EPTHe said his bane. It's a personal thing.
[Patch 1.0.0.154: Preseason Balance Update 2] GD - Page 44
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AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
He said his bane. It's a personal thing. | ||
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NEOtheONE
United States2233 Posts
On January 19 2013 01:42 Requizen wrote: I have not found a single lane opponent that I've lost to as Elise. Shit's broken yo. I even won lane against Teemo, my bane. Dodge Elise's human form W and E, proceed to destroy her just about sums up how Elise gets shut down. | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
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AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On January 19 2013 02:32 HazMat wrote: Is it my birthday in Corea yet? So it would seem. Happy Birthday. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22492 Posts
On January 19 2013 02:24 NEOtheONE wrote: Dodge Elise's human form W and E, proceed to destroy her just about sums up how Elise gets shut down. How is W and E Elise's strenght? Q lets you harass people and since more top laners are melee they have to come in to fight you and Spider W out trades almost everything. Sure the stun is very nice to land but its hardly core in her lane harass. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On January 19 2013 02:24 NEOtheONE wrote: Dodge Elise's human form W and E, proceed to destroy her just about sums up how Elise gets shut down. I've missed plenty of Ws and Es, though could be that my opponents just don't know how to punish. If I'm going forward to harass with EQ(W), then I'm not sticking around long enough or getting close enough to get punished if I miss. If I'm going in for the kill (which I likely won't unless they're less than half), I'm going to switch into spider and win the trade whether my skillshots hit or not. Unless you're talking about dodging to drain mana and then punishing her when oom, but that never really happens given her rather reasonable to tiny mana costs. | ||
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spellsy
United States418 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 19 2013 02:50 spellsy wrote: ok what do you guys think of this: http://i.imgur.com/HLl0k.jpg any last needed changes or something ? The guide totally ignores MF when she's arguably the strongest AD of this version. | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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Zizoz
United States232 Posts
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spellsy
United States418 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On January 18 2013 22:42 Alaric wrote: No MR? I tend to go machete->boots+phage->wit's + mercs (double NMM if they have magic damage), then generally belt into randuin's or mallet. I dislike BC on her (too much gold dumped into damage) and hexdrinker (too slot-inefficient later on, especially for somebody who won't upgrade machete) so I tend to try and complete wit's before mercs. I end up a bit slow at some window but I don't know how much my inability to hit a Q plays into that. Locket's combination of HP+CDR+the active is definitely nice on her but if I go something like locket+phage I'll be pretty low on armor and randuin's kinda awkward build path (need 1100 or you sit on a cloth armor) makes me dislike my early midgame with that. Maybe just build locket+phage+tabis and then work on MR. The funny thing about Armor/MR is that early on Health is equivalent or better. Let me demonstrate with math. At level 11 Vi with Phage has 1575 Health and 43.75 MR. The 20-40 MR from Wit's End adds 315-630 effective Health (Equation: (1+MR/100)*Health). The 500 Health from a Giant's Belt adds 718.75 effective Health. So for 50g more the Phage + Stinger + Giant's Belt build actually has better survivability against magic damage than the Phage + Wit's End build, even if you assume you'll always have Wit's End stacked. So I don't feel particularly weak early without MR, and by aiming for Tabi over Merc's I don't have any sustain issues in the jungle (double damage reductions OP). You get to the "Whatever" part of my build fast enough to start choosing items based on what the largest threats are looking to be. Stinger can eventually be upgraded to Zephyr when/if Tenacity or Movement Speed becomes important, but there's no rush. If you're worried about the team, you could always delay Mallet and invest toward Locket/Aegis instead. I just really like the stronger, guaranteed permaslow. On January 19 2013 01:05 Bladeorade wrote: Weak Vi builds. Cleaver BT GA LW Nerfs Mogs That looks like a laning build (Nerfs == Mercs?). Spending 6000g before investing significantly in defense is fairly crazy on junglers unless you're fed, going full-on farm mode, or both. I also think grabbing one attack speed item on Vi, especially early, is really good for her jungling. | ||
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
On January 19 2013 02:50 spellsy wrote: ok what do you guys think of this: http://i.imgur.com/HLl0k.jpg any last needed changes or something ? Spellsy, I love all this material you put out. It is so well made, convenient and just generally useful. Your support guide finally made me make 2 fully separate support setups: one for pokey supports, the other for tanky supports (I just had a generally tanky support setup with a smattering of all the major stats). My biggest complaint is that you don't do all the other roles in the game as well. I want this for top lane and jungle too! Great job sir! | ||
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spellsy
United States418 Posts
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Inschato
Canada1349 Posts
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
On January 19 2013 02:50 spellsy wrote: ok what do you guys think of this: http://i.imgur.com/HLl0k.jpg any last needed changes or something ? Great guide! Looks pretty great. Minor nit: in your "how to counter vayne and nunu" section, the sentence "Since they lack sustain, and range - harassing is your best option" should be "Since they lack sustain and range, harassing is your best option". The first version I initially parsed as "[Since [[they lack sustain], [and range-harassing is your best option]], (ERROR: expecting independent clause but end of sentence reached)." (If you want to use a hyphen like a comma, you should use an em-dash instead of a regular hyphen) | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On January 19 2013 03:03 Seuss wrote: The funny thing about Armor/MR is that early on Health is equivalent or better. Let me demonstrate with math. At level 11 Vi with Phage has 1575 Health and 43.75 MR. The 20-40 MR from Wit's End adds 315-630 effective Health (Equation: (1+MR/100)*Health). The 500 Health from a Giant's Belt adds 718.75 effective Health. So for 50g more the Phage + Stinger + Giant's Belt build actually has better survivability against magic damage than the Phage + Wit's End build, even if you assume you'll always have Wit's End stacked. So I don't feel particularly weak early without MR, and by aiming for Tabi over Merc's I don't have any sustain issues in the jungle (double damage reductions OP). You get to the "Whatever" part of my build fast enough to start choosing items based on what the largest threats are looking to be. Stinger can eventually be upgraded to Zephyr when/if Tenacity or Movement Speed becomes important, but there's no rush. If you're worried about the team, you could always delay Mallet and invest toward Locket/Aegis instead. I just really like the stronger, guaranteed permaslow. Hm... didn't think about it enough I guess. And since her passive gives her a shield based on %maxHP its EHP scales equally from HP and MR, is it it (iirc that what I've been told regarding Maokai's passive's effect on his itemization)? I simply liked wit's a lot because of the AS (I like Vi as a brawler, "I'll wear you down in the end" style so I favor tankiness and AS over AD/ArPen) but had trouble fitting both it and Phage (she really needs something to stick until her Q gets down to a lower cd) and mercs then getting to bigger items. + Show Spoiler + The initial 2-3k gold from the jungle are easy to obtain but past that some lanes start winning more and roaming, requiring more wards and presence from the jungler, so I can't perma farm as well and if I have to help the lanes being roamed to it impacts my ability to cover/tax too. It's a recurrent motif in my jungling but I wonder if it doesn't have more to do with my style/lack of skill rather than natural game flow. I didn't think of stinger/zephyr as a wait to get cheap AS and later tenacity, but since Vi likes AS as much (if not better) than AD, and CDR a lot it makes a lot of sense. I'm gonna try that. I often feel a bit weak in longer fights without lifesteal too (or even against poke, since her passive requires her to hit something to proc). Wriggles' way to slot-inefficient though (and not cost-efficient enough), though, and BT is out of the question. BotrK seems good on her (scales best with AS and ArPen, Vi itemizes AS and gets AS and Armour Reduction from W, and the active gives her another way to stick) but you'd get it pretty late. Zeke gives lifesteal and CDR on top of being a team item, but it's pretty weak damage-wise early on for its cost, and the lifesteal is weak too (only 10%). Hydra could be a very good item on her (if I get it right her E would proc it, so auto->E->hydra active would give her a load of AoE) but it's pretty expensive and tiamat has no lifesteal either. Any ideas, or do you just do without it (mallet+randuin's if a fuckton of health to go through before they wear you down anyway). | ||
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Complete
United States1864 Posts
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On January 19 2013 02:51 TheYango wrote: The guide totally ignores MF when she's arguably the strongest AD of this version. Hello? Is that you Lee Sin? | ||
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