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Mondeezy
United States1938 Posts
For example, one player starts his promo series from plat to diamond. He duos with his bronze division buddy so that their average elo is much lower than the diamond player's ELO, hence lesser skilled opponents. Just something I was thinking of today that seems pretty dumb and easily exploitable at higher levels. | ||
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Dusty
United States3359 Posts
On February 03 2013 18:24 Mondeezy wrote: So, couldn't you potentially win your promotion series easily by duo queuing with a player much lower than your ELO? For example, one player starts his promo series from plat to diamond. He duos with his bronze division buddy so that their average elo is much lower than the diamond player's ELO, hence lesser skilled opponents. Just something I was thinking of today that seems pretty dumb and easily exploitable at higher levels. that's smart, ill have to try that some time | ||
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 03 2013 18:22 wei2coolman wrote: Best example is Doublelift imo. Was picked up by HSGG, due to sheer impressive solo queue play with Blitz, Poppy, etc. Then after a few team swaps, doublelift finally got good after Chauster babied Doublelift. Strong mechanics is actually best indicator of potential imo. You can teach strategy, much harder to teach mechanics. None of what makes Doublelift good at skirmishing and teamfighting is mechanics. It's all game knowledge--knowing how much damage the enemy does, knowing how much damage you do, knowing spell damages, movement speeds, etc. It can be learned and it's misleading to call it mechanics. | ||
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
On February 03 2013 18:30 TheYango wrote: None of what makes Doublelift good at skirmishing and teamfighting is mechanics. It's all game knowledge--knowing how much damage the enemy does, knowing how much damage you do, knowing spell damages, movement speeds, etc. It can be learned and it's misleading to call it mechanics. I would say that (since it's subconscious) it's fair to call it mechanics. | ||
onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On February 03 2013 18:29 HazMat wrote: How is Voyboy so good at every hero and role he plays? :X I've been watching him a lot since he switched to Twitch and I'm always impressed with how he handles almost all match-ups/situations. Kid just has rock solid mechanics and a good game sense. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On February 03 2013 18:30 TheYango wrote: None of what makes Doublelift good at skirmishing and teamfighting is mechanics. It's all game knowledge--knowing how much damage the enemy does, knowing how much damage you do, knowing spell damages, movement speeds, etc. It can be learned and it's misleading to call it mechanics. It's not THAT misleading, because it's all based on muscle memory and possibly instinct, very much like mechanics in sc2. Yes, it is a bit of a misnomer, but not that much. | ||
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ItsFunToLose
United States776 Posts
On February 03 2013 18:31 OutlaW- wrote: I would say that (since it's subconscious) it's fair to call it mechanics. I learned to speak chinese while sleeping. Consciousness overrated imo. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On February 03 2013 18:30 TheYango wrote: None of what makes Doublelift good at skirmishing and teamfighting is mechanics. It's all game knowledge--knowing how much damage the enemy does, knowing how much damage you do, knowing spell damages, movement speeds, etc. It can be learned and it's misleading to call it mechanics. That's mostly subconscious/muscle memory, and something you learn through experience. That's not something that can be taught by someone. Also, voyboy's stream is a lot better recently. He's actually commentating, and he's solo queuing instead of duoing. | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On February 03 2013 18:33 Scip wrote: It's not THAT misleading, because it's all based on muscle memory and possibly instinct, very much like mechanics in sc2. Yes, it is a bit of a misnomer, but not that much. I'd agree with this. Past a certain point it's all muscle memory. When you're doing 4+ things a second there is no longer time for you to think things through(I know because at one point I had 240 apm in sc2). Kiting is mechanical, the moment a lux bind hits you, instant cleanse flash. I would argue that gamesense/knowledge let's you position well, and make smart decisions, but it's mechanics that allow you to execute it. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On February 03 2013 18:37 HazMat wrote: I just remember watching the game when Hotshot started fapping over Doublelift's Blitz play and asked him to duo. That was because of his hooks and shit, which I would consider mechanics :o Doublelift was pretty shit, pre-modern CLG. He was shitty on curse, and he was shitty when switched back to CLG (until after spending so much time with Chauster). | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 03 2013 18:34 wei2coolman wrote: That's mostly subconscious/muscle memory, and something you learn through experience. That's not something that can be taught by someone. Also, voyboy's stream is a lot better recently. He's actually commentating, and he's solo queuing instead of duoing. Strategy isn't something you just teach either though. At the most basic level, maybe you can teach basic paradigms, but at the pro level, that's simply not good enough. It also comes out of experience and building upon your understanding of the game. You can't just show someone X and Y and suddenly they learn strategy. I'd say it's actually much rarer to find someone who approaches the game with the right mindset for thinking about the big picture and has a good sense for map movement, objective value, timing, etc. than it is to find someone who has good small-scale execution. | ||
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
On February 03 2013 18:44 TheYango wrote: Strategy isn't something you just teach either though. At the most basic level, maybe you can teach basic paradigms, but at the pro level, that's simply not good enough. It also comes out of experience and building upon your understanding of the game. You can't just show someone X and Y and suddenly they learn strategy. I'd say it's actually much rarer to find someone who approaches the game with the right mindset for thinking about the big picture and has a good sense for map movement, objective value, timing, etc. than it is to find someone who has good small-scale execution. All you're saying is that it's harder to find good junglers and supports than it is AD carries, because those are the roles that benefit the most from the things that you named. Different roles need different skills honed. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
It's a lot easier to tell doublelift to head to blue, than it is to tell him how to last hit. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 03 2013 18:49 wei2coolman wrote: It may be rarer, but that doesn't mean you can improve said weakness. It's a lot easier to tell doublelift to head to blue, than it is to tell him how to last hit. But it doesn't tell him why he's heading to blue, or how to learn that thought process. You lasthit for 100 games, you're going to be able to lasthit. You try to "practice" strategy for 100 games, you could go absolutely nowhere. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
I don't know how you came to the conclusion that you can't teach strategy and the right way of thinking to someone. It doesn't seem at all self-evident nor intuitive, or at least not in the way you make it look. You could say you can't teach someone to play the piano, because the muscle memory and the feel for it comes from playing itself and experience, but such a statement would be absurd to the highest digree. And playing LoL doesn't seem all that different, unless you could maybe point out some important facts I am missing? ^^^^ just because the mechanisms by which muscle memory and thinking improve are different, in NO WAY does it mean or indeed even imply that the latter is impossible, or practically unfeasable. | ||
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MooMooMugi
United States10531 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
My personal feeling is the opposite is the case. If you spend 10,000 hours training your mechanics, your mechanics will get there. You can't do the same for someone's understanding of the game. | ||
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