EPT[Patch 1.0.0.154: Preseason Balance Update 2] GD - Page 126
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Ethelis
United States2397 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Navi
5286 Posts
On January 25 2013 10:27 spellsy wrote: i dont disagree with this, im not talking about it in general terms, im talking about how it is now, the sharp rise of korean/asian teams only months after the game was released on their servers. when you see teams who have only been together for <1 month get a sponsor and a gaming house, this is vastly different than any NA experience. I agree that NA scene has to develop just like you said the asian scene developed (and we see this story similarly when you think about say Mono's manager who took out a personal loan to finance his team to IPL4 [who is now ggu]). But to say the asian scene is the same as the NA scene today, its the same amount of finance and risk and etc, is silly  and he did not say it. to go on the path to your dreams there are risks that must be taken. if people have walked that path in the past (chinese dota, BW in korea) then the path is paved and is more clear how to follow your predecessors. but to look at the end result and complain about the differences, again, while not untrue, doesn't do jack shit. | ||
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
On January 25 2013 10:39 zulu_nation8 wrote: and i think riot has helped the NA scene far more than any other regions. Well, yes. But we have become somewhat dependant on Riot and thus haven't really done much ourselves. Korea grew by itself. | ||
Chexx
Korea (South)11232 Posts
On January 25 2013 10:37 Dandel Ion wrote: I would like to go on a philosophical rant about mentiality and culture now, bad metaphors included. But I won't. Bottom line, as long as nobody pours the same amount of effort into development of NA/EU scenes, they won't get an infrastructure like kor/ch That shit didn't come from nowhere. And asking for it to come out of nowhere is silly. No matter how much we'd like it to. Lucky for NA Teams Riot pours a huge amount into the development which will be good in the long run. I am still waiting for my LoL Champions league with all international top teams | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On January 25 2013 10:27 spellsy wrote: i dont disagree with this, im not talking about it in general terms, im talking about how it is now, the sharp rise of korean/asian teams only months after the game was released on their servers. when you see teams who have only been together for <1 month get a sponsor and a gaming house, this is vastly different than any NA experience. I agree that NA scene has to develop just like you said the asian scene developed (and we see this story similarly when you think about say Mono's manager who took out a personal loan to finance his team to IPL4 [who is now ggu]). But to say the asian scene is the same as the NA scene today, its the same amount of finance and risk and etc, is silly Well. Curse did the first smart thing: Moving to Vegas instead of California. They are probably saving $100k/year at least by doing that. Living in NY/Cali is just so expensive compared to the rest of the USA, NA teams would be better off if they could "agree" to create a hub in a low cost state like Nevada, Texas, etc. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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spellsy
United States418 Posts
On January 25 2013 10:40 Navi wrote: and he did not say it. to go on the path to your dreams there are risks that must be taken. if people have walked that path in the past (chinese dota, BW in korea) then the path is paved and is more clear how to follow your predecessors. but to look at the end result and complain about the differences, again, while not untrue, doesn't do jack shit. nothing of any of this does honest "jack shit", if we think that we are fooling ourselves lol. we are just a bunch of viewers, and this is just some drama discussion for funsies. i dont think there has ever been a productive "why NA scene < asia scene" discussion ever, even if it was between regi / hsgg / odee or something, still probably would be unproductive. people just like to talk about stuff, its just entertainment ! | ||
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Irave
United States9965 Posts
On January 25 2013 10:46 OutlaW- wrote: Well, yes. But we have become somewhat dependant on Riot and thus haven't really done much ourselves. Korea grew by itself. Well yea, we have no choice. Its been years and nobody else has stepped up to do so. Aspiring pros, can only be paid in mouse pads for so long, before they decide college would be a better option. If only we could convince the 500+ million people in the US that don't know what LoL is, that it would be a worthy investment to help with the money. We could possibly get the Verizon, Chase sponsors. Until then, gaming is back burner, small. Only discussed on the news for promoting violence. | ||
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Chexx
Korea (South)11232 Posts
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
On January 25 2013 11:03 Chexx wrote: It all starts with promoting it to new people, but the community is not really nice to newcomers. It is this wierd elitism in computer games which I dont understand. this -_-. tl understands the game | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
On January 25 2013 10:56 spellsy wrote: nothing of any of this does honest "jack shit", if we think that we are fooling ourselves lol. we are just a bunch of viewers, and this is just some drama discussion for funsies. i dont think there has ever been a productive "why NA scene < asia scene" discussion ever, even if it was between regi / hsgg / odee or something, still probably would be unproductive. people just like to talk about stuff, its just entertainment ! if people with interest who are intelligent and willing to commit time and their efforts and yes, even their money and livelihood, then there can be progress as with any other field or path in life. but if there's the mentality that "no we can't do anything, they'll be better, we're just viewers and talk for funs" then no shit nothing will get done. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
i was pretty shocked by what i saw of the "managers" in LA. missing matches due to oversleeping, drinking all night (guilty!), not enforcing curfew on their players, not pushing their players to try hard, not giving pep talks or dealing with crises in the end, the only really professional manager there was liquid from curse. but it's hard to blame the managers themselves. for the mostpart the players pick their managers, it's only in rare cases that managers put together the teams. case in point, liquid has control over curse's roster. so since he's not at the team's whim, he's able to enforce rules on them. on the other hand, someone like gnomesayin from FeaR is at the mercy of her players. so while she may WANT certain things from her team, if the team doesn't like it she can't push it because they'll just say "fuck you" and get a new manager. in the end the problem is money, like spellsy said. the CORRECT way to go about this is 1. organization makes money separately from League 2. organization hires a manager to make a team for League 3. manager hires a coach/talent scout 4. manager/coach find a team of 5 5. the players are under contract to the organization in such a fashion the players don't get to call the shots, and if they fuck up or show bad attitudes, they get cut and more worthy players get to play. as it stands now it's 1. players get lucky and find other players they play well with OR 1. players pour blood sweat and tears into creating a team (i've seen both) 2. one player gets worn out from doing all the management as well as playing 3. the team "hires" a "manager" who is really just a friend that they offload some bitch work onto 4. an organization approaches the team after they find success in this fashion, the team has total control because the manager doesn't do shit (like in most NA teams) and the organization didn't HELP the team get to where they are. i think/hope the riot system will help it turn around a bit tho also the money-grabby attitude of most NA teams doesn't help either. most teams want instant payout instead of an investment. case in point, 2 teams cancelled on scrims for tonight because we asked them not to stream. like the 150 viewers is gonna make you any money -_-. so now 2 teams lose out on a 2 hour scrim so 1 team can dick around on stream. both teams are not getting better because of it. WE'LL NEVER CATCH ASIA AT THIS RATE | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
Edit: Curse has put together an amateur team. Pretty solid line-up actually, xPobelter, IWDominate, AItec, YoDaTV, and Crs Rhux. Pobelter back on Curse, technically lol. | ||
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spellsy
United States418 Posts
On January 25 2013 11:10 Navi wrote: if people with interest who are intelligent and willing to commit time and their efforts and yes, even their money and livelihood, then there can be progress as with any other field or path in life. but if there's the mentality that "no we can't do anything, they'll be better, we're just viewers and talk for funs" then no shit nothing will get done. there was 1 difference in how it seems you have interpreted my post. im not saying that we the people cant do anything, im saying that discussing this doesn't do anything. I have been witness to over a dozen of this "what do we change in NA, why is NA so bad, what can we do to get better" discussions, and there is no change that is ever brought together after one of these discussions (it used to happen every other day in the manager chat that was previously brought up). Im not saying that PEOPLE cant do anything, we can all do stuff the possibilities are endless, its what does this ACTION (discussing) do. i say this in relation to your other post which said like "complaining about it doesnt do anything", to which i am saying even "brainstorming" or looking for solutions or etc doesnt do anything either. this kind of talk is all equally useless, its about actions. its not like someones like "ohh. i was on the fence about investing this million dollars into a new esports company which gives routes for NA players to train and go pro as if it was a job, but after reading this discussion on TL, im CONVINCED!" nor even small steps like pro players starting to be more disciplined or something. these changes dont spark out of abstract discussions in obscure (sry if i offend) places, it something that needs to be sparked in the players themselves and takes time to develop personally. Everyone knows what they should do, its a question of doing it. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14076 Posts
On January 25 2013 10:46 OutlaW- wrote: Well, yes. But we have become somewhat dependant on Riot and thus haven't really done much ourselves. Korea grew by itself. Korea didn't just grow by itself. They already had the culture and the faith of sponsors to invest in them from BW. And riot hired Nada to appear in its launch ads. Thats like Getting john madden to come out in a launch campaign for football based video games. Its gona make a huge difference. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On January 25 2013 11:35 Sermokala wrote: Korea didn't just grow by itself. They already had the culture and the faith of sponsors to invest in them from BW. And riot hired Nada to appear in its launch ads. Thats like Getting john madden to come out in a launch campaign for football based video games. Its gona make a huge difference. And where did BW culture come from? You gotta start somewhere. And korea went and started - they done with that already. Same with china. | ||
MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On January 25 2013 11:10 Navi wrote: if people with interest who are intelligent and willing to commit time and their efforts and yes, even their money and livelihood, then there can be progress as with any other field or path in life. but if there's the mentality that "no we can't do anything, they'll be better, we're just viewers and talk for funs" then no shit nothing will get done. This is going slightly on a tangent, but I remember one day some of the LoL Staff decided that making LR Threads wasn't enough for us. We knew there was so much that could be written about League of Legends yet no one seemed to be able to do it. Sitting around and feeling sorry for ourselves wasn't going to help. So we took it upon ourselves to just go write something. It started off humble with MLG Anaheim in June. But then not long after we suddenly realised what we were actually capable of. At the start, it seemed like it would never work. We'd write a couple of cute stuff, thing would die down and maybe we'd have to abandon it. Privately, I wasn't even confident anything I tried would mean anything. I didn't even play Ranked; I was an unrated scrub. Even now there's few little properly written LoL theory to draw upon and I had very little to use as references. But I felt I had to at least try. And when you try, you go all out. Come across a wall that's stopping you? Don't complain and whine. If there's no door, then make your own door. Spellsy has a point about some of the things working against the NA region. Blocking them like an invisible wall. But fk that wall. There's so many things working in favour of the NA region too. Make your own door. As an aside, practise means nothing if you get nothing out of it. I could spend hours writing tens of thousands of words but if I write nothing of importance I've wasted my time. The same goes for practise in anything else. Reading your textbook for hours on end is revising, but if you learnt nothing it's still a waste of your time. Smarter practise, not more generic practise. | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
On January 25 2013 11:34 spellsy wrote: there was 1 difference in how it seems you have interpreted my post. im not saying that we the people cant do anything, im saying that discussing this doesn't do anything. I have been witness to over a dozen of this "what do we change in NA, why is NA so bad, what can we do to get better" discussions, and there is no change that is ever brought together after one of these discussions (it used to happen every other day in the manager chat that was previously brought up). Im not saying that PEOPLE cant do anything, we can all do stuff the possibilities are endless, its what does this ACTION (discussing) do. i say this in relation to your other post which said like "complaining about it doesnt do anything", to which i am saying even "brainstorming" or looking for solutions or etc doesnt do anything either. this kind of talk is all equally useless, its about actions. its not like someones like "ohh. i was on the fence about investing this million dollars into a new esports company which gives routes for NA players to train and go pro as if it was a job, but after reading this discussion on TL, im CONVINCED!" nor even small steps like pro players starting to be more disciplined or something. these changes dont spark out of abstract discussions in obscure (sry if i offend) places, it something that needs to be sparked in the players themselves and takes time to develop personally. Everyone knows what they should do, its a question of doing it. Obviously not. No one should talk about anything and no one should do anything sums up your opinion on how the NA scene should develop. edit: MoonBear put it much more...ah...articulately. | ||
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lilwisper
United States2515 Posts
On January 25 2013 11:25 onlywonderboy wrote: I know a lot of people worry that the LCS is going to stagnate the NA scene but I really hope the opposite is true. Before the LCS when there were sporadic tournaments teams would have downtime after one event and ramp up their practice closer to the next event. My hope is that with weekly matches teams will stick to a regular practice schedule and not take as many breaks. I don't even need all of the NA scene to be on the level of KR, two would make me happy, but hell I'd take one. Edit: Curse has put together an amateur team. Pretty solid line-up actually, xPobelter, IWDominate, AItec, YoDaTV, and Crs Rhux. Pobelter back on Curse, technically lol. I have followed a few game scenes here and there and I have noticed it's not so much having more tournaments that makes the level of a scene grow. I usually see a general growth when the practice/in between tournaments actions become more available and focused. | ||
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