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United States15536 Posts
On January 29 2013 01:03 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2013 17:10 Alzadar wrote:On January 28 2013 17:04 Amui wrote:
In all honesty the problem with randuin's is
A. HoG gone. So there's that incentive gone
B. Warden's mail change. Before against certain lanes top(riven, panth for example), you could rush that thing and literally sit in lane all day and farm. Now it's a pretty bad laning item mostly because the hp5 is gone.
C. Funfire gives much the same stats, but lets you push&out trade a lot. It's not that much, but the sunfire damage does add up in trades. Ugh. Few things make me sadder than the fact that the untimely removal of HoG from the game means it will forever remain in the minds of so many as being a good item. I think HOG hate on TL went a bit too far. It was a decent jungler item and it built into Randuins, which was awesome. GP5 is only dumb when you got it for the sake of GP5 (ala Bankplank). As an aside, Bankplank as an idea makes no sense looking back on it. Oh how the meta shifts.`
Are we going to start talking about HoG even though it's not in the game? Old habits die SO hard.
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On January 28 2013 23:26 Dandel Ion wrote:
I just had a Morde mid demand I give him the blue lvl1. I was Amumu.
He really tried hard to take it. I had to smite it. '-.-
then he ragequit.
Some people are just craaaazy morons.
It's obvious.
Morde doesn't use mana so extra mana regen is useless. However, the blue buff also gives substantial CDR - allowing him to cast more spells per minute. However, since every one of his spells costs his own health, his goal of getting blue buff must be that he wants to die more quickly.
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Bankplank was fun though.
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on the topic of gangplank hes really solid in the jungle right now. The addition of that CDR makes spirit of the lizard elder so good on him. Only need that as a damage item and rest tanky = raidboss
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On January 29 2013 01:12 JonnyLaw wrote:
Bankplank was fun though.
But with Ashe and TF, your team will be so rich
I think the new jungle items are just pretty good in general. No reason to buy if you're not jungling, but they really fit the bruiser/tank/ AP roles.
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United States23745 Posts
On January 29 2013 01:14 VayneAuthority wrote:
on the topic of gangplank hes really solid in the jungle right now. The addition of that CDR makes spirit of the lizard elder so good on him. Only need that as a damage item and rest tanky = raidboss
That's cool. I know a lot of people don't like the Spirit Stone upgrades but I always feel weird just sitting on it for most of the game. I guess you can just sell it later but I'd just prefer if it builds into something useful.
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On January 29 2013 00:40 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 00:29 BlueSpace wrote:On January 29 2013 00:04 nafta wrote:On January 28 2013 23:56 BlueSpace wrote:On January 28 2013 23:32 nafta wrote:On January 28 2013 23:28 MattBarry wrote:
If I'm playing a melee against a ranged, Ill get pretty mad if the jungler pushes my lane. It's not even about tax, just don't push it He just has to push it enough.But yeah when junglers fuck your wave it's the worst.Was darius vs kayle yesterday and I got dived.Traded 1 for 1.Then my jungler pushed just one wave so kayle could freeze.Then their jungler just waited in bush so I was useless whole game.Why is it so hard to understand if you will push at least push it to tower.... Yeah... did he push it or did he last hit? Because there is a big difference, if he last hitted, the wave would have pushed most likely anyways and he would have just passed on free gold + XP. Also having an enemy jungler camp a lane is not the worst thing in the world. Just ward your brushes and play defensive. The time he spends sitting around not achieving anything is time for your jungler to get ahead and do stuff on other parts of the map. So if you don't die and he just sits around, you're making a valuable contribution to the team. You are assuming your jungler isn't retarded.I've found that to be too often true even at decent elo.Also when i am level 5 to 7 in lane even if jungler is behind when you are useless whole game as a top laner who cares if he is slightly behind.Also pink wards are pretty good I hear.Kind of prevent you from knowing if he is in the bush  . Having your brush pink warded sucks. But that wasn't really the point. It's more about how defensive laners get about their creeps and yes sometimes junglers are retarded and push lanes, but sometimes junglers just take cs in a lane that is already pushing anyways. Knowing where the enemy jungler is, makes a huge difference. You can be much more reckless when ganking, because you know that you won't get punished by the enemy jungler. It also allows the lanes to much more aggressively commit to your ganks. So it's not about outfarming the enemy jungler. It's about giving momentum to the rest of your team. And yes you will be behind but your jungler should use that to get the rest ahead. Still the level of retardness is universal and junglers are no different, so I can see where you're coming from. You don't seem to understand what I am saying.Their jungler doesn't even need to gank.If you are not a ranged top laner with escapes who can no longer 1v1 because your jungler doesn't understand how the lane pushes you WILL be useless for the remainder of the game no matter what happens.All of this happens because a lot of players don't understand it's better to lose 70 gold then to make your top laner(others as well but it is most problematic there) unable to do anything. You said it yourself that I should ward and I will be safe.What if after he doesn't push correctly your lane other lanes ward and he can't gank?It's not a coincidence wickd always tells jungler to push with him after they gank.....Unless it's more beneficial not to obviously. In the end: There is a bigger picture than 4 cs.
I acknowledged what you said already in several ways, but you seem to refuse to entertain the notion that there might be circumstances where the jungler covering the lane is a good thing. As you bring up wicked, I've seen snoopeh cover lane for top or mid in order to let the cs/XP not go to waste in several pro games. That is what I was talking about, I never contested that blindly pushing the lane is a bad thing for the laner.
Also pushing the lane had nothing to do with ganking. I just tried to say that knowing where the enemy jungler is by having him sit in a brush that is warded, opens up possibilities that can be exploited.
Also the intial case I was describing was entirely different. The enemy had killed my top and pushed the wave to the tower. I went top and cleared the wave which was sitting under tower. He didn't have teleport and no way to get to the creeps. They would have damaged the tower and died to tower shots with the incoming wave pushing out again most likely. So in your opinion the correct course of action is to let the creeps hammer on the tower and just go and farm golems?
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On January 29 2013 01:19 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 00:40 nafta wrote:On January 29 2013 00:29 BlueSpace wrote:On January 29 2013 00:04 nafta wrote:On January 28 2013 23:56 BlueSpace wrote:On January 28 2013 23:32 nafta wrote:On January 28 2013 23:28 MattBarry wrote:
If I'm playing a melee against a ranged, Ill get pretty mad if the jungler pushes my lane. It's not even about tax, just don't push it He just has to push it enough.But yeah when junglers fuck your wave it's the worst.Was darius vs kayle yesterday and I got dived.Traded 1 for 1.Then my jungler pushed just one wave so kayle could freeze.Then their jungler just waited in bush so I was useless whole game.Why is it so hard to understand if you will push at least push it to tower.... Yeah... did he push it or did he last hit? Because there is a big difference, if he last hitted, the wave would have pushed most likely anyways and he would have just passed on free gold + XP. Also having an enemy jungler camp a lane is not the worst thing in the world. Just ward your brushes and play defensive. The time he spends sitting around not achieving anything is time for your jungler to get ahead and do stuff on other parts of the map. So if you don't die and he just sits around, you're making a valuable contribution to the team. You are assuming your jungler isn't retarded.I've found that to be too often true even at decent elo.Also when i am level 5 to 7 in lane even if jungler is behind when you are useless whole game as a top laner who cares if he is slightly behind.Also pink wards are pretty good I hear.Kind of prevent you from knowing if he is in the bush . Having your brush pink warded sucks. But that wasn't really the point. It's more about how defensive laners get about their creeps and yes sometimes junglers are retarded and push lanes, but sometimes junglers just take cs in a lane that is already pushing anyways. Knowing where the enemy jungler is, makes a huge difference. You can be much more reckless when ganking, because you know that you won't get punished by the enemy jungler. It also allows the lanes to much more aggressively commit to your ganks. So it's not about outfarming the enemy jungler. It's about giving momentum to the rest of your team. And yes you will be behind but your jungler should use that to get the rest ahead. Still the level of retardness is universal and junglers are no different, so I can see where you're coming from. You don't seem to understand what I am saying.Their jungler doesn't even need to gank.If you are not a ranged top laner with escapes who can no longer 1v1 because your jungler doesn't understand how the lane pushes you WILL be useless for the remainder of the game no matter what happens.All of this happens because a lot of players don't understand it's better to lose 70 gold then to make your top laner(others as well but it is most problematic there) unable to do anything. You said it yourself that I should ward and I will be safe.What if after he doesn't push correctly your lane other lanes ward and he can't gank?It's not a coincidence wickd always tells jungler to push with him after they gank.....Unless it's more beneficial not to obviously. In the end: There is a bigger picture than 4 cs. I acknowledged what you said already in several ways, but you seem to refuse to entertain the notion that there might be circumstances where the jungler covering the lane is a good thing. As you bring up wicked, I've seen snoopeh cover lane for top or mid in order to let the cs/XP not go to waste in several pro games. That is what I was talking about, I never contested that blindly pushing the lane is a bad thing for the laner. Also pushing the lane had nothing to do with ganking. I just tried to say that knowing where the enemy jungler is by having him sit in a brush that is warded, opens up possibilities that can be exploited. Also the intial case I was describing was entirely different. The enemy had killed my top and pushed the wave to the tower. I went top and cleared the wave which was sitting under tower. He didn't have teleport and no way to get to the creeps. They would have damaged the tower and died to tower shots with the incoming wave pushing out again most likely. So in your opinion the correct course of action is to let the creeps hammer on the tower and just go and farm golems?
Misunderstanding I guess srry.In that case yeah you are right.Still you really need to try to keep in mind where lane will end up and in some situations it's better to leave some of the last hits or just push it afterwards really fast if death timers aren't like 5 seconds ^^.
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On January 29 2013 01:18 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 01:14 VayneAuthority wrote:
on the topic of gangplank hes really solid in the jungle right now. The addition of that CDR makes spirit of the lizard elder so good on him. Only need that as a damage item and rest tanky = raidboss That's cool. I know a lot of people don't like the Spirit Stone upgrades but I always feel weird just sitting on it for most of the game. I guess you can just sell it later but I'd just prefer if it builds into something useful.
Anyone who held onto Philo Stone in S2 shouldn't feel weird sitting on a Spirit Stone. It's basically the same principle only without the gp10. Also, the upgrades aren't that bad, just not high priorities in most cases (with a few exceptions).
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I rarely held on to a philo stone and if i ever did it was purely because of the gp10 making it basically free
i dunno why people dont like spirit of the ancient golem it allows you o get non merc tread boots making it very cost efficient if you already spend 800 on spirit stone
in terms of the defensive stats it's basically a 1600 gold sunfire which people seem to have a hard on for this patch
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spirit of the elder lizard is indeed a pretty decent item now with the 10% cdr. Xj9 also seems to really like it for Hecarim and Vi.
Only spirit of the spectral wraith is a weird item since I don't know any jungler that might make use of that apart from MAYBE Fiddle, Diana ( if not played mid) even then both would probably still prefer ancient golem because they are both dive junglers so being abit more tanky helps.
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I used to sit on Philo Stone because I fell into the GP10 trap. For most junglers, you got philo for the mana regen, not the GP10, and finishing reverie ASAP was a huge bonus to ganking (if early enough) or teamfighting
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On January 29 2013 01:37 Slayer91 wrote:
I rarely held on to a philo stone and if i ever did it was purely because of the gp10 making it basically free
i dunno why people dont like spirit of the ancient golem it allows you o get non merc tread boots making it very cost efficient if you already spend 800 on spirit stone
in terms of the defensive stats it's basically a 1600 gold sunfire which people seem to have a hard on for this patch
Except, the 800 on spirit stone is kinda suck anyways.
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it isnt if you realize how retardly cost effective spirit of the ancient golem is if you view it as costing only 1600
you basically get tenacity and 100 hp for free not to mention most t3 items are less cost efficient than base components
tenacity is worth at least 400 gold but considering how awkward it is to get you can value it more. Since you can get 15% cdr or so from cdr boots over mercs (but loss about 400 gold worth of mr) its actual value is around 400ish gold but getting isolated cdr like that is really hard same with magic pen or mobility boots ms for example
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United States23745 Posts
On January 29 2013 01:34 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 01:18 onlywonderboy wrote:On January 29 2013 01:14 VayneAuthority wrote:
on the topic of gangplank hes really solid in the jungle right now. The addition of that CDR makes spirit of the lizard elder so good on him. Only need that as a damage item and rest tanky = raidboss That's cool. I know a lot of people don't like the Spirit Stone upgrades but I always feel weird just sitting on it for most of the game. I guess you can just sell it later but I'd just prefer if it builds into something useful. Anyone who held onto Philo Stone in S2 shouldn't feel weird sitting on a Spirit Stone. It's basically the same principle only without the gp10. Also, the upgrades aren't that bad, just not high priorities in most cases (with a few exceptions).
I played a lot of champs that would upgrade it into Shurelya's Reverie at some point. I guess it's the same principle, not usually worth rushing but maybe worth it at some point.
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Shaco is so goooooood.
29-14 out of 43 games :D 68% winrate with it in ranked.
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United States23745 Posts
On January 29 2013 01:43 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 01:37 Slayer91 wrote:
I rarely held on to a philo stone and if i ever did it was purely because of the gp10 making it basically free
i dunno why people dont like spirit of the ancient golem it allows you o get non merc tread boots making it very cost efficient if you already spend 800 on spirit stone
in terms of the defensive stats it's basically a 1600 gold sunfire which people seem to have a hard on for this patch Except, the 800 on spirit stone is kinda suck anyways.
For that it's worth it's getting lowered to 700 next patch so it's going to suck 100 gold less.
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On January 29 2013 02:00 smOOthMayDie wrote:
Shaco is so goooooood.
29-14 out of 43 games :D 68% winrate with it in ranked.
Nice. I doubt I can get that on any champ unless I trolled down in elo or something.
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On January 28 2013 17:03 Irave wrote:
Farewell double IP weekend, it was fun.
Of course I was on vacation the whole week/weekend sighhhhhh
And I come back to see talk of AP Tryn wtf lol... I gotta go try this out :D
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Are there any recent tourney games where multiple lockets were purchased? I'm not making headway in the cost-effectiveness argument and would like to reply with an appeal to authority of my own. Thanks!
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EPT
