EPT[Patch 1.0.0.154: Preseason Balance Update 2] GD - Page 64
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/16xz31/after_hours_gaming_league_ahgl_season_3_week_2/ | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Not rly I don't have a reddit acc. But if I had one, I'd totes do it, ah promise. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On January 21 2013 03:55 TheYango wrote: Items always have the greatest impact on the game the moment you get it. A stronger immediate item timing in exchange for a weaker long-run growth is still very likely to be a stronger overall item in the hands of a team that can exploit such timings. It's actually in pub games where the stacking one is stronger because a solo queue team isn't likely to abuse your individual item timing well, and you're better off just being stronger in the long run. You could also say that in pub games that people fight more and farm less leading to people fighting with an uncharged warmogs earlier. Or that since there are more fights that warmogs would have gotten charged faster. But that's all just conjecture. In my opinion there's a lot of people looking in hindsight as to why we didn't stack Warmogs before and they're always looking at the changes because they refuse to believe that they could have been wrong before. We've all seen this image before: ![[image loading]](http://i41.tinypic.com/20tgw8k.jpg) But back when the image was released everyone would have either ignored the chart or argued that armor helps more because you have natural health regen and lifesteal or you needed to counter penetration. Now you'll abandon that argument because warmogs is more popular. League of Legends seems to be horrible at predicting changes to the meta, the same way bankers seem to be horrible at predicting recessions. It's really easy to list reasons why something changed because no one can prove that you're wrong. It's really hard to be the first to convince others that something is right in the first place. + Show Spoiler + Let's say we had an instance where two Wukong's faced each other in lane. Wukong A faces Wukong B. Wukong A has a full farmed BT Wukong B has a Warmogs 2 points Q, 1 point decoy, 5 points E, 1 point ult. At level 9, Wukong A has 1200 life. Wukong A's full combo damage is: 380+6.7*100=1050 Wukong A's dps is 160 Wukong B has 2200 life. Wukong B's full combo damage is: 380 Wukong B's dps is 80 They both have 62 armor Wukong A would do (1050-380)/1.62=648-234=414 damage more on his massive 6.7 AD ratio in burst. How many more seconds would it take for Wukong A to catch up given the 1000 health lead Wukong B has? Well the difference between the two dps after taking into account base armor is 50, so it'd take (1000-414)/50=11.7 seconds for Wukong A to break even. That's the kind of calculation that would explain why Warmogs is so strong. But even this is missing confounding variables such as that BT is fully stacked, and that this is about Wukong, someone with HUGE AoE AD ratios, instead of Olaf or Katarina. I guarantee that if nothing changed and the meta were about stacking armor instead of health, then that RoG article would be talking about how you now need armor to combat the armor pen that assassins are getting. TLDR Listing things is not an effective way of explaining shifts to the meta. More often than not the meta shifts towards things that are wrong but are done anyways because if everyone does something that is wrong, then everyone still has a 50% chance of winning. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
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Craton
United States17303 Posts
You also have to factor in what item choices you even have to get stats. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 21 2013 04:35 Numy wrote: I think League players are just too used to their game being solo Q individual for the win style. That's exactly how we do it in Dota. One guy has the primary voice when he says something we follow through. If it's the wrong call it's the wrong call and we make adjustments next time. If he's not able to make the call someone involved makes it and you follow that guy. It actually can vary a lot from team to team, depending on the team's playstyles and personalities of the team. iG has a very decentralized way of managing things (you have a lot of back and forth), while LGD has a much more centralized way of making team decisions, centered around Xiao8's command. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
It also doesn't assume the cost. Stacking HP is better because it's cheaper (or better for the cost) and come with a load of items compared to armour/MR. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Item "balance" isn't as far out as everyone believes it to be. The items that don't get bought commonly aren't total shit. They're just slightly more situational. So when you have a couple of the most common items nerfed, one of the less common ones will become more popular because the difference really isn't all that vast. So really people are over-rationalizing the popularity of Warmog's. The other items got slightly worse, and because Warmog's is slightly better, people jumped on it and it exploded out of control because this community bandwagons the shit out of things. The biggest benefactors from this patch as far as primary defensive items go are Warmog's, Sunfire, and Locket. Warmog's is a bit overblown, and Locket isn't bought enough. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On January 21 2013 05:17 Alaric wrote: And it assumes you don't have any particular benefits from one or the other. If HP and resistances were universally as good as the other, Udyr, Irelia, Warwick would rather have resistances, Wukong would rather have HP. It also doesn't assume the cost. Stacking HP is better because it's cheaper (or better for the cost) and come with a load of items compared to armour/MR. Cost is factored. The meta is shifting towards everyone building warmogs. Even if every defensive item in the game other than warmogs got nerfed it would not explain warmogs eve, zyra, kat, or nid. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On January 21 2013 05:09 TheYango wrote: It actually can vary a lot from team to team, depending on the team's playstyles and personalities of the team. iG has a very decentralized way of managing things (you have a lot of back and forth), while LGD has a much more centralized way of making team decisions, centered around Xiao8's command. The we was more my team  . iG is a bit unique though you don't really get many teams of that caliber in the world. Navi is similar in that it's not always Puppey doing the decision making but at the end of the day if he makes a call they follow that call. Also how Light/Puppey manage the draft/strats. To my knowledge Faith also has final say on how they draft?On January 21 2013 05:29 TheYango wrote: The biggest benefactors from this patch as far as primary defensive items go are Warmog's, Sunfire, and Locket. Warmog's is a bit overblown, and Locket isn't bought enough. Diamond got locket as his first major item on Xin in all the games I think so it might become more popular | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On January 21 2013 05:41 obesechicken13 wrote: Cost is factored. The meta is shifting towards everyone building warmogs. Even if every defensive item in the game other than warmogs got nerfed it would not explain warmogs eve, zyra, kat, or nid. Has it been updated for s3 cost then? I know it was done in s2 but no idea how up to date it is. | ||
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JALbert
United States484 Posts
On January 21 2013 01:35 GeorgeForeman wrote: This is a completely random question, but I had no idea where else to put it. (Not really worthy of its own thread....) What is the Chinese pronunciation of "Xin Xhao"? I hear a lot of casters pronounce if "phonetically" from a Western perspective. This ends up as something like "zin zow". This seems wrong to me. I'd have thought it was more like "shin joe", pronouncing the "xh" the same way you pronounce a "zh". Frankly, this not only sounds cooler, it sounds more Chinese. But I'm no expert in pronouncing Chinese. So I was hoping someone here was and could set me straight. Also, in the Chinese version of the game, is dude's name "Xin Xhao" or "Xhao Xin"? edit: Clearly the last name is spelled with the "zh". I just had that wrong in my head. It actually makes the pronunciation a lot clearer, tbh. It's Zhao Xin in the Chinese client. As a non-native speaker, I'd say Xin is something like Sheen with a shorter vowel sound. Zhao would be something like a j sound instead of the h in 'how'. Sort of hard to describe in text for me. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22700 Posts
The golden rule of LoL pronouciation is that it is whatever Phreak says in the champion spotlight :p | ||
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R11
Canada213 Posts
I just watched the VOD and the comp actually has quite a bit of synergy now that I start thinking about it, all the carries benefit from the AS/MS buffs while having a fair share of disengages. Is this just a troll comp? Or is there actually some legitimate thought process behind it? | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On January 21 2013 06:21 R11 wrote: Saw TPA run the composition of Caitlyn top, Nunu jungle, Taric support, Sivir ad, and Kayle mid against MLE in GPL. At first glance, I thought they were just trolling against a lesser team and went to sleep. I just watched the VOD and the comp actually has quite a bit of synergy now that I start thinking about it, all the carries benefit from the AS/MS buffs while having a fair share of disengages. Is this just a troll comp? Or is there actually some legitimate thought process behind it? My bet is on 50:50 | ||
AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On January 21 2013 06:18 Gorsameth wrote: The golden rule of LoL pronouciation is that it is whatever Phreak says in the champion spotlight :p I still disagree heavily that Shaco should be anything but "Shay-co." | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On January 21 2013 04:35 VayneAuthority wrote: Not sure how M5 does it, but we know for sure that koreans designate one person as shot caller and talk about things after the match. Then you listen in on NA vents and its a bunch of people shouting jibberish together. There are NA teams that have one shot caller. Dignitas with Jatt was that way. Back when they streamed scrims and used their VOIP TSM was like that with Reginald (except for games when Regi would be a dick and they'd argue about dumb shit but that was back in like early 2011). CLG with SV was like that too. I don't speak Korean but I know for a fact that everyone on a team talks and "shouts jibberish" because everyone on a team has valuable input. They just have one set designated guy that they all listen to. But it's not like this is an alien concept to NA teams. They've been doing it since before any of the Korean teams existed lol. Unless you speak Russian, Korean, Chinese, English, and whatever languages some of the other EU teams use I think it's kind of hard to make blanket statements about how shot calling goes. While I'm sure it's something that some NA teams could improve on I don't think it's something that they really need to be bashed for (minus the obvious fact that CLG often spends too much time arguing mid-scrim instead of being adults). | ||
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