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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
On February 03 2013 19:31 TheYango wrote: Totally unrelated, can we please stop using the term "shot caller" and just use the term "captain"? does it matter much either way :o | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On February 03 2013 19:33 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: does it matter much either way :o no. | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
"I stand as your captain." | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
-how fast a person is at recognizing their mistakes, learning from it, and implementing the solution -the degree to which their play is hindered by minor mistakes that can be fixed | ||
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-Exalt-
United States972 Posts
On February 03 2013 18:56 TheYango wrote: My quip is with wei2coolman's statement that "Strong mechanics is actually best indicator of potential imo. You can teach strategy, much harder to teach mechanics." My personal feeling is the opposite is the case. If you spend 10,000 hours training your mechanics, your mechanics will get there. You can't do the same for someone's understanding of the game. I think this whole argument is pretty wrong on both sides. It doesn't matter if you're a pro player, or a solo queue hero with potential.. you still need a definitive grasp on not just mechanics, but also game knowledge (how much dmg things do, enemy cooldowns, etc), and awareness (where the jungler is, where you are in team fights). Take out any of those 3, and you have a mediocre player. | ||
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Schwopzi
Netherlands954 Posts
On February 03 2013 19:33 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: does it matter much either way :o Team captain sounds way too much like teamleader, and the leader doesn't -have- to call the shots in game. It can just be the dude with the best leadership qualities that knows how to motivate & steer teammembers between and during games. The shotcaller should be the guy with the best gamesense. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On February 03 2013 20:47 -Exalt- wrote: I think this whole argument is pretty wrong on both sides. It doesn't matter if you're a pro player, or a solo queue hero with potential.. you still need a definitive grasp on not just mechanics, but also game knowledge (how much dmg things do, enemy cooldowns, etc), and awareness (where the jungler is, where you are in team fights). Take out any of those 3, and you have a mediocre player. The argument isn't which is needed. Both is obviously needed, the question was what do teams scout for in terms of new talent in the scene. I said, they scout for solid mechanics, cuz easier to teach strat part. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On February 03 2013 13:54 Dusty wrote: IMO the reason Oddone's Xin is so bad compared to, say, Maokai, is because he tried to build support on carry junglers. I'm not the best player but locket rush xin doesn't seem like the greatest build to me. Locket rush is good I ranted at risu for like 20 minutes in lp explaining why yesterday not going to say it again On February 03 2013 14:09 zulu_nation8 wrote: xin is much better as a support jungler than a carry jungler, and is basically a support jungler what the fuck does that even mean I get locket every game on xin and sometimes I don't get much farm and xp and do fine and sometimes I get more xp and gold than the rest of the team and buy infinity edge what the fuck are you talking about. On February 03 2013 17:05 419 wrote: % of health / % of percent of missing health doesn't particularly favor health-stacking over resist-stacking. Else, arguably you would have seen Maokais commonly building Warmogs in season 2. Though one may be more cost-efficient than the other, that calculation is not substantially altered by a % health heal. Karma renek bot is OKAY but much better is renek top and karma mid because karma and renekton are both really farm and level dependent On February 03 2013 19:00 Scip wrote: And my quip is with this statement: that just seems completely untrue, counterintuitive and unfounded. ANYTHING can be learned and anything that can be learned can be taught and potential isn't some genetic bullshit it's just based on a players mindset drive and willingness to improve and people like saint who don't care about their smiting skills and last hitting never practice it which is why they continue to suck at it. You said "Koreans didn't pick up players for being good at strategy they picked them up for being good at mechanics" This is misinterpreted I think first off, an AWFUL lot of mechanics in broodwar was rooted in understanding of the snowball effects of micro and macro as in getting 2 extra drones early can be like a 10 drone advantage later leading into an even bigger advantage and a 2 ling advantage in a 10 ling vs 8 ling might net you an ending with 6-8 lings left. Even though speed was a requirement to do these things speed is just a result of the mind telling the hand to do something fast which means you must mentally be very quick and decisive. Clever strategies can only really be developed once you have a good level of mechanics because otherwise it might end up being a shitty strategy against someone else with good mechanics. secondly, the story about july zerg being recruited when he was 1400 gamei player wasn't because he had amazing mechanics, it was because he was like 30 games a day on ladder or something ridiculous consistently. If you have a proper mindset and a good coach with that kind of drive you're going to get very good and thats what the coach saw. The only reason you focus on mechanics first is because it's the building blocks. in starcraft. Julyzerg is actually a really smart guy with a really deep understanding of economy and timing and he pulled off some crazy shit even in sc2 which looked like the same julyzerg which is super aggressive but nobody else made it work like that. In league you can call things like vayne tumble mechanics but it doesn't matter what you call it. You don't just play 500 vayne games and then you can tumble around and 1v2 like doublelift does. He's not holding a god gifted vayne card that makes him good. He just played a lot of vayne and kept replaying situations through his head because he dies a lot and probably has this feeling that if he played perfectly he wouldn't die so he keeps thinking of the perfect combination of Q's and E's and autos and tries to pull them off more and more unpredictably while not putting yourself in danger. Skillshots, again, also called mechanics, MOST people are accurate enoguh with their mouse to land where they want but still miss. Thats because skillshots is a total mindgame and you have to try to get into the other guys head and doublelift has been practicing that ever since he started playing blitz because of the extremely high reward for landing Q which is why he's so good with skillshots now. Basically people using the word "mechanics" is basically what fps players call "skill" i guess and we might as well call them "mechanicsshots" for the way you guys are using the word. | ||
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Fwmeh
1286 Posts
On February 03 2013 19:22 Amui wrote: Well if you take a look at BW. A lot of the korean pro's were picked up not because they were good players, but because they had godly mechanics despite being "bad" at the game. You can teach somebody strategy, and program a response in for a certain situation. You can't teach somebody to move the mouse and click precisely every .2 seconds while also keeping track cooldowns and positioning. Unless you're the shot caller on the team, being mechanically proficient will get you to a very high level, and so long as you listen to the shot caller, you'll be able to mask strategic weakness later in the game. Do you really believe this? That that is some inherent property to some individuals, lacking in other? This is contrary to everything I have learned in life so far. I argue that everything which can be learned, can also be taught. And I also believe that there are very very few things which you cannot systematically learn/practice. It might be that no good way to practice have been thought up, or that the good ways to practice are very boring and/or tedious, and thus very few people are prepared to do it. If a "pro player" has bad "mechanics" it is mostly likely because he, consciously or subconsciously, does not practice them, even though he might play a lot. You can of course play a lot without getting better, but if you approach it with the correct mind set, you will. It works that way in every other discipline I have some deeper knowledge of, and I cannot see why league would be different. OMG ninjaed | ||
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jtype
England2167 Posts
If you want to learn the basic principles of strategy and apply them to a game, you could study game theory/read The Art Of War, but the way YOU apply the things you read/are taught totally dictates how difficult it is for YOU to learn them. Mechanics clearly aren't a skillset that only comes from massing games, although of course that can happen. As with learning a musical instrument, practice doesn't make perfect; practice makes consistent. What you practice is what you will do. So, if you are playing hundreds of games and making the same mechanical/strategic mistakes all the time, you will continue to do so in the next hundred. You have to identify and isolate skills that you need to improve/acquire and work on them with a clear goal in mind. Want to last hit every creep? Then focus on last-hitting every creep. Don't play 50 games thinking only about how to kill/trade with your lane opponent and expect to get better at last-hitting (although, one can obviously benefit the other). Basically - I agree with what Slayer91 (edit: and Fwmeh) just said, but wanted to offer my 2 cents (pence). | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Capped
United Kingdom7236 Posts
Edit: Doesnt matter now, bought olaf instead, brotime + top / jungle + i wanted him for a long time :3 | ||
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Dusty
United States3359 Posts
On February 03 2013 22:01 Capped wrote: Xin viable top laner? He suffers from lack of escape, but I think he's really strong. Sustain, 3 forms of CC, %health damage? Oh yes. Side note: if I wanted to make a guide and make a thread, do I need to meet any sort of criteria? | ||
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cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
Viable. Good early no escape. | ||
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ReignSupreme.
Australia4123 Posts
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