango wrote:
I wasn't including the passives in the raw stats comparison for "break-even" for either item. The point is to illustrate that BotRK HAS to use everything to be effective, whereas Triforce is an item deliberately designed to not need everything to be useful to be effective, so saying that not everything on Triforce is useful is pretty much a given.

On February 15 2013 08:13 RagequitBM wrote:
I would assume the active is more for self-peel. Especially with a zephyr.

I'm also a little bit confused with what Yango is saying. Are you saying that the standard order we're doing now is stronger? Or just on those late game focused champions. You always seem to be correct when you theorycraft.

On February 15 2013 08:21 Arekan wrote:
The only champion that I can think of that might fall under these conditions is maybe Shen. Otherwise, it doesn't really seem all that likely that botrk would be all that useful.

On February 15 2013 08:23 RagequitBM wrote:
Oh wow. That's really interesting. I'll need to keep that in mind when I play. I learn so much from this sub forum, it's great.

On February 15 2013 07:54 TheYango wrote:

Ok, so now you're narrowing BotRK users to:
1) champions that aren't heavily based on AD-scaling ability damage (BT more effective here)
2) champions not looking for effectiveness at the 3+ item timing (IE/PD/BT/LW/etc. better here)
3) champions not looking for effectiveness at the single item timing (Triforce better here)
4) champions that don't efficiently use the Triforce proc

Who exactly meets these criteria? I can't see that list being very long, even if it isn't a blank list.

On February 15 2013 08:28 Two_DoWn wrote:
Instead I am simply looking for an effective 1-2 item timing that puts you at a power curve more similar to bruisers.

On February 15 2013 08:28 Two_DoWn wrote:
Tri might work for that, its just the question would be how to use that 1.3k proc. BOTRK is easier to deal with since anyone who hits things can make use of that proc, without a change in playstyle. ATM I am just trying to think through how to utilize that proc on an AD carry.

On February 15 2013 08:48 TheYango wrote:

Point 1 IS relevant because AD casters prefer BT to BotRK even at the 1 damage item timing. Your damage has to heavily favor autoattacks over spells to warrant BotRK.


Again, I feel you are vastly understating how many ADs actually use the Triforce proc well. Off the top of my head, the only ones that might prefer BotRK to BT or Triforce for the particular item timing in question are Tristana and Twitch.