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Wouldn't botrk work well on Kogmaw as well?
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United States47024 Posts
On February 15 2013 08:56 koreasilver wrote:
Wouldn't botrk work well on Kogmaw as well?
Kog'maw is actually an insanely good Triforce user, it's just that nobody plays Kog'maw to the 1-2 item timing because of his godlike lategame (else Malady/Wits would have seen more play S2), so it's rarely practical.
On February 15 2013 08:54 Two_DoWn wrote:
My thought on the last point is just that from a basic theory using an ability as an ADC is typically bad. Cait's peacemaker or headshot are horrible to use in teamfights because they dont do as much damage as just hitting people.
That's only true once your Attack Speed reaches the point where Peacemaker's channel time loses a significant number of autoattacks, which is not the case at the item timing in question with a BotRK or BT first build.
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United States19573 Posts
On February 15 2013 08:28 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 07:54 TheYango wrote:On February 15 2013 07:50 Two_DoWn wrote:
Problem with Triforce is what to do with the sheen proc. I could see Ez and Corki liking that route, but i dont want to spend 1.3k on a proc Im not using if the goal of my build is efficiency. Ok, so now you're narrowing BotRK users to: 1) champions that aren't heavily based on AD-scaling ability damage (BT more effective here) 2) champions not looking for effectiveness at the 3+ item timing (IE/PD/BT/LW/etc. better here) 3) champions not looking for effectiveness at the single item timing (Triforce better here) 4) champions that don't efficiently use the Triforce proc Who exactly meets these criteria? I can't see that list being very long, even if it isn't a blank list. My argument would be that points 1 and 2 dont matter. The point here isnt to effectively scale into AD abilities or a 3 item timing. Instead I am simply looking for an effective 1-2 item timing that puts you at a power curve more similar to bruisers. Tri might work for that, its just the question would be how to use that 1.3k proc. BOTRK is easier to deal with since anyone who hits things can make use of that proc, without a change in playstyle. ATM I am just trying to think through how to utilize that proc on an AD carry.
But that is not how a bruiser's powercurve works. You still can't kill them at a dragonfight because they have higher base stats, probably more levels, and 1/2 defensive items are better than your 1/2 offensive items.
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On February 15 2013 08:59 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 08:28 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 15 2013 07:54 TheYango wrote:On February 15 2013 07:50 Two_DoWn wrote:
Problem with Triforce is what to do with the sheen proc. I could see Ez and Corki liking that route, but i dont want to spend 1.3k on a proc Im not using if the goal of my build is efficiency. Ok, so now you're narrowing BotRK users to: 1) champions that aren't heavily based on AD-scaling ability damage (BT more effective here) 2) champions not looking for effectiveness at the 3+ item timing (IE/PD/BT/LW/etc. better here) 3) champions not looking for effectiveness at the single item timing (Triforce better here) 4) champions that don't efficiently use the Triforce proc Who exactly meets these criteria? I can't see that list being very long, even if it isn't a blank list. My argument would be that points 1 and 2 dont matter. The point here isnt to effectively scale into AD abilities or a 3 item timing. Instead I am simply looking for an effective 1-2 item timing that puts you at a power curve more similar to bruisers. Tri might work for that, its just the question would be how to use that 1.3k proc. BOTRK is easier to deal with since anyone who hits things can make use of that proc, without a change in playstyle. ATM I am just trying to think through how to utilize that proc on an AD carry. But that is not how a bruiser's powercurve works. You still can't kill them at a dragonfight because they have higher base stats, probably more levels, and 1/2 defensive items are better than your 1/2 offensive items.
The goal of this discussion is to find the 1/2 offensive items that DO outscale the 1/2 defensive ones.
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On February 15 2013 08:28 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 07:54 TheYango wrote:On February 15 2013 07:50 Two_DoWn wrote:
Problem with Triforce is what to do with the sheen proc. I could see Ez and Corki liking that route, but i dont want to spend 1.3k on a proc Im not using if the goal of my build is efficiency. Ok, so now you're narrowing BotRK users to: 1) champions that aren't heavily based on AD-scaling ability damage (BT more effective here) 2) champions not looking for effectiveness at the 3+ item timing (IE/PD/BT/LW/etc. better here) 3) champions not looking for effectiveness at the single item timing (Triforce better here) 4) champions that don't efficiently use the Triforce proc Who exactly meets these criteria? I can't see that list being very long, even if it isn't a blank list. My argument would be that points 1 and 2 dont matter. The point here isnt to effectively scale into AD abilities or a 3 item timing. Instead I am simply looking for an effective 1-2 item timing that puts you at a power curve more similar to bruisers. Tri might work for that, its just the question would be how to use that 1.3k proc. BOTRK is easier to deal with since anyone who hits things can make use of that proc, without a change in playstyle. ATM I am just trying to think through how to utilize that proc on an AD carry.
I think your assessment from before in that Cutlass + random Dorans can be analogous to S2 Wriggles + random Dorans is correct. I'm not pro enough to make the claim definitively, but the math, Koreans, and some top NA gamers seem to be testing the theory out well enough.
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On February 15 2013 09:04 Phunkapotamus wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 08:28 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 15 2013 07:54 TheYango wrote:On February 15 2013 07:50 Two_DoWn wrote:
Problem with Triforce is what to do with the sheen proc. I could see Ez and Corki liking that route, but i dont want to spend 1.3k on a proc Im not using if the goal of my build is efficiency. Ok, so now you're narrowing BotRK users to: 1) champions that aren't heavily based on AD-scaling ability damage (BT more effective here) 2) champions not looking for effectiveness at the 3+ item timing (IE/PD/BT/LW/etc. better here) 3) champions not looking for effectiveness at the single item timing (Triforce better here) 4) champions that don't efficiently use the Triforce proc Who exactly meets these criteria? I can't see that list being very long, even if it isn't a blank list. My argument would be that points 1 and 2 dont matter. The point here isnt to effectively scale into AD abilities or a 3 item timing. Instead I am simply looking for an effective 1-2 item timing that puts you at a power curve more similar to bruisers. Tri might work for that, its just the question would be how to use that 1.3k proc. BOTRK is easier to deal with since anyone who hits things can make use of that proc, without a change in playstyle. ATM I am just trying to think through how to utilize that proc on an AD carry. I think your assessment from before in that Cutlass + random Dorans can be analogous to S2 Wriggles + random Dorans is correct. I'm not pro enough to make the claim definitively, but the math, Koreans, and some top NA gamers seem to be testing the theory out well enough.
I think the general theory would be that the BOTRK would scale with Lifesteal/AS/Resistances. You use the proc from BOTRK, stack health and aspeed and use that to just straight outlive everything with your lifesteal.
But I dunno. I just come up with stupid ideas, I dont test them.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 15 2013 09:07 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 09:04 Phunkapotamus wrote:On February 15 2013 08:28 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 15 2013 07:54 TheYango wrote:On February 15 2013 07:50 Two_DoWn wrote:
Problem with Triforce is what to do with the sheen proc. I could see Ez and Corki liking that route, but i dont want to spend 1.3k on a proc Im not using if the goal of my build is efficiency. Ok, so now you're narrowing BotRK users to: 1) champions that aren't heavily based on AD-scaling ability damage (BT more effective here) 2) champions not looking for effectiveness at the 3+ item timing (IE/PD/BT/LW/etc. better here) 3) champions not looking for effectiveness at the single item timing (Triforce better here) 4) champions that don't efficiently use the Triforce proc Who exactly meets these criteria? I can't see that list being very long, even if it isn't a blank list. My argument would be that points 1 and 2 dont matter. The point here isnt to effectively scale into AD abilities or a 3 item timing. Instead I am simply looking for an effective 1-2 item timing that puts you at a power curve more similar to bruisers. Tri might work for that, its just the question would be how to use that 1.3k proc. BOTRK is easier to deal with since anyone who hits things can make use of that proc, without a change in playstyle. ATM I am just trying to think through how to utilize that proc on an AD carry. I think your assessment from before in that Cutlass + random Dorans can be analogous to S2 Wriggles + random Dorans is correct. I'm not pro enough to make the claim definitively, but the math, Koreans, and some top NA gamers seem to be testing the theory out well enough. I think the general theory would be that the BOTRK would scale with Lifesteal/AS/Resistances. You use the proc from BOTRK, stack health and aspeed and use that to just straight outlive everything with your lifesteal. But I dunno. I just come up with stupid ideas, I dont test them.
That's what TROLLS is for.
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On February 15 2013 08:48 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 08:28 Two_DoWn wrote:
Instead I am simply looking for an effective 1-2 item timing that puts you at a power curve more similar to bruisers. Point 1 IS relevant because AD casters prefer BT to BotRK even at the 1 damage item timing. Your damage has to heavily favor autoattacks over spells to warrant BotRK. Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 08:28 Two_DoWn wrote:
Tri might work for that, its just the question would be how to use that 1.3k proc. BOTRK is easier to deal with since anyone who hits things can make use of that proc, without a change in playstyle. ATM I am just trying to think through how to utilize that proc on an AD carry. Again, I feel you are vastly understating how many ADs actually use the Triforce proc well. Off the top of my head, the only ones that might prefer BotRK to BT or Triforce for the particular item timing in question are Tristana and Twitch.
Yes but Triforce is not going to stop a 4000 health bruiser from crushing your face while you struggle do any menaingful damage to him. BotK is gives you a chance for your team to help you with the peel from the active, then gives you % damage to supplement your crit damage. Its probably not very good in any other situation. You can also just sit on cutlass midgame and upgrade whenever you need to, cutlass is still pretty good.
I feel like that is the main case right now that AD carries have problems, and that with enough att speed BotK is an effective counter.
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On February 15 2013 09:09 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 09:07 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 15 2013 09:04 Phunkapotamus wrote:On February 15 2013 08:28 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 15 2013 07:54 TheYango wrote:On February 15 2013 07:50 Two_DoWn wrote:
Problem with Triforce is what to do with the sheen proc. I could see Ez and Corki liking that route, but i dont want to spend 1.3k on a proc Im not using if the goal of my build is efficiency. Ok, so now you're narrowing BotRK users to: 1) champions that aren't heavily based on AD-scaling ability damage (BT more effective here) 2) champions not looking for effectiveness at the 3+ item timing (IE/PD/BT/LW/etc. better here) 3) champions not looking for effectiveness at the single item timing (Triforce better here) 4) champions that don't efficiently use the Triforce proc Who exactly meets these criteria? I can't see that list being very long, even if it isn't a blank list. My argument would be that points 1 and 2 dont matter. The point here isnt to effectively scale into AD abilities or a 3 item timing. Instead I am simply looking for an effective 1-2 item timing that puts you at a power curve more similar to bruisers. Tri might work for that, its just the question would be how to use that 1.3k proc. BOTRK is easier to deal with since anyone who hits things can make use of that proc, without a change in playstyle. ATM I am just trying to think through how to utilize that proc on an AD carry. I think your assessment from before in that Cutlass + random Dorans can be analogous to S2 Wriggles + random Dorans is correct. I'm not pro enough to make the claim definitively, but the math, Koreans, and some top NA gamers seem to be testing the theory out well enough. I think the general theory would be that the BOTRK would scale with Lifesteal/AS/Resistances. You use the proc from BOTRK, stack health and aspeed and use that to just straight outlive everything with your lifesteal. But I dunno. I just come up with stupid ideas, I dont test them. That's what TROLLS is for.
I got demoted and am now on strike.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 15 2013 09:09 Purge wrote:
Yes but Triforce is not going to stop a 4000 health bruiser from crushing your face while you struggle do any menaingful damage to him. BotK is gives you a chance for your team to help you with the peel from the active, then gives you % damage to supplement your crit damage. Its probably not very good in any other situation. You can also just sit on cutlass midgame and upgrade whenever you need to, cutlass is still pretty good.
I feel like that is the main case right now that AD carries have problems, and that with enough att speed BotK is an effective counter.
BotRK is good against blind Warmog's but everyone suddenly realized that Locket is bullshit.
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On February 15 2013 09:07 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 09:04 Phunkapotamus wrote:On February 15 2013 08:28 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 15 2013 07:54 TheYango wrote:On February 15 2013 07:50 Two_DoWn wrote:
Problem with Triforce is what to do with the sheen proc. I could see Ez and Corki liking that route, but i dont want to spend 1.3k on a proc Im not using if the goal of my build is efficiency. Ok, so now you're narrowing BotRK users to: 1) champions that aren't heavily based on AD-scaling ability damage (BT more effective here) 2) champions not looking for effectiveness at the 3+ item timing (IE/PD/BT/LW/etc. better here) 3) champions not looking for effectiveness at the single item timing (Triforce better here) 4) champions that don't efficiently use the Triforce proc Who exactly meets these criteria? I can't see that list being very long, even if it isn't a blank list. My argument would be that points 1 and 2 dont matter. The point here isnt to effectively scale into AD abilities or a 3 item timing. Instead I am simply looking for an effective 1-2 item timing that puts you at a power curve more similar to bruisers. Tri might work for that, its just the question would be how to use that 1.3k proc. BOTRK is easier to deal with since anyone who hits things can make use of that proc, without a change in playstyle. ATM I am just trying to think through how to utilize that proc on an AD carry. I think your assessment from before in that Cutlass + random Dorans can be analogous to S2 Wriggles + random Dorans is correct. I'm not pro enough to make the claim definitively, but the math, Koreans, and some top NA gamers seem to be testing the theory out well enough. I think the general theory would be that the BOTRK would scale with Lifesteal/AS/Resistances. You use the proc from BOTRK, stack health and aspeed and use that to just straight outlive everything with your lifesteal. But I dunno. I just come up with stupid ideas, I dont test them.
I don't think BotRK is the point. The math shows that it's close enough to other lategame items. It's mid-game that we find issues with adc's. BotRK's components certainly seem to offer better midgame stats than the components of IE/BT. Cutlass being the badass here. Also, there's nothing saying you can't just sit on Cutlass like sitting on the old Wriggles and selling it later. IMO, the option to upgrade to BotRK is just a bonus in case people go warmogs.
If we are talking late game BotRK, it's important to note that your initial hits carry more weight than the later ones. For teamfights, your non-crit pokes become much more powerful and soften people up much more than pokes from IE/BT.
From my noob games, BotrK/Warmogs/PD is hilarious.
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On February 15 2013 09:09 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 09:07 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 15 2013 09:04 Phunkapotamus wrote:On February 15 2013 08:28 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 15 2013 07:54 TheYango wrote:On February 15 2013 07:50 Two_DoWn wrote:
Problem with Triforce is what to do with the sheen proc. I could see Ez and Corki liking that route, but i dont want to spend 1.3k on a proc Im not using if the goal of my build is efficiency. Ok, so now you're narrowing BotRK users to: 1) champions that aren't heavily based on AD-scaling ability damage (BT more effective here) 2) champions not looking for effectiveness at the 3+ item timing (IE/PD/BT/LW/etc. better here) 3) champions not looking for effectiveness at the single item timing (Triforce better here) 4) champions that don't efficiently use the Triforce proc Who exactly meets these criteria? I can't see that list being very long, even if it isn't a blank list. My argument would be that points 1 and 2 dont matter. The point here isnt to effectively scale into AD abilities or a 3 item timing. Instead I am simply looking for an effective 1-2 item timing that puts you at a power curve more similar to bruisers. Tri might work for that, its just the question would be how to use that 1.3k proc. BOTRK is easier to deal with since anyone who hits things can make use of that proc, without a change in playstyle. ATM I am just trying to think through how to utilize that proc on an AD carry. I think your assessment from before in that Cutlass + random Dorans can be analogous to S2 Wriggles + random Dorans is correct. I'm not pro enough to make the claim definitively, but the math, Koreans, and some top NA gamers seem to be testing the theory out well enough. I think the general theory would be that the BOTRK would scale with Lifesteal/AS/Resistances. You use the proc from BOTRK, stack health and aspeed and use that to just straight outlive everything with your lifesteal. But I dunno. I just come up with stupid ideas, I dont test them. That's what TROLLS is for.
Even T.R.O.L.L.S. has standards.
On February 15 2013 09:09 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 09:09 TheYango wrote:On February 15 2013 09:07 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 15 2013 09:04 Phunkapotamus wrote:On February 15 2013 08:28 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 15 2013 07:54 TheYango wrote:On February 15 2013 07:50 Two_DoWn wrote:
Problem with Triforce is what to do with the sheen proc. I could see Ez and Corki liking that route, but i dont want to spend 1.3k on a proc Im not using if the goal of my build is efficiency. Ok, so now you're narrowing BotRK users to: 1) champions that aren't heavily based on AD-scaling ability damage (BT more effective here) 2) champions not looking for effectiveness at the 3+ item timing (IE/PD/BT/LW/etc. better here) 3) champions not looking for effectiveness at the single item timing (Triforce better here) 4) champions that don't efficiently use the Triforce proc Who exactly meets these criteria? I can't see that list being very long, even if it isn't a blank list. My argument would be that points 1 and 2 dont matter. The point here isnt to effectively scale into AD abilities or a 3 item timing. Instead I am simply looking for an effective 1-2 item timing that puts you at a power curve more similar to bruisers. Tri might work for that, its just the question would be how to use that 1.3k proc. BOTRK is easier to deal with since anyone who hits things can make use of that proc, without a change in playstyle. ATM I am just trying to think through how to utilize that proc on an AD carry. I think your assessment from before in that Cutlass + random Dorans can be analogous to S2 Wriggles + random Dorans is correct. I'm not pro enough to make the claim definitively, but the math, Koreans, and some top NA gamers seem to be testing the theory out well enough. I think the general theory would be that the BOTRK would scale with Lifesteal/AS/Resistances. You use the proc from BOTRK, stack health and aspeed and use that to just straight outlive everything with your lifesteal. But I dunno. I just come up with stupid ideas, I dont test them. That's what TROLLS is for. I got demoted and am now on strike.
I feel like I'm Edgeworth and you're Detective Gumshoe. You've failed so thoroughly and consistently on so many levels that I've run out of means to punish you any further for your incompetence.
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On February 15 2013 09:14 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 09:09 TheYango wrote:On February 15 2013 09:07 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 15 2013 09:04 Phunkapotamus wrote:On February 15 2013 08:28 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 15 2013 07:54 TheYango wrote:On February 15 2013 07:50 Two_DoWn wrote:
Problem with Triforce is what to do with the sheen proc. I could see Ez and Corki liking that route, but i dont want to spend 1.3k on a proc Im not using if the goal of my build is efficiency. Ok, so now you're narrowing BotRK users to: 1) champions that aren't heavily based on AD-scaling ability damage (BT more effective here) 2) champions not looking for effectiveness at the 3+ item timing (IE/PD/BT/LW/etc. better here) 3) champions not looking for effectiveness at the single item timing (Triforce better here) 4) champions that don't efficiently use the Triforce proc Who exactly meets these criteria? I can't see that list being very long, even if it isn't a blank list. My argument would be that points 1 and 2 dont matter. The point here isnt to effectively scale into AD abilities or a 3 item timing. Instead I am simply looking for an effective 1-2 item timing that puts you at a power curve more similar to bruisers. Tri might work for that, its just the question would be how to use that 1.3k proc. BOTRK is easier to deal with since anyone who hits things can make use of that proc, without a change in playstyle. ATM I am just trying to think through how to utilize that proc on an AD carry. I think your assessment from before in that Cutlass + random Dorans can be analogous to S2 Wriggles + random Dorans is correct. I'm not pro enough to make the claim definitively, but the math, Koreans, and some top NA gamers seem to be testing the theory out well enough. I think the general theory would be that the BOTRK would scale with Lifesteal/AS/Resistances. You use the proc from BOTRK, stack health and aspeed and use that to just straight outlive everything with your lifesteal. But I dunno. I just come up with stupid ideas, I dont test them. That's what TROLLS is for. Even T.R.O.L.L.S. has standards. Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 09:09 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 15 2013 09:09 TheYango wrote:On February 15 2013 09:07 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 15 2013 09:04 Phunkapotamus wrote:On February 15 2013 08:28 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 15 2013 07:54 TheYango wrote:On February 15 2013 07:50 Two_DoWn wrote:
Problem with Triforce is what to do with the sheen proc. I could see Ez and Corki liking that route, but i dont want to spend 1.3k on a proc Im not using if the goal of my build is efficiency. Ok, so now you're narrowing BotRK users to: 1) champions that aren't heavily based on AD-scaling ability damage (BT more effective here) 2) champions not looking for effectiveness at the 3+ item timing (IE/PD/BT/LW/etc. better here) 3) champions not looking for effectiveness at the single item timing (Triforce better here) 4) champions that don't efficiently use the Triforce proc Who exactly meets these criteria? I can't see that list being very long, even if it isn't a blank list. My argument would be that points 1 and 2 dont matter. The point here isnt to effectively scale into AD abilities or a 3 item timing. Instead I am simply looking for an effective 1-2 item timing that puts you at a power curve more similar to bruisers. Tri might work for that, its just the question would be how to use that 1.3k proc. BOTRK is easier to deal with since anyone who hits things can make use of that proc, without a change in playstyle. ATM I am just trying to think through how to utilize that proc on an AD carry. I think your assessment from before in that Cutlass + random Dorans can be analogous to S2 Wriggles + random Dorans is correct. I'm not pro enough to make the claim definitively, but the math, Koreans, and some top NA gamers seem to be testing the theory out well enough. I think the general theory would be that the BOTRK would scale with Lifesteal/AS/Resistances. You use the proc from BOTRK, stack health and aspeed and use that to just straight outlive everything with your lifesteal. But I dunno. I just come up with stupid ideas, I dont test them. That's what TROLLS is for. I got demoted and am now on strike. I feel like I'm Edgeworth and you're Detective Gumshoe. You've failed so thoroughly and consistently on so many levels that I've run out of means to punish you any further for your incompetence.
I take pride in not even knowing that reference.
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On February 15 2013 09:02 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 08:59 cLutZ wrote:On February 15 2013 08:28 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 15 2013 07:54 TheYango wrote:On February 15 2013 07:50 Two_DoWn wrote:
Problem with Triforce is what to do with the sheen proc. I could see Ez and Corki liking that route, but i dont want to spend 1.3k on a proc Im not using if the goal of my build is efficiency. Ok, so now you're narrowing BotRK users to: 1) champions that aren't heavily based on AD-scaling ability damage (BT more effective here) 2) champions not looking for effectiveness at the 3+ item timing (IE/PD/BT/LW/etc. better here) 3) champions not looking for effectiveness at the single item timing (Triforce better here) 4) champions that don't efficiently use the Triforce proc Who exactly meets these criteria? I can't see that list being very long, even if it isn't a blank list. My argument would be that points 1 and 2 dont matter. The point here isnt to effectively scale into AD abilities or a 3 item timing. Instead I am simply looking for an effective 1-2 item timing that puts you at a power curve more similar to bruisers. Tri might work for that, its just the question would be how to use that 1.3k proc. BOTRK is easier to deal with since anyone who hits things can make use of that proc, without a change in playstyle. ATM I am just trying to think through how to utilize that proc on an AD carry. But that is not how a bruiser's powercurve works. You still can't kill them at a dragonfight because they have higher base stats, probably more levels, and 1/2 defensive items are better than your 1/2 offensive items. The goal of this discussion is to find the 1/2 offensive items that DO outscale the 1/2 defensive ones.
I'd rather they didn't exist. Ali's ult can grant 70% damage reduction for 7 seconds. The offensive counterpart would be +233% damage for 7 seconds. While Sven in LoL 1v5ing baron and the enemy team would be really cool, I can't ignore his damage. I can totally ignore Alistar.
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United States19573 Posts
On February 15 2013 09:02 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 08:59 cLutZ wrote:On February 15 2013 08:28 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 15 2013 07:54 TheYango wrote:On February 15 2013 07:50 Two_DoWn wrote:
Problem with Triforce is what to do with the sheen proc. I could see Ez and Corki liking that route, but i dont want to spend 1.3k on a proc Im not using if the goal of my build is efficiency. Ok, so now you're narrowing BotRK users to: 1) champions that aren't heavily based on AD-scaling ability damage (BT more effective here) 2) champions not looking for effectiveness at the 3+ item timing (IE/PD/BT/LW/etc. better here) 3) champions not looking for effectiveness at the single item timing (Triforce better here) 4) champions that don't efficiently use the Triforce proc Who exactly meets these criteria? I can't see that list being very long, even if it isn't a blank list. My argument would be that points 1 and 2 dont matter. The point here isnt to effectively scale into AD abilities or a 3 item timing. Instead I am simply looking for an effective 1-2 item timing that puts you at a power curve more similar to bruisers. Tri might work for that, its just the question would be how to use that 1.3k proc. BOTRK is easier to deal with since anyone who hits things can make use of that proc, without a change in playstyle. ATM I am just trying to think through how to utilize that proc on an AD carry. But that is not how a bruiser's powercurve works. You still can't kill them at a dragonfight because they have higher base stats, probably more levels, and 1/2 defensive items are better than your 1/2 offensive items. The goal of this discussion is to find the 1/2 offensive items that DO outscale the 1/2 defensive ones.
They dont exist by design.
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I'm having like brain explosions right now. What about a bortk thresh adc? Go for a mid game timing of bortk thirster build tanky until another pair of thirsters late game.
1) champions that aren't heavily based on AD-scaling ability damage (BT more effective here)
2) champions not looking for effectiveness at the 3+ item timing (IE/PD/BT/LW/etc. better here)
3) champions not looking for effectiveness at the single item timing (Triforce better here)
4) champions that don't efficiently use the Triforce proc
He follows all the rules that yango laid out and can peel just find for himself and initiate fights. It might just be his release opness and the tilt my brain is on after being in a game with triple assassins but I think this might just be something for trolls on Friday to work out. I'll put my thoughts out in word form more and post it there but basicaly thresh adc for bortk?
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On February 15 2013 09:14 Seuss wrote:
I feel like I'm Edgeworth and you're Detective Gumshoe. You've failed so thoroughly and consistently on so many levels that I've run out of means to punish you any further for your incompetence.
This is by far the most awesome reference used in the subforum that I can remember. If something was greater, then it was before the release of vayne.
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quick question: when riot says a sale runs from February 12 to February 15, does that mean it ends at the beginning Feb 15th or the end? I'm looking to grab blood moon akali, and want to know if I have another day to grind out the IP for the champ.
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On February 15 2013 09:21 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 09:02 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 15 2013 08:59 cLutZ wrote:On February 15 2013 08:28 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 15 2013 07:54 TheYango wrote:On February 15 2013 07:50 Two_DoWn wrote:
Problem with Triforce is what to do with the sheen proc. I could see Ez and Corki liking that route, but i dont want to spend 1.3k on a proc Im not using if the goal of my build is efficiency. Ok, so now you're narrowing BotRK users to: 1) champions that aren't heavily based on AD-scaling ability damage (BT more effective here) 2) champions not looking for effectiveness at the 3+ item timing (IE/PD/BT/LW/etc. better here) 3) champions not looking for effectiveness at the single item timing (Triforce better here) 4) champions that don't efficiently use the Triforce proc Who exactly meets these criteria? I can't see that list being very long, even if it isn't a blank list. My argument would be that points 1 and 2 dont matter. The point here isnt to effectively scale into AD abilities or a 3 item timing. Instead I am simply looking for an effective 1-2 item timing that puts you at a power curve more similar to bruisers. Tri might work for that, its just the question would be how to use that 1.3k proc. BOTRK is easier to deal with since anyone who hits things can make use of that proc, without a change in playstyle. ATM I am just trying to think through how to utilize that proc on an AD carry. But that is not how a bruiser's powercurve works. You still can't kill them at a dragonfight because they have higher base stats, probably more levels, and 1/2 defensive items are better than your 1/2 offensive items. The goal of this discussion is to find the 1/2 offensive items that DO outscale the 1/2 defensive ones. They dont exist by design.
you can buy 1 offensive item and 1 defensive item and out scale 2 defensive items.
an even balance of offense and defense is the best for 1v1s if you want to do the calculations yourself feel free but EHP and DPS should meet in the middle somewhere Ranged ads tend towards DPS because of protection factors and melee tend toward EHP because it's easier to focus them (but have superior base dps and ehp)
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EPT
