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[Patch 1.0.0.154: Preseason Balance Update 2] GD - Page 45

Forum Index > LoL General
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jcc
Profile Joined January 2011
United States472 Posts
January 18 2013 18:37 GMT
#881
Range is the primary thing I feel, they both have good scaling atkspeed too, so it adds up. Also kog just has so much raw damage potential. But Cait it's for her range for sure. It's also excellent for vayne to allow her to micro well, kite, and apply W.
http://broukej.cz/lol-signatures/GGod_na_103_4_logo.png
fishinguy
Profile Joined November 2010
Russian Federation798 Posts
January 18 2013 18:37 GMT
#882
On January 19 2013 03:23 kainzero wrote:
i think vlad counters elise easily.


Elise has some ridiculous early all ins, it can be really tricky to survive until vlad can get to the infinite sustain position.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
January 18 2013 18:37 GMT
#883
On January 19 2013 03:35 Roffles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2013 02:51 TheYango wrote:
On January 19 2013 02:50 spellsy wrote:
ok what do you guys think of this: http://i.imgur.com/HLl0k.jpg any last needed changes or something ?

The guide totally ignores MF when she's arguably the strongest AD of this version.

Hello? Is that you Lee Sin?

I think he's talking about the "current common duo lanes" part, which features stuff like Ezreal-Sona but no MF-x. He shouldn't have said "totally" but his point is still fair I think.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
January 18 2013 18:39 GMT
#884
On January 19 2013 03:37 Alaric wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2013 03:35 Roffles wrote:
On January 19 2013 02:51 TheYango wrote:
On January 19 2013 02:50 spellsy wrote:
ok what do you guys think of this: http://i.imgur.com/HLl0k.jpg any last needed changes or something ?

The guide totally ignores MF when she's arguably the strongest AD of this version.

Hello? Is that you Lee Sin?

I think he's talking about the "current common duo lanes" part, which features stuff like Ezreal-Sona but no MF-x. He shouldn't have said "totally" but his point is still fair I think.

Yeah this is what I meant. Sorry for not being clear.
Moderator
spellsy
Profile Joined October 2011
United States418 Posts
January 18 2013 18:47 GMT
#885
i mena mf might be seen as the strongest but shes by far not picked more than someone like ez or even picked more than cait or graves, also, there isnt some classic mf lane (other than mf taric, which is a bit outdated), its just "mf + x"when mf+x is already covered in the ad section of the guide.


however, do you guys think the image is too big ? i was looking at the old imaeg: http://i.imgur.com/boqQE.jpg and i think its a bit silly how you can see almost all the picks on 1 line while for this it is like doubled in size
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-18 18:53:54
January 18 2013 18:50 GMT
#886
On January 19 2013 03:35 Roffles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2013 02:51 TheYango wrote:
On January 19 2013 02:50 spellsy wrote:
ok what do you guys think of this: http://i.imgur.com/HLl0k.jpg any last needed changes or something ?

The guide totally ignores MF when she's arguably the strongest AD of this version.

Hello? Is that you Lee Sin?

I think he's referring to the common lane setup section.

EDIT: Also, thank you for updating this Spellsy, I use it all the time. =]
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-18 19:06:51
January 18 2013 19:06 GMT
#887
On January 19 2013 03:28 Alaric wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2013 03:03 Seuss wrote:
On January 18 2013 22:42 Alaric wrote:
On January 18 2013 16:56 Seuss wrote:
Just played a bunch of Jungle Vi games.

I've settled on Machete -> Tabi -> Stinger -> Phage -> Mallet -> Whatever. With Q maxed first only champions like Kassadin and Katarina have a prayer of escaping the slows, and doing 6-10%+ maximum health in physical damage to a target whose armor you automatically shred is nuts. You can easily go to golems instead of back to wolves before Red with or without a leash.

She feels really good after all those bug fixes and quality of life changes. Highly recommend trying her out.

No MR?
I tend to go machete->boots+phage->wit's + mercs (double NMM if they have magic damage), then generally belt into randuin's or mallet.

I dislike BC on her (too much gold dumped into damage) and hexdrinker (too slot-inefficient later on, especially for somebody who won't upgrade machete) so I tend to try and complete wit's before mercs. I end up a bit slow at some window but I don't know how much my inability to hit a Q plays into that.
Locket's combination of HP+CDR+the active is definitely nice on her but if I go something like locket+phage I'll be pretty low on armor and randuin's kinda awkward build path (need 1100 or you sit on a cloth armor) makes me dislike my early midgame with that. Maybe just build locket+phage+tabis and then work on MR.


The funny thing about Armor/MR is that early on Health is equivalent or better. Let me demonstrate with math.

At level 11 Vi with Phage has 1575 Health and 43.75 MR. The 20-40 MR from Wit's End adds 315-630 effective Health (Equation: (1+MR/100)*Health). The 500 Health from a Giant's Belt adds 718.75 effective Health. So for 50g more the Phage + Stinger + Giant's Belt build actually has better survivability against magic damage than the Phage + Wit's End build, even if you assume you'll always have Wit's End stacked.

So I don't feel particularly weak early without MR, and by aiming for Tabi over Merc's I don't have any sustain issues in the jungle (double damage reductions OP). You get to the "Whatever" part of my build fast enough to start choosing items based on what the largest threats are looking to be. Stinger can eventually be upgraded to Zephyr when/if Tenacity or Movement Speed becomes important, but there's no rush.

If you're worried about the team, you could always delay Mallet and invest toward Locket/Aegis instead. I just really like the stronger, guaranteed permaslow.

Hm... didn't think about it enough I guess. And since her passive gives her a shield based on %maxHP its EHP scales equally from HP and MR, is it it (iirc that what I've been told regarding Maokai's passive's effect on his itemization)?
I simply liked wit's a lot because of the AS (I like Vi as a brawler, "I'll wear you down in the end" style so I favor tankiness and AS over AD/ArPen) but had trouble fitting both it and Phage (she really needs something to stick until her Q gets down to a lower cd) and mercs then getting to bigger items.
+ Show Spoiler +
The initial 2-3k gold from the jungle are easy to obtain but past that some lanes start winning more and roaming, requiring more wards and presence from the jungler, so I can't perma farm as well and if I have to help the lanes being roamed to it impacts my ability to cover/tax too. It's a recurrent motif in my jungling but I wonder if it doesn't have more to do with my style/lack of skill rather than natural game flow.

I didn't think of stinger/zephyr as a wait to get cheap AS and later tenacity, but since Vi likes AS as much (if not better) than AD, and CDR a lot it makes a lot of sense. I'm gonna try that.

I often feel a bit weak in longer fights without lifesteal too (or even against poke, since her passive requires her to hit something to proc). Wriggles' way to slot-inefficient though (and not cost-efficient enough), though, and BT is out of the question. BotrK seems good on her (scales best with AS and ArPen, Vi itemizes AS and gets AS and Armour Reduction from W, and the active gives her another way to stick) but you'd get it pretty late. Zeke gives lifesteal and CDR on top of being a team item, but it's pretty weak damage-wise early on for its cost, and the lifesteal is weak too (only 10%). Hydra could be a very good item on her (if I get it right her E would proc it, so auto->E->hydra active would give her a load of AoE) but it's pretty expensive and tiamat has no lifesteal either.
Any ideas, or do you just do without it (mallet+randuin's if a fuckton of health to go through before they wear you down anyway).


I just ignore Life Steal. Between Tabi and her passive, jungle sustain is simply not an issue. If I was super ridiculously fed I'd probably aim for Hydra because it's so good (Health Regeneration be damned), but under normal circumstances there just isn't a place for it to fit into the build.

On January 19 2013 03:47 spellsy wrote:
i mena mf might be seen as the strongest but shes by far not picked more than someone like ez or even picked more than cait or graves, also, there isnt some classic mf lane (other than mf taric, which is a bit outdated), its just "mf + x"when mf+x is already covered in the ad section of the guide.


however, do you guys think the image is too big ? i was looking at the old imaeg: http://i.imgur.com/boqQE.jpg and i think its a bit silly how you can see almost all the picks on 1 line while for this it is like doubled in size


The new image is way more readable. The smaller, compact format of the first image might be more efficient for someone who is used to it, but for educating the masses the new image is far superior.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
kyarisan
Profile Joined May 2010
United States347 Posts
January 18 2013 19:09 GMT
#888
On January 19 2013 03:47 spellsy wrote:
i mena mf might be seen as the strongest but shes by far not picked more than someone like ez or even picked more than cait or graves, also, there isnt some classic mf lane (other than mf taric, which is a bit outdated), its just "mf + x"when mf+x is already covered in the ad section of the guide.


however, do you guys think the image is too big ? i was looking at the old imaeg: http://i.imgur.com/boqQE.jpg and i think its a bit silly how you can see almost all the picks on 1 line while for this it is like doubled in size


You might wanna try just putting the 3 sections side-by-side instead of top-to-bottom, seeing as most monitors are wider than they are tall and it would have to zoom out much less to see the whole thing

love the guide <3
Roffles *
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Pitcairn19291 Posts
January 18 2013 19:12 GMT
#889
I dislike how you have the "How to read" and "Using the Guide" sections up top and they all tell you to refer to the supports section as well. However, it's such a pain in the ass to scroll down from the ADs up top down to the supports below. I liked the previous layout and it was just easier to read without having to scroll too much, really useful for if you don't have much time to spend looking this stuff up in queue.
God Bless
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-18 19:31:27
January 18 2013 19:12 GMT
#890
But you can scroll top-to-bottom, sideways is harder. I guess that was the idea.

Btw Seuss, which masteries on Vi? Been trying 9-21-0, but 9-12-9 prob works too for buff duration. I don't see the point in 21-9 or 21-0-9 since I aim at soaking damage.
(I'm currently testing switching from starting gold to awareness with the 0-9-21 masteries for utility junglers like Amumu and Naut.)
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
January 18 2013 19:35 GMT
#891
I went 21/9/0 actually for maximum beatdowns/clear speed, but I wasn't really concerned with optimal runes/masteries at the time. 9/21/0 is probably better.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
discator
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany639 Posts
January 18 2013 19:55 GMT
#892
On January 19 2013 03:47 spellsy wrote:
i mena mf might be seen as the strongest but shes by far not picked more than someone like ez or even picked more than cait or graves, also, there isnt some classic mf lane (other than mf taric, which is a bit outdated), its just "mf + x"when mf+x is already covered in the ad section of the guide.


however, do you guys think the image is too big ? i was looking at the old imaeg: http://i.imgur.com/boqQE.jpg and i think its a bit silly how you can see almost all the picks on 1 line while for this it is like doubled in size



bad against urgot- soraka
good against urgot - soraka

??^^
;;
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
January 18 2013 19:56 GMT
#893
On January 19 2013 04:55 discator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2013 03:47 spellsy wrote:
i mena mf might be seen as the strongest but shes by far not picked more than someone like ez or even picked more than cait or graves, also, there isnt some classic mf lane (other than mf taric, which is a bit outdated), its just "mf + x"when mf+x is already covered in the ad section of the guide.


however, do you guys think the image is too big ? i was looking at the old imaeg: http://i.imgur.com/boqQE.jpg and i think its a bit silly how you can see almost all the picks on 1 line while for this it is like doubled in size



bad against urgot- soraka
good against urgot - soraka

??^^


Good with
Bad against
Lylat
Profile Joined August 2009
France8575 Posts
January 18 2013 20:04 GMT
#894
On January 19 2013 04:56 Numy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2013 04:55 discator wrote:
On January 19 2013 03:47 spellsy wrote:
i mena mf might be seen as the strongest but shes by far not picked more than someone like ez or even picked more than cait or graves, also, there isnt some classic mf lane (other than mf taric, which is a bit outdated), its just "mf + x"when mf+x is already covered in the ad section of the guide.


however, do you guys think the image is too big ? i was looking at the old imaeg: http://i.imgur.com/boqQE.jpg and i think its a bit silly how you can see almost all the picks on 1 line while for this it is like doubled in size



bad against urgot- soraka
good against urgot - soraka

??^^


Good with
Bad against

Just read^^ it's good with and good against
discator
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany639 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-18 20:10:52
January 18 2013 20:08 GMT
#895
Aaah sorry^^

I am so dumb lol
;;
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
January 18 2013 20:10 GMT
#896
i learned today to always have your team ward the buff youre not starting at vs shaco
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
January 18 2013 20:12 GMT
#897
On January 19 2013 03:47 spellsy wrote:
i mena mf might be seen as the strongest but shes by far not picked more than someone like ez or even picked more than cait or graves, also, there isnt some classic mf lane (other than mf taric, which is a bit outdated), its just "mf + x"when mf+x is already covered in the ad section of the guide.


however, do you guys think the image is too big ? i was looking at the old imaeg: http://i.imgur.com/boqQE.jpg and i think its a bit silly how you can see almost all the picks on 1 line while for this it is like doubled in size


i have that page bookmarked for solo queue, its helpful for the most part but there are some ADs like twitch who are not listed and also some picks that i dont understand.
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
January 18 2013 20:16 GMT
#898
On January 19 2013 05:12 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2013 03:47 spellsy wrote:
i mena mf might be seen as the strongest but shes by far not picked more than someone like ez or even picked more than cait or graves, also, there isnt some classic mf lane (other than mf taric, which is a bit outdated), its just "mf + x"when mf+x is already covered in the ad section of the guide.


however, do you guys think the image is too big ? i was looking at the old imaeg: http://i.imgur.com/boqQE.jpg and i think its a bit silly how you can see almost all the picks on 1 line while for this it is like doubled in size


i have that page bookmarked for solo queue, its helpful for the most part but there are some ADs like twitch who are not listed and also some picks that i dont understand.

New one has Twitch in it. He gave reasoning for the choices in a separate document but it's not in the infographic.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
GregMandel
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
France822 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-18 20:40:57
January 18 2013 20:25 GMT
#899
Guys I really need ROBERTOxLEE's playlist, any idea where i can get it ?

edit : found it, Robert pretty nice guy manually linking me to the youtube playlist :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD8QLNiolfk - Racing with the sun
remedium
Profile Joined July 2011
United States939 Posts
January 18 2013 20:35 GMT
#900
On January 19 2013 05:25 GregMandel wrote:
Guys I really need ROBERTOxLEE's playlist, any idea where i can get it ?


30 seconds to mars radio, on pandora
Stay positive!
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