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On January 25 2013 09:00 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 08:54 Numy wrote:
It's always about long term vs short term. People want instant results and exposure instead of something that takes longer but lasts longer at the same time. I mean, it made sense 6 months to a year ago when being a strong team in NA felt like it meant more. At this point though, does anyone really care about high ELO NA team #32587281? Either you can beat Koreans or you're nobody.
Or if you can beat Asians in general at this point
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Hahaha, Alistar flash-pulv-headbutts Thresh into baron pit, Thresh panic flashes out and Orianna misses her ult because of it (ball was on him). Heartbeattt is all "Oh it's fine we got it easy now"
Jarvan EQs in and smite-steals.
"... or not". They were so chill the whole time, like admitting they were deep in anyway with a farmed Kog on the enemy team. 
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On January 25 2013 08:49 Irave wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 07:15 zulu_nation8 wrote:
I really have problems understanding what most of the NA managers do exactly? I've repeatedly contacted many who were looking for players or scrims and have either been ignored or treated like shit. The orb agent guy who got his team a sponsor that scammed them and have posted here before literally did not return any messages for a week straight. The manager for GGU/TD looked for scrims then rejected my offer citing that my team is too "low elo" and he'd rather go play with their 1600 ranked 5s team. There is a scrim group that I got removed from the second day because apparently my brand new team lost a scrim too fast and did not have consistent lineup, the owner of the group is the manager for One Trick Ponies who got dumped on in LCS.
Teams have the right to reject scrim offers, but to reject by citing "elo" and in a very rude manner is downright disrespectful especially considering most of these managers like, don't do anything. The only good experiences I've had have been dealing with the players themselves and guitar who is actually very professional.
I find it hilarious but also appalling that the competitive scene for NA is so xenophobic. NA is the worst region, the top teams have not won any international competitions in forever, the lower tier teams all have literally 0 accomplishments unless you count qualifying through LCS as something worthy within the international scene. I wouldn't be as bothered if teams were ran by players who are actually involved, but I have never heard of any of these managers and it really seems like they are mostly a bunch of high schoolers who wanna put shit on their resume and jerk off high elo players.
Similarlym I'm also constantly surprised at the egos of players who have competitive experience but are looking for teams. Yes I understand taking a scrim off of a team like curse is an astronomical accomplishment considering how despicable the level of competition in the NA scene is but to use that as a sort of bargaining chip or proof of talent is downright sad. Nonetheless everyone seems to love sticking with their own incest pool of washed up players with a small time twitter following, because apparently "name" is a commodity in NA LoL which tbh, is a fucking joke. Most teams only have managers because they are qt asian girls. Most do try and setup scrims, but the players are so young that schedules appear really chaotic. So its a headache trying to get a consistent amount going. So with the time they can get to work, they want the best. This should improve greatly when the top 8 move in with their teams. Also what else are they supposed to judge you on for wanting to scrim them if not elo? Your team getting removed for having an inconsistent roster also makes sense. It sounds like they wanted to build a foundation for a good scrim environment and wanted players that could commit. Not necessarily have to wait around while they look for a sub. The rest, uhh. You seem to have a lot of hate for this part of LoL. Yet want so badly to be apart of it =/
none of what you say is true, except that i wanna get into competitive yea l0l0l so mad but tryhard.
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On January 25 2013 09:00 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 08:54 Numy wrote:
It's always about long term vs short term. People want instant results and exposure instead of something that takes longer but lasts longer at the same time. I mean, it made sense 6 months to a year ago when being a strong team in NA felt like it meant more. At this point though, does anyone really care about high ELO NA team #32587281? Either you can beat Koreans or you're nobody.
this is the right mindset
I wanna play competitive 5s because i think i can be better. I believe I've proved myself through solo queue this season if not for other people but for myself. I haven't played every notable jungler but there is no one I felt was levels ahead of me except for xj9, and I've dumped on plenty of other ones who are supposed to be good. I'm a standard nobody whos trying to break into the competitive scene, yet I've been treated like shit by managers because they think managing some shitty team who made to LCS makes them entitled.
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On January 25 2013 09:45 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 08:49 Irave wrote:On January 25 2013 07:15 zulu_nation8 wrote:
I really have problems understanding what most of the NA managers do exactly? I've repeatedly contacted many who were looking for players or scrims and have either been ignored or treated like shit. The orb agent guy who got his team a sponsor that scammed them and have posted here before literally did not return any messages for a week straight. The manager for GGU/TD looked for scrims then rejected my offer citing that my team is too "low elo" and he'd rather go play with their 1600 ranked 5s team. There is a scrim group that I got removed from the second day because apparently my brand new team lost a scrim too fast and did not have consistent lineup, the owner of the group is the manager for One Trick Ponies who got dumped on in LCS.
Teams have the right to reject scrim offers, but to reject by citing "elo" and in a very rude manner is downright disrespectful especially considering most of these managers like, don't do anything. The only good experiences I've had have been dealing with the players themselves and guitar who is actually very professional.
I find it hilarious but also appalling that the competitive scene for NA is so xenophobic. NA is the worst region, the top teams have not won any international competitions in forever, the lower tier teams all have literally 0 accomplishments unless you count qualifying through LCS as something worthy within the international scene. I wouldn't be as bothered if teams were ran by players who are actually involved, but I have never heard of any of these managers and it really seems like they are mostly a bunch of high schoolers who wanna put shit on their resume and jerk off high elo players.
Similarlym I'm also constantly surprised at the egos of players who have competitive experience but are looking for teams. Yes I understand taking a scrim off of a team like curse is an astronomical accomplishment considering how despicable the level of competition in the NA scene is but to use that as a sort of bargaining chip or proof of talent is downright sad. Nonetheless everyone seems to love sticking with their own incest pool of washed up players with a small time twitter following, because apparently "name" is a commodity in NA LoL which tbh, is a fucking joke. Most teams only have managers because they are qt asian girls. Most do try and setup scrims, but the players are so young that schedules appear really chaotic. So its a headache trying to get a consistent amount going. So with the time they can get to work, they want the best. This should improve greatly when the top 8 move in with their teams. Also what else are they supposed to judge you on for wanting to scrim them if not elo? Your team getting removed for having an inconsistent roster also makes sense. It sounds like they wanted to build a foundation for a good scrim environment and wanted players that could commit. Not necessarily have to wait around while they look for a sub. The rest, uhh. You seem to have a lot of hate for this part of LoL. Yet want so badly to be apart of it =/ none of what you say is true, except that i wanna get into competitive yea l0l0l so mad but tryhard.
Get high on the ladder (team)... and proof them wrong with the whole ELO thing.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
Heartbeattt running 1 Crit Red on his AD Rune page lol
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On January 25 2013 09:55 ExoFun wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 09:45 zulu_nation8 wrote:On January 25 2013 08:49 Irave wrote:On January 25 2013 07:15 zulu_nation8 wrote:
I really have problems understanding what most of the NA managers do exactly? I've repeatedly contacted many who were looking for players or scrims and have either been ignored or treated like shit. The orb agent guy who got his team a sponsor that scammed them and have posted here before literally did not return any messages for a week straight. The manager for GGU/TD looked for scrims then rejected my offer citing that my team is too "low elo" and he'd rather go play with their 1600 ranked 5s team. There is a scrim group that I got removed from the second day because apparently my brand new team lost a scrim too fast and did not have consistent lineup, the owner of the group is the manager for One Trick Ponies who got dumped on in LCS.
Teams have the right to reject scrim offers, but to reject by citing "elo" and in a very rude manner is downright disrespectful especially considering most of these managers like, don't do anything. The only good experiences I've had have been dealing with the players themselves and guitar who is actually very professional.
I find it hilarious but also appalling that the competitive scene for NA is so xenophobic. NA is the worst region, the top teams have not won any international competitions in forever, the lower tier teams all have literally 0 accomplishments unless you count qualifying through LCS as something worthy within the international scene. I wouldn't be as bothered if teams were ran by players who are actually involved, but I have never heard of any of these managers and it really seems like they are mostly a bunch of high schoolers who wanna put shit on their resume and jerk off high elo players.
Similarlym I'm also constantly surprised at the egos of players who have competitive experience but are looking for teams. Yes I understand taking a scrim off of a team like curse is an astronomical accomplishment considering how despicable the level of competition in the NA scene is but to use that as a sort of bargaining chip or proof of talent is downright sad. Nonetheless everyone seems to love sticking with their own incest pool of washed up players with a small time twitter following, because apparently "name" is a commodity in NA LoL which tbh, is a fucking joke. Most teams only have managers because they are qt asian girls. Most do try and setup scrims, but the players are so young that schedules appear really chaotic. So its a headache trying to get a consistent amount going. So with the time they can get to work, they want the best. This should improve greatly when the top 8 move in with their teams. Also what else are they supposed to judge you on for wanting to scrim them if not elo? Your team getting removed for having an inconsistent roster also makes sense. It sounds like they wanted to build a foundation for a good scrim environment and wanted players that could commit. Not necessarily have to wait around while they look for a sub. The rest, uhh. You seem to have a lot of hate for this part of LoL. Yet want so badly to be apart of it =/ none of what you say is true, except that i wanna get into competitive yea l0l0l so mad but tryhard. Get high on the ladder (team)... and proof them wrong with the whole ELO thing.
i am high elo and my team is really high elo, it's all we have going on because we are inexperienced in 5s and a bunch of no names. I had a sub who didnt play much ranked this season but was on TPA and top 500 beta, and was denied a scrim because he was 1800 or something with very few games played. The manager for GGU literally just lolking'd us and said nope too low elo.
There are also a lot of little things that annoys me, such as every time after a scrim i would ask for advice, and people are always so hesitant to say anything. No one wants to help anyone, and everyone thinks everyone else sucks. It's a very toxic environment.
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On January 25 2013 09:58 MoonBear wrote:
Heartbeattt running 1 Crit Red on his AD Rune page lol
Many players are doing that... atleast in europe.
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Heartbeat must be the first player on earth without max-size minimap. How does he even see anything ? oO
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On January 25 2013 08:37 Roffles wrote:
Bly, you just described why NA sucks.
If the farm system sucks, you ain't gonna be bringing new talent into the big leagues. That's why NA recycles used trash over and over instead of developing new players and new teams. Some "top" tier NA teams refuse to scrim each other because of who knows what, and they're too busy fucking around in trolo q instead of actually practicing. It's as if people don't care.
Azubu Frost needed a top laner, so they went and got some guy no one had heard of. After months of training, he turned out to be a beast. Caomei was a pile of shit at S2 championships for WE, and by the time IPL5 came around, he was a monster. But in the NA scene you have a bunch of people tossing around used goods like Polaroid instant cameras as if they're still good now.
No player development, Americans are fuckin lazy, and too much satisfaction from streaming that cuts into any desire to actually get good at the game and win something. Perennial losers, and until something changes in terms of how NA approaches the scene, they'll always be losers.
& zulu's quote which im too lazy to find
Umm, people who talk about how THIS (this = poor farm system due to personalities) is the downfall of NA scene is much off base and it brings to the point of just flaming things you dont like and creating some connection between bad results and something you dont like.
1st issue: zulu's talk about NA managers. Trust me when i say i hate managers, i honestly do, ive interacted with a lot, had some, and etc and while i dont hate them personally (well, some of them), professionally they are jokes mostly. THAT BEING SAID, what you described is not the fault of managers, in fact i would say that is managers trying their best.
re: "people wont scrim my team",
1st - this point is brought up stupidly, 1 team you mentioned turned you down (GGU, who in fact i know is particularly apt to turn people down in this situation, aka i wouldnt classify them as "the norm").
2nd, this most likely isnt the fault of the manager, the manager probably goes to the team and is like "do you want to scrim these people?" who then the team is like "who is it?" finds names, etc, then the team gets back to manager who then tells you no. Managers can most likely not even tell skill because they are 95% of the time not high elo themselves, if you tell a manager some solo Q players names they probably wont recognize them while obviously the team would. So, blaming the managers for this is silly, its the teams decision most of the time.
3rd, this idea of not scrimming exceedingly weak teams is not something that is just pure discrimination, it is an opinion that has been formed after being in the situation several times. I know when our tema first started we were up to scrim anyone, thats all good, but by the end we were being a bit more limited and selective, because when scrimming teams who were much lower skill level than us not only was it not as good to practice against simply cause they made more mistakes (but this isnt a dealbreaking issue), but also we wouldnt focus, communicate, etc. when playing these teams, and actually form bad habits OURSELVES. This isnt saying that no "good" team should ever scrim some unknown team, but that maybe the SPECIFIC team you asked might have formed their own scrimming ideology based on their own personalities. I am of the opinion that good teams should scrim new bad teams sometimes (esp if there are no top tier teams scrimming at the time), but if a bad team asked me while on aL i would probably say no simply cause i know our team couldnt handle it.
re: "they kicked me out of the chat"
I know the specific chat you are talking about, and while it is very fanboy-clique type chat i know as someone who was a user of that chat that it would be often annoying when teams who formed for 1 week and got a name who were very mediocre were invited to that chat, i understand maybe your team was different!! maybe you were the exception! but still, i honestly would favor having some boarder to entry into that chat seeing as it got filled with a ton of irrelevant people who literally intruded in the whole purpose of the chat.
so, i understand you can hate on the managers, and i hate on them a lot (Cause who else would spend the time and skill investment into a "job" which gives no pay and no reward other than some people who are just desperate and want to be in the clique >_>) but in all honesty other than the orb agent one, i think those were the managers trying their best.
OK, on to the 2nd issue, which is the whole "omg NA scene sucks because xyz". I think, from the outside, the NA scene looks much different than on the inside. you often see lines like this: "That's why NA recycles used trash over and over instead of developing new players and new teams.", "they're too busy fucking around in trolo q instead of actually practicing.", the opinion about how top teams drop too many players, or even the previously popular opinion about how NA people are more about showmanship than winning. I can see where people are coming from when they say these things given that they are only given the information they get from watching games or streams or interviews, but these are not the real issues with NA scene imo.
1st thing to talk about, is the biggest reason why i think the NA scene can not compete with the international scene, which is the accessibility to competitive. Many people see this and assume its simply friendly connections and such and thats why they recycle players so much or thats why there is no new talent development and such, this is not true. There are tons of amatuer teams who play very often and the top teams know about these teams and the players and its not that "there are breakout stars in here that are ignored by the pro scene!", its that these people either do actually suck or have talent but it can not be developed. The biggest issue is MONEY. To be competitive with international scene and even the local scene now it has shifted a lot since possibly s1. to be competitive you need to be a FULL TIME PLAYER. This is something kinda seen as obvious, right ? people always say "NA needs to practice more!" and to do this they need to be full time players. Everyone knows and says this, but nobody actually knows the implications of this. This means that you cant go to school, you dont have a job, you are just strictly playing, and that is your source of income. Everyone outside the scene is then like "oh, just stream!" and everyone thinks that the truly talented people are streamers ! this is complete bull shit. Even already famous established pro players who stream can only barely make a living off of it (think xpecial/regi's streams, everyone cept scarra from dig, everyone on crs cept SV, everyone on fear, everyone on ex-C9).
So, to be competitive you need to be full time player, and to be a full time player you need money, since there is no structure in place for talented players who want to go pro in NA. There are no gaming houses for just general players or amateur players, and to go to a gaming house is a HUGE investment seeing as you have to quit every other non-gaming thing, and move (often times) very far away. Compare this to something like asia where the infrastructure is closer, its more established as a profession, its still risky but not as much of a "wtf? is this really stable?" type thing, and it is simply less money to do so.
the NA scene doesnt recycle so much because it is a clique and only choose from friends (though, that does happen sometimes), its because the pool of ABLE players is so small, there are so few players who are able and willing to go full time who are also talented, then add in that you want someone experienced (as you dont have the ability to be like "hey, were gonna try to develop this guy and lose tourneys for next 3 months while we get him to shine", thats a huge hit to your livelyhood, not to mention its more risk cause it might not even work).
Ok so the 2nd common thing is "NA is lazy, they dont practice, solo qqqqqq !!!" I think this is silly and naive to think that NA teams dont practice. I think that, especially leading up to an event, NA teams practice plenty / a lot. I think that NA teams don't practice as much as korean teams, like while korean teams may practice 10 hours a day na may only do 7-8 hours a day, but i dont think this is what makes such a striking difference (although, an improvement in the management standards would close this gap tbh). I know first hand that the top teams practice a lot, this opinion of "NA teams only solo Q" maybe was right like 9 months ago or something, but since the scene has come to more competitiveness, and there was no longer this huge gap between CLG (and tsm) and everyone else, the top teams have been taking it much more seriously (as tsm moved into gaming house, clg did & korea, dig dropped all other stuff and are full time gaming team, teams such as fear and c9 went to full gaming team, crs went to gaming house, etc.). While im not saying this isnt an issue, in all honesty NA teams need to get good managers who can control their time EFFICIENTLY etc., but this isnt something that is "the downfall of NA".
i wrote too much to do a nice conclusion or something >_> <_< sigh too many words for no reason
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United States47024 Posts
On January 25 2013 09:30 nafta wrote:
Also(I think I'm in the minority here) but people are really overrating drafting phase of the game.Yes it's important but if you just use your picks correctly,pick general champs that work well together and simply have a good strategy of how to use your picks-if you are better you SHOULD win.Honestly most losses in league currently I've seen in pro games have been due to outplays.If it's due to picks they just don't have good synergy or the players don't have the correct mindset on how to play the champ or the style of the comp.
All games will look like "outplays". It's basically never the case where a draft leaves the other team so helpless they have no way into the game. The draft tells you where your margin of error is--what fights you can afford to lose, which fights you're guaranteed to lose, and which fights you cannot lose.
I'm sure you've seen a game where two teams play a seemingly even game, then they teamfight once, the winner takes control of the game, and just seals the game from there on out. Did you ask yourself why that team won? "They just outplayed the other team" isn't a satisfactory answer--because not every game is dictated by one fight like that. Not every game throws the victor of the first teamfight firmly in control of the game. The pace of the game and the direction it takes with regard to these kinds of things is dictated by the draft. The draft tells you what point in the game your team is strong, what point in the game it's weak. It tells you which fights in the game you MUST win, and it tells you which fights in the game you CANNOT win.
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On January 25 2013 09:47 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 09:00 TheYango wrote:On January 25 2013 08:54 Numy wrote:
It's always about long term vs short term. People want instant results and exposure instead of something that takes longer but lasts longer at the same time. I mean, it made sense 6 months to a year ago when being a strong team in NA felt like it meant more. At this point though, does anyone really care about high ELO NA team #32587281? Either you can beat Koreans or you're nobody. this is the right mindset I wanna play competitive 5s because i think i can be better. I believe I've proved myself through solo queue this season if not for other people but for myself. I haven't played every notable jungler but there is no one I felt was levels ahead of me except for xj9, and I've dumped on plenty of other ones who are supposed to be good. I'm a standard nobody whos trying to break into the competitive scene, yet I've been treated like shit by managers because they think managing some shitty team who made to LCS makes them entitled.
i think winning 5s and trying to get into CLG's tournament or IPL6 qualifiers would have been the right move, as their qualifications were largely based on ranked 5s ELO. afaik there will be another route to qualify to go to IPL6 through the ladder, so getting higher up on the 5v5 ladder would not hurt (and is decent practice when starting off when getting games together is the priority).
if you want a less pressure situation (in terms of ranked games counting for elo as a team etc) then making an extra ranked 5s team to try out kids and to improve with before moving onto a "real" team could be okay.
you can bemoan the faults of the system (and be right while not accomplishing much) or try to work around the faults in the short run. i recommend the latter.
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On January 25 2013 09:45 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 08:49 Irave wrote:On January 25 2013 07:15 zulu_nation8 wrote:
I really have problems understanding what most of the NA managers do exactly? I've repeatedly contacted many who were looking for players or scrims and have either been ignored or treated like shit. The orb agent guy who got his team a sponsor that scammed them and have posted here before literally did not return any messages for a week straight. The manager for GGU/TD looked for scrims then rejected my offer citing that my team is too "low elo" and he'd rather go play with their 1600 ranked 5s team. There is a scrim group that I got removed from the second day because apparently my brand new team lost a scrim too fast and did not have consistent lineup, the owner of the group is the manager for One Trick Ponies who got dumped on in LCS.
Teams have the right to reject scrim offers, but to reject by citing "elo" and in a very rude manner is downright disrespectful especially considering most of these managers like, don't do anything. The only good experiences I've had have been dealing with the players themselves and guitar who is actually very professional.
I find it hilarious but also appalling that the competitive scene for NA is so xenophobic. NA is the worst region, the top teams have not won any international competitions in forever, the lower tier teams all have literally 0 accomplishments unless you count qualifying through LCS as something worthy within the international scene. I wouldn't be as bothered if teams were ran by players who are actually involved, but I have never heard of any of these managers and it really seems like they are mostly a bunch of high schoolers who wanna put shit on their resume and jerk off high elo players.
Similarlym I'm also constantly surprised at the egos of players who have competitive experience but are looking for teams. Yes I understand taking a scrim off of a team like curse is an astronomical accomplishment considering how despicable the level of competition in the NA scene is but to use that as a sort of bargaining chip or proof of talent is downright sad. Nonetheless everyone seems to love sticking with their own incest pool of washed up players with a small time twitter following, because apparently "name" is a commodity in NA LoL which tbh, is a fucking joke. Most teams only have managers because they are qt asian girls. Most do try and setup scrims, but the players are so young that schedules appear really chaotic. So its a headache trying to get a consistent amount going. So with the time they can get to work, they want the best. This should improve greatly when the top 8 move in with their teams. Also what else are they supposed to judge you on for wanting to scrim them if not elo? Your team getting removed for having an inconsistent roster also makes sense. It sounds like they wanted to build a foundation for a good scrim environment and wanted players that could commit. Not necessarily have to wait around while they look for a sub. The rest, uhh. You seem to have a lot of hate for this part of LoL. Yet want so badly to be apart of it =/ none of what you say is true
Sure it is, you see plenty of it watching streams, or just following the scene. "Hey you want to or know someone that would sub for us this scrim". Or damn scrim got cancelled because player x couldn't show up. People had commitments outside of the game, or just things popping up outside of their control. Not really the managers fault. So why would I be in the wrong to think the 1TP manager really wanted to setup some structure to avoid all of that? Now with the league players are postponing school, quitting their jobs and playing full time. If you don't think the scrim environment will improve when people start moving in together idk. Obviously GGU was able to make it work since they were able to qualify. But to direct your feelings at managers for not wanting to scrim with you seems meh. You can think whatever for why your team was removed from the scrim group. I think the not having a steady roster stands out.
Congrats too, I don't think the horse is dead yet of how bad the NA scene is. Plus lots of players with previous experience remain teamless. Now look at the amount of new blood in the top 8 of NA, then add all of the amateur teams. If you really wanted to make it work, this would be the easiest time.
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I understand that and I agree, I had a roster to try to qualify for CLG tourney but it didn't work out. Playing ranked 5s definitely wouldn't hurt but it would mostly only be for rating. If you look at 408's team's match history they have played very few good teams, and they would come up 1 out of 4-5 games, ranked 5s queues get long after a certain elo, and to grind up to 1700s in a decentish time takes a lot of luck based on good teams being in queue so you get more than +12 per win. I am frustrated and I understand complaining doesn't do anything. I am honestly just surprised at how hard it is to even get a decent game after having 5 together.
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Great post Spellsy. Thanks.
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Random Thresh question: Do yorick's ghouls award souls?
2nd Random question: Now that Bischu is a sub for TBC, who is FXO trying/using for middle (unless navi is back, in which case who is now jungling)?
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On January 25 2013 10:14 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
Random Thresh question: Do yorick's ghouls award souls?
2nd Random question: Now that Bischu is a sub for TBC, who is FXO trying/using for middle (unless navi is back, in which case who is now jungling)?
I don't think Bischu playing for FXO and being sub for TBC are conflicting. That being said I don't know if it is the case.
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United States47024 Posts
So, to be competitive you need to be full time player, and to be a full time player you need money, since there is no structure in place for talented players who want to go pro in NA. There are no gaming houses for just general players or amateur players, and to go to a gaming house is a HUGE investment seeing as you have to quit every other non-gaming thing, and move (often times) very far away. Compare this to something like asia where the infrastructure is closer, its more established as a profession, its still risky but not as much of a "wtf? is this really stable?" type thing, and it is simply less money to do so.
You're looking at the end result of Asian e-sports, not the long road it took to get there.
Coach Cho had to feed GO Team out of his own pocket before they became CJ. 2009 formed FtD by taking out his entire life savings when he was in college. DREAM couldn't even afford sitting tickets on the train to Beijing for their first LAN tournament. Asian E-sports grew out of the blood, sweat, and tears of the players and organizers that were there from the beginning. There was no streaming as an easy out to make money. I guarantee you it was 10x worse for any of those players who were playing to turn BW/DotA/whatever into the powerhouses that make Asian E-sports possible today. Nobody on NA remotely has ever had to go through those hardships.
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On January 25 2013 10:22 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +
So, to be competitive you need to be full time player, and to be a full time player you need money, since there is no structure in place for talented players who want to go pro in NA. There are no gaming houses for just general players or amateur players, and to go to a gaming house is a HUGE investment seeing as you have to quit every other non-gaming thing, and move (often times) very far away. Compare this to something like asia where the infrastructure is closer, its more established as a profession, its still risky but not as much of a "wtf? is this really stable?" type thing, and it is simply less money to do so.
You're looking at the end result of Asian e-sports, not the long road it took to get there. Coach Cho had to feed GO Team out of his own pocket before they became CJ. 2009 formed FtD by taking out his entire life savings when he was in college. DREAM couldn't even afford sitting tickets on the train to Beijing for their first LAN tournament. Asian E-sports grew out of the blood, sweat, and tears of the players and organizers that were there from the beginning. There was no streaming as an easy out to make money. I guarantee you it was 10x worse for any of those players who were playing to turn BW/DotA/whatever into the powerhouses that make Asian E-sports possible today. Nobody on NA remotely has ever had to go through those hardships.
i dont disagree with this, im not talking about it in general terms, im talking about how it is now, the sharp rise of korean/asian teams only months after the game was released on their servers. when you see teams who have only been together for <1 month get a sponsor and a gaming house, this is vastly different than any NA experience. I agree that NA scene has to develop just like you said the asian scene developed (and we see this story similarly when you think about say Mono's manager who took out a personal loan to finance his team to IPL4 [who is now ggu]). But to say the asian scene is the same as the NA scene today, its the same amount of finance and risk and etc, is silly 
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I would like to go on a philosophical rant about mentiality and culture now, bad metaphors included. But I won't.
Bottom line, as long as nobody pours the same amount of effort into development of NA/EU scenes, they won't get an infrastructure like kor/ch
That shit didn't come from nowhere. And asking for it to come out of nowhere is silly. No matter how much we'd like it to.
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EPT
