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On January 28 2013 16:15 Alzadar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 28 2013 16:11 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2013 16:02 Alzadar wrote:On January 28 2013 15:46 cLutZ wrote:On January 28 2013 15:10 Alzadar wrote:On January 28 2013 14:50 Diamond wrote:
It's amazing how many low elo players have no clue about AD mids. Just got called an idiot by 4 people because I said "You don't NEED an AP mid". Very interesting how oblivious they are. Eh, if you had said the same thing to high elo players a few months ago you'd have gotten the same response. I think in most cases you are still better off having an AP carry than two bruisers/AD casters. Eh. I think the Mid Lane AD Casters (besides Jarvan) are pretty much the easiest to play good champs in the game. Chars like Khazix are the kind of champs I want my (likely unreliable) teammates to play. Its almost impossible to miss void spikes (unlike Morgana/Lux/Zyra bind, Anivia Stun, etc) and AD champs are much better at killing towers once you get a lucky 3 for 1 in a happenstance jungle engagement. AD casters are only marginally better than AP carries at killing towers. You deal 40% of your AP + base AD to towers, and AP is half as expensive as AD. Ok, here's something I'm really curious about: why has everybody stopped building Randuin's Omen? From S2 to S3 it lost 5 armor and gained 150 hp. The slow passive is weaker but is a guranteed proc, and the attack speed slow is stronger AND is guaranteed now, making it ridiculous for dueling auto-attackers. Losing the attack speed slow from the active kind of sucks though. Most importantly, the #1 trash noobtrap item, Heart of Gold, is no longer part of the build path.  No attack speed makes a pretty big difference because poking it a copule of times and getting out is a lot more dangerous w/ those slow animation autos. Omen just not used as much because people are largely just stacking HP. It's still a fine item, but your incentive to buy one is diminished with how solid mogs is. And if you want armor/hp a lot of the people who would build it just end up snagging sunfire instead. Bit of math: Using a level 13 Lee Sin with armor yellows + Durability, Hardiness and Veteran's Scars masteries (+108 hp, +18 armor) His stats at level 13 with no items: 1533+108 = 1641 hp 64+18 = 82 armor 2986 effective physical health Assume the enemy has the 8% ArPen mastery With Warmogs:2641 hp 82 armor 4806 effective physical health With Randuin's2141 hp 152 armor 5395 effective physical health With Warmogs (Black Cleaver shred)2641 hp 61-10=51 armor 3987 effective physical health With Randuin's (Black Cleaver shred)2141 hp 114-10=104 armor 4367 effective physical health With Warmogs (Black Cleaver shred + LW penetration)2641 hp 61 armor -> penetrated to 29 3406 effective physical health With Randuin's (Black Cleaver shred + LW penetration)2141 hp 114 armor -> penetrated to 64 3511 effective physical health With 8% ArPen mastery on enemyWith Warmogs (Black Cleaver shred + LW penetration)2641 hp 61 armor -> penetrated to 26 3327 effective physical health With Randuin's (Black Cleaver shred + LW penetration)2141 hp 114 armor -> penetrated to 58 3382 effective physical health Even when fully shredded by a Black Cleaver AND penetrated by a Last Whisper, Randuin's STILL gives more effective health vs physical damage than Warmogs (only just) AND has lots of utility.*added 8% ArPen mastery, flat pen from BC and fixed LW penetration to 35% (forgot it wasn't 40%)
Those EHP numbers are actually pretty close. Also, consider that the warmogs is also protecting you from magic damage burst, and is giving you a retarded amount of health regen (which I wouldn't be bringing up if Randuins still had its health regen.) which, assuming you don't get 100->0'd pretty quickly, is netting you over 500 hp a minute on most characters.
As for Atmas, it's still not very good (it was overrated when it WAS considered good.)
at 3k hp, it's only giving you 45 AD. If it was combined with a stat besides crit it wouldnt be so awkward, but as it is, you need to be able to use crit in order to use Atma's.
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On January 28 2013 22:21 AsnSensation wrote:
Not claiming vi is op or anything but I was interested in trying her, but I'm not the type of guy that tries champs in normals so I jumped straight into ranked (sry about that^^) copied runes+masteries from xj9 and somwhat adopted his playstyle. Taxing lanes, farming alot, telling people to take non blue dependant mids because i will take the buffs. 8 Wins and 1 loss so far and the 1 loss was bc of one guy dc ed.
Was positively surprised how I ended up with the most cs and highest level in the game if you farm the wave after a succesful gank or just be there to farm the creeps after one of your mates died to a gank ( this is probably standard but I dont usually play jungler)
I ended up being fed most of the games going 10/1-3/xx most of the games. Also nothing better than screaming "FAAAAALCON PUNCH" after you killed someone haha.
@1700-1800Elo EUW
I always imaging that she screams "BUUUUUUUUSTED!".
On the note of taking lane tax. I lost a game yesterday because I dared to clean a wave under tower after top laner got ganked. He boycotted the game afterwards and just farmed my jungle, leaving me to take care of the top lane. I also didn't react to his pings prior before he died. He started pinging roughly two and a half minutes after the game started while I was clearing wraith and he died while I cleared red buff.
Any ideas on how to explain to your teammates in 10 seconds, that clearing their wave under tower is better for the team than letting the creeps damage the tower and die to tower shots?
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On January 28 2013 22:44 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2013 22:21 AsnSensation wrote:
Not claiming vi is op or anything but I was interested in trying her, but I'm not the type of guy that tries champs in normals so I jumped straight into ranked (sry about that^^) copied runes+masteries from xj9 and somwhat adopted his playstyle. Taxing lanes, farming alot, telling people to take non blue dependant mids because i will take the buffs. 8 Wins and 1 loss so far and the 1 loss was bc of one guy dc ed.
Was positively surprised how I ended up with the most cs and highest level in the game if you farm the wave after a succesful gank or just be there to farm the creeps after one of your mates died to a gank ( this is probably standard but I dont usually play jungler)
I ended up being fed most of the games going 10/1-3/xx most of the games. Also nothing better than screaming "FAAAAALCON PUNCH" after you killed someone haha.
@1700-1800Elo EUW I always imaging that she screams "BUUUUUUUUSTED!". On the note of taking lane tax. I lost a game yesterday because I dared to clean a wave under tower after top laner got ganked. He boycotted the game afterwards and just farmed my jungle, leaving me to take care of the top lane. I also didn't react to his pings prior before he died. He started pinging roughly two and a half minutes after the game started while I was clearing wraith and I died while I cleared red buff. Any ideas on how to explain to your teammates in 10 seconds, that clearing their wave under tower is better for the team than letting the creeps damage the tower and die to tower shots?
"Stop being a whiny bitch, are you 5 years old dude? "I'm so sad because my brother took my sweets!!!"" Is the best i can come up with, but i doubt it would work. Some people are just insane, and there is nothing you can do about it.
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I just had a Morde mid demand I give him the blue lvl1. I was Amumu.
He really tried hard to take it. I had to smite it. '-.-
then he ragequit.
Some people are just craaaazy morons.
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If I'm playing a melee against a ranged, Ill get pretty mad if the jungler pushes my lane. It's not even about tax, just don't push it
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On January 28 2013 23:28 MattBarry wrote:
If I'm playing a melee against a ranged, Ill get pretty mad if the jungler pushes my lane. It's not even about tax, just don't push it
He just has to push it enough.But yeah when junglers fuck your wave it's the worst.Was darius vs kayle yesterday and I got dived.Traded 1 for 1.Then my jungler pushed just one wave so kayle could freeze.Then their jungler just waited in bush so I was useless whole game.Why is it so hard to understand if you will push at least push it to tower....
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Drive by smiling turret minions is fun when I play jungle, I love people's reactions. I'd rather them do that then push the wave so I can't farm.
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On January 28 2013 23:26 Dandel Ion wrote:
I just had a Morde mid demand I give him the blue lvl1. I was Amumu.
He really tried hard to take it. I had to smite it. '-.-
then he ragequit.
Some people are just craaaazy morons.
Oh that reminds me of a game when i was still leveling up. I was jungling Amumu and a Xin going solo bot said he will take the first blue (he called it "the rune").
I guess he was just kinda new to the notion of jungling.
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On January 28 2013 23:32 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2013 23:28 MattBarry wrote:
If I'm playing a melee against a ranged, Ill get pretty mad if the jungler pushes my lane. It's not even about tax, just don't push it He just has to push it enough.But yeah when junglers fuck your wave it's the worst.Was darius vs kayle yesterday and I got dived.Traded 1 for 1.Then my jungler pushed just one wave so kayle could freeze.Then their jungler just waited in bush so I was useless whole game.Why is it so hard to understand if you will push at least push it to tower....
Yeah... did he push it or did he last hit? Because there is a big difference, if he last hitted, the wave would have pushed most likely anyways and he would have just passed on free gold + XP. Also having an enemy jungler camp a lane is not the worst thing in the world. Just ward your brushes and play defensive. The time he spends sitting around not achieving anything is time for your jungler to get ahead and do stuff on other parts of the map. So if you don't die and he just sits around, you're making a valuable contribution to the team.
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On January 28 2013 23:56 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2013 23:32 nafta wrote:On January 28 2013 23:28 MattBarry wrote:
If I'm playing a melee against a ranged, Ill get pretty mad if the jungler pushes my lane. It's not even about tax, just don't push it He just has to push it enough.But yeah when junglers fuck your wave it's the worst.Was darius vs kayle yesterday and I got dived.Traded 1 for 1.Then my jungler pushed just one wave so kayle could freeze.Then their jungler just waited in bush so I was useless whole game.Why is it so hard to understand if you will push at least push it to tower.... Yeah... did he push it or did he last hit? Because there is a big difference, if he last hitted, the wave would have pushed most likely anyways and he would have just passed on free gold + XP. Also having an enemy jungler camp a lane is not the worst thing in the world. Just ward your brushes and play defensive. The time he spends sitting around not achieving anything is time for your jungler to get ahead and do stuff on other parts of the map. So if you don't die and he just sits around, you're making a valuable contribution to the team.
You are assuming your jungler isn't retarded.I've found that to be too often true even at decent elo.Also when i am level 5 to 7 in lane even if jungler is behind when you are useless whole game as a top laner who cares if he is slightly behind.Also pink wards are pretty good I hear.Kind of prevent you from knowing if he is in the bush  .
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lol so apparently LilBallz is married.
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On January 28 2013 23:56 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2013 23:32 nafta wrote:On January 28 2013 23:28 MattBarry wrote:
If I'm playing a melee against a ranged, Ill get pretty mad if the jungler pushes my lane. It's not even about tax, just don't push it He just has to push it enough.But yeah when junglers fuck your wave it's the worst.Was darius vs kayle yesterday and I got dived.Traded 1 for 1.Then my jungler pushed just one wave so kayle could freeze.Then their jungler just waited in bush so I was useless whole game.Why is it so hard to understand if you will push at least push it to tower.... Yeah... did he push it or did he last hit? Because there is a big difference, if he last hitted, the wave would have pushed most likely anyways and he would have just passed on free gold + XP. Also having an enemy jungler camp a lane is not the worst thing in the world. Just ward your brushes and play defensive. The time he spends sitting around not achieving anything is time for your jungler to get ahead and do stuff on other parts of the map. So if you don't die and he just sits around, you're making a valuable contribution to the team.
Last hitting still pushes the way, but if it was the case that the lane was going to push anyway, he should have shoved it hardcore instead and let their tower reset it. Leaving it for the other guy to freeze is pretty much the worst thing you can d.
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On January 29 2013 00:04 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2013 23:56 BlueSpace wrote:On January 28 2013 23:32 nafta wrote:On January 28 2013 23:28 MattBarry wrote:
If I'm playing a melee against a ranged, Ill get pretty mad if the jungler pushes my lane. It's not even about tax, just don't push it He just has to push it enough.But yeah when junglers fuck your wave it's the worst.Was darius vs kayle yesterday and I got dived.Traded 1 for 1.Then my jungler pushed just one wave so kayle could freeze.Then their jungler just waited in bush so I was useless whole game.Why is it so hard to understand if you will push at least push it to tower.... Yeah... did he push it or did he last hit? Because there is a big difference, if he last hitted, the wave would have pushed most likely anyways and he would have just passed on free gold + XP. Also having an enemy jungler camp a lane is not the worst thing in the world. Just ward your brushes and play defensive. The time he spends sitting around not achieving anything is time for your jungler to get ahead and do stuff on other parts of the map. So if you don't die and he just sits around, you're making a valuable contribution to the team. You are assuming your jungler isn't retarded.I've found that to be too often true even at decent elo.Also when i am level 5 to 7 in lane even if jungler is behind when you are useless whole game as a top laner who cares if he is slightly behind.Also pink wards are pretty good I hear.Kind of prevent you from knowing if he is in the bush .
Having your brush pink warded sucks. But that wasn't really the point. It's more about how defensive laners get about their creeps and yes sometimes junglers are retarded and push lanes, but sometimes junglers just take cs in a lane that is already pushing anyways.
Knowing where the enemy jungler is, makes a huge difference. You can be much more reckless when ganking, because you know that you won't get punished by the enemy jungler. It also allows the lanes to much more aggressively commit to your ganks. So it's not about outfarming the enemy jungler. It's about giving momentum to the rest of your team. And yes you will be behind but your jungler should use that to get the rest ahead.
Still the level of retardness is universal and junglers are no different, so I can see where you're coming from.
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On January 29 2013 00:29 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 00:04 nafta wrote:On January 28 2013 23:56 BlueSpace wrote:On January 28 2013 23:32 nafta wrote:On January 28 2013 23:28 MattBarry wrote:
If I'm playing a melee against a ranged, Ill get pretty mad if the jungler pushes my lane. It's not even about tax, just don't push it He just has to push it enough.But yeah when junglers fuck your wave it's the worst.Was darius vs kayle yesterday and I got dived.Traded 1 for 1.Then my jungler pushed just one wave so kayle could freeze.Then their jungler just waited in bush so I was useless whole game.Why is it so hard to understand if you will push at least push it to tower.... Yeah... did he push it or did he last hit? Because there is a big difference, if he last hitted, the wave would have pushed most likely anyways and he would have just passed on free gold + XP. Also having an enemy jungler camp a lane is not the worst thing in the world. Just ward your brushes and play defensive. The time he spends sitting around not achieving anything is time for your jungler to get ahead and do stuff on other parts of the map. So if you don't die and he just sits around, you're making a valuable contribution to the team. You are assuming your jungler isn't retarded.I've found that to be too often true even at decent elo.Also when i am level 5 to 7 in lane even if jungler is behind when you are useless whole game as a top laner who cares if he is slightly behind.Also pink wards are pretty good I hear.Kind of prevent you from knowing if he is in the bush . Having your brush pink warded sucks. But that wasn't really the point. It's more about how defensive laners get about their creeps and yes sometimes junglers are retarded and push lanes, but sometimes junglers just take cs in a lane that is already pushing anyways. Knowing where the enemy jungler is, makes a huge difference. You can be much more reckless when ganking, because you know that you won't get punished by the enemy jungler. It also allows the lanes to much more aggressively commit to your ganks. So it's not about outfarming the enemy jungler. It's about giving momentum to the rest of your team. And yes you will be behind but your jungler should use that to get the rest ahead. Still the level of retardness is universal and junglers are no different, so I can see where you're coming from.
You don't seem to understand what I am saying.Their jungler doesn't even need to gank.If you are not a ranged top laner with escapes who can no longer 1v1 because your jungler doesn't understand how the lane pushes you WILL be useless for the remainder of the game no matter what happens.All of this happens because a lot of players don't understand it's better to lose 70 gold then to make your top laner(others as well but it is most problematic there) unable to do anything.
You said it yourself that I should ward and I will be safe.What if after he doesn't push correctly your lane other lanes ward and he can't gank?It's not a coincidence wickd always tells jungler to push with him after they gank.....Unless it's more beneficial not to obviously.
In the end: There is a bigger picture than 4 cs.
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Wat, Vi is stupid broken champ. Doesn't matter how fed your AP or AD is, she can just suppress and 1v1.
I'd argue support has a hard time with low ping just like everyone else (or even harder in a way). Other resources like gold, experience, etc. tend to be the most limited already. You depend on your utility to be effective mostly, and you need really good reactions to make the most of it. The most obv examples would be Sona and Leona ult-- a half second is the difference between catching 4 members of their team in it and giving your team 2 seconds to whale on them, or landing the ult on one useless champ and then getting curbstomped.
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United States23745 Posts
On January 29 2013 00:52 ticklishmusic wrote:
Wat, Vi is stupid broken champ. Doesn't matter how fed your AP or AD is, she can just suppress and 1v1.
I'd argue support has a hard time with low ping just like everyone else (or even harder in a way). Other resources like gold, experience, etc. tend to be the most limited already. You depend on your utility to be effective mostly, and you need really good reactions to make the most of it. The most obv examples would be Sona and Leona ult-- a half second is the difference between catching 4 members of their team in it and giving your team 2 seconds to whale on them, or landing the ult on one useless champ and then getting curbstomped.
High ping Blitz hooks no me gusta.
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United States15536 Posts
On January 29 2013 00:56 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 00:52 ticklishmusic wrote:
Wat, Vi is stupid broken champ. Doesn't matter how fed your AP or AD is, she can just suppress and 1v1.
I'd argue support has a hard time with low ping just like everyone else (or even harder in a way). Other resources like gold, experience, etc. tend to be the most limited already. You depend on your utility to be effective mostly, and you need really good reactions to make the most of it. The most obv examples would be Sona and Leona ult-- a half second is the difference between catching 4 members of their team in it and giving your team 2 seconds to whale on them, or landing the ult on one useless champ and then getting curbstomped. High ping Blitz hooks no me gusta.
Can't pull off the Thresh/Blitz combos with high ping. wat do?
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On January 29 2013 00:56 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 00:52 ticklishmusic wrote:
Wat, Vi is stupid broken champ. Doesn't matter how fed your AP or AD is, she can just suppress and 1v1.
I'd argue support has a hard time with low ping just like everyone else (or even harder in a way). Other resources like gold, experience, etc. tend to be the most limited already. You depend on your utility to be effective mostly, and you need really good reactions to make the most of it. The most obv examples would be Sona and Leona ult-- a half second is the difference between catching 4 members of their team in it and giving your team 2 seconds to whale on them, or landing the ult on one useless champ and then getting curbstomped. High ping Blitz hooks no me gusta.
I was going to make that my obvious example, but he's always banned. 
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On January 28 2013 17:10 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2013 17:04 Amui wrote:
In all honesty the problem with randuin's is
A. HoG gone. So there's that incentive gone
B. Warden's mail change. Before against certain lanes top(riven, panth for example), you could rush that thing and literally sit in lane all day and farm. Now it's a pretty bad laning item mostly because the hp5 is gone.
C. Funfire gives much the same stats, but lets you push&out trade a lot. It's not that much, but the sunfire damage does add up in trades. Ugh. Few things make me sadder than the fact that the untimely removal of HoG from the game means it will forever remain in the minds of so many as being a good item.
I think HOG hate on TL went a bit too far. It was a decent jungler item and it built into Randuins, which was awesome. GP5 is only dumb when you got it for the sake of GP5 (ala Bankplank).
As an aside, Bankplank as an idea makes no sense looking back on it. Oh how the meta shifts.`
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which is why nobody ever played it seriously
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EPT
