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o wow ;( That's unfortunate. I miss all the events you used to run(esv, iccup.tv stuff n what). Was always fun playing in the Iccup.tv league and iccup koths. Hope things go well for you and ESV. You've been around the scene since the start of the beta (atleast). Thanks for the quick response Diamond.
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On January 25 2013 09:01 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 08:58 Numy wrote:
MRN drafting makes me laugh. Guess they just starting their journey. What do you criticize?
Oh it's just how disorganized it is. No one really taking charge as to final say or clear gameplan in mind. Just kind of on the fly. Could also be the relatively short drafting phase League has, no 40 seconds to run down debating after you know bans while having extra 1:30 in bank. It's just so chaotic lol
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On January 25 2013 08:37 Roffles wrote:
Bly, you just described why NA sucks.
If the farm system sucks, you ain't gonna be bringing new talent into the big leagues. That's why NA recycles used trash over and over instead of developing new players and new teams. Some "top" tier NA teams refuse to scrim each other because of who knows what, and they're too busy fucking around in trolo q instead of actually practicing. It's as if people don't care.
Azubu Frost needed a top laner, so they went and got some guy no one had heard of. After months of training, he turned out to be a beast. Caomei was a pile of shit at S2 championships for WE, and by the time IPL5 came around, he was a monster. But in the NA scene you have a bunch of people tossing around used goods like Polaroid instant cameras as if they're still good now.
No player development, Americans are fuckin lazy, and too much satisfaction from streaming that cuts into any desire to actually get good at the game and win something. Perennial losers, and until something changes in terms of how NA approaches the scene, they'll always be losers.
I think this was the key statement pre s3. Now though, not so much. The NA scene just went from CLG/TSM/Dig/Curse to a major list of others. Where is the recycled trash, when the entire EPIK roster remains teamless struggling to either find a team or rebuild. A benching from CLG shouldn't be branded a trash label either. Since they are always bouncing their roster around, making improvements to become the best. Them picking up Aphro made the most sense as well. Aphro already showed he was an incredible player, who had the desire to play support. The only other person that looked like they had a chance, is playing ADC for TBC.
The top teams in the past wouldn't frequently scrim each other in the past sure. Why because they were likely candidates to meet each other in the the only tournaments going on at the time. So they could afford to work on strats, watch vods, and practice single champions and survive. Hell even TSM is already scrimming in preparation for S3.
Add in the awesome incentive of all this amateur stuff and you will slowly realize the NA scene is on the rise. You can chalk up streaming and profiting a bit as laziness but there was no incentive like this before.
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United States47024 Posts
Even if they didn't change the actual format, bonus time seems like it would actually be a good addition to tournament draft in LoL.
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On January 25 2013 08:15 remedium wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 06:19 Alaric wrote:7th rune page and 8th mastery page (oh, he got a name change it seems). He's using a "classic" AS/AD runepage, no idea why the 4 ArPen (I guess most jungle monsters have 4 armour, never bothered to check, I just know buffs have 10), and offensive masteries because his goal is usually to snowball the game early so he looks at being able to deal the most damage possible for early kills (at least that's my reasoning). He goes machete+5 -> boots -> brutalizer -> finish boots around then if he gets tabi -> pickaxe -> Lizard spirit -> finish boots around there if mercs. He usually goes this way (from most fed to not fed): BT -> lizard spirit -> BC. His defensive item is always a warmogs (he'll complete BC after his first big item if he keeps getting fed/farmed). He went for randuin's/BC/mallet (can't remember his other 2 items, boots were homeguard tabi) the only game where I saw him behind. Skill order is WEQ R>E>Q>W Xj9 always goes damage by default. The math in this guide says R>Q>E>W. Is it wrong? I started going QWE R>Q>E>W after reading it, and I like it a lot more. The cooldown on the Q at higher levels gives you so much more utility, it's outrageous. I don't jungle her though.
Well he's definitely wrong about the numbers... as per most guides. The Q shouldn't be allowed to be used twice in 7 seconds and he gives it a higher rank than is possible at level 8.
His numbers for the abilities are all wrong.
He has to charge for 1.25 seconds without attacking if he's dueling with Q so Q is downright worse for dueling right there. Both skills suck for dueling as E needs you to store charges, but what else are you going to max? W? LOL
He assumes 80 base damage when at level 8 it's definitely 83.
E scales better with AD for those short fights where you won't get another cooldown.
He chooses time periods (7 seconds, where his Q is (not really) off cooldown but E just doesn't make it...) which is really manipulative.
Overall though he's probably right that at that stage in the game Q will have done more damage from 10 seconds on if you were chasing. Though tbh Vi sucks at prolonged chases because she has no slows lol and no one builds slows on her.
There will be situations where E will be better, eg, Q you never want to lead ganks with Q, so your ally may die in the time you need to charge up burst or E, or they'll flash and dodge your Q. You'll counterjungle or clear your own jungle and use your Q to do it faster and then die because you blew your escape. E will hit more champions in a teamfight, in clearing jungle, etc...
Just try both out.
There are still games as jungle Jax where I like the dueling power of W over the chasing power of Q.
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United States37500 Posts
On January 25 2013 09:03 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 09:01 NeoIllusions wrote:On January 25 2013 08:58 Numy wrote:
MRN drafting makes me laugh. Guess they just starting their journey. What do you criticize? Oh it's just how disorganized it is. No one really taking charge as to final say or clear gameplan in mind. Just kind of on the fly. Could also be the relatively short drafting phase League has, no 40 seconds to run down debating after you know bans while having extra 1:30 in bank. It's just so chaotic lol
lolol, oh ok. I thought you didn't like their picks or something. XD
Muted stream > me
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On January 25 2013 09:06 TheYango wrote:
Even if they didn't change the actual format, bonus time seems like it would actually be a good addition to tournament draft in LoL.
Yea I just realised how much of a difference it makes. Started scrimming again then watching MRN scrim having that extra time is huge. Can discuss whole gameplan with that when you know what your picks are already.
On January 25 2013 09:07 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 09:03 Numy wrote:On January 25 2013 09:01 NeoIllusions wrote:On January 25 2013 08:58 Numy wrote:
MRN drafting makes me laugh. Guess they just starting their journey. What do you criticize? Oh it's just how disorganized it is. No one really taking charge as to final say or clear gameplan in mind. Just kind of on the fly. Could also be the relatively short drafting phase League has, no 40 seconds to run down debating after you know bans while having extra 1:30 in bank. It's just so chaotic lol lolol, oh ok. I thought you didn't like their picks or something. XD Muted stream > me
No no I'm not knowledgable enough about league to know drafts unless they blatant outdrafting  . Just know the team elements
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Why people don't play Shyvana anymore ? I know that resists got nerfed but wouldn't she do good in league of warmogs ?
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United States47024 Posts
On January 25 2013 09:08 Numy wrote:No no I'm not knowledgable enough about league to know drafts unless they blatant outdrafting . Just know the team elements
Honestly if you're coming from DotA, a lot of the generalities are more similar than you might think.
It's true that the more nuanced stuff is hard to carry over. But the basics of what make a good teamcomp are all there.
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On January 25 2013 08:57 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 08:56 Seuss wrote:
It reminds me of the job market. Every job posting requires at least three years of experience. Where are people supposed to get three years of experience?
If I wasn't some old man with a full-time job and commitments, I'd be setting out to prove TheYango's point about work ethic and mindset. Fuck it. Baylife bro. Gotta go for it. Better now than never.
If you can find me another 80 hours in the week I will. 
On January 25 2013 09:10 Lylat wrote:
Why people don't play Shyvana anymore ? I know that resists got nerfed but wouldn't she do good in league of warmogs ?
Her jungling is absolutely wretched now.
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I still think people focus on laning way too much when making their picks and only create super obvious strats like MF Amumu. The drafting in dota felt like in another whole new level. That might be because it was around much longer, because of the way the game is designed or because of pioneers like puppey, but I think so nonetheless.
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Vi is so fun I love her Neon Strike skin especially because it reminds me of Franky from One piece.
Good night ladies, see you tomorrow for EU LCS Q
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On January 25 2013 09:10 Lylat wrote:
Why people don't play Shyvana anymore ? I know that resists got nerfed but wouldn't she do good in league of warmogs ?
She has no cc, even soft cc. She doesn't move particularly fast, and you don't need damage on a jungler. No one ever played her except for SV, and curse lost most of their games. Except for some people who liked her, she was never a good jungler. M5 runs the train on TSM once and people thought it was the champion.
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On January 25 2013 09:12 OutlaW- wrote:
I still think people focus on laning way too much when making their picks and only create super obvious strats like MF Amumu. The drafting in dota felt like in another whole new level. That might be because it was around much longer, because of the way the game is designed or because of pioneers like puppey, but I think so nonetheless.
Well the pro scene in league has followed similar movements as dota did I think(Yango can clarify). Stuff like farm priority and supports getting farm. Towers becoming more important than just farming. The lower end dota drafting also falls into laning trap but the lanes are just different. The safe trilane - solo mid - solo offlane is something teams will do religiously without really exploring benefits or reasoning behind it. The top end sure there's a lot of subtle things that go on. I think the same can be said in league though. The Asian teams(And M5) seem to understand team comps a lot more and focus on that instead of pure laning.
The system also helps obviously but it's not the only factor at play. Having the ability to remove things mid draft adds another dimension. In fact the recent change of 2 bans then 3 was freaking huge too, such small changes effects drafting so much. Then as we spoke about earlier bonus time is quite big too. Every pick I think is 40 seconds(I actually haven't paid attention lol) and you get 1:30 bonus time in total. So effectively if you know what you want to ban you go around 2 minutes to just chat about the overall gameplan you want and what enemy can do. Obviously using up all your bonus time at the start then getting corner in draft later could screw you
Even with all this you still see similar ideas/drafts all the time. The whole Luna vs Sven teams came up for a whole tournament. Then the bounty hunter offlane was the shit. LGD's solo Luna with aggressive tri every game. It just looks different but a lot of the same stuff happens.
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Forgot how smooth and sultry Guardsman bob's voice was. What elo is he usually at?
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On January 25 2013 09:07 obesechicken13 wrote:
Overall though he's probably right that at that stage in the game Q will have done more damage from 10 seconds on if you were chasing. Though tbh Vi sucks at prolonged chases because she has no slows lol and no one builds slows on her.
If you read the posts there you'd see we've been advocating an early phage on her for tankiness+stickiness all the while. It's just in soloQ people stack AD on her (I don't understand how her E ratio can make her burst stuff so fast though, and I really should do the math to find out if W likes ArPen or AD more).
Also predicting Science Vessel. Snap, should have sticked to Valkyrie. 
Haha, the team MRN's against tried to use Thresh's lantern to save Elise, but AtomicN on Alistar said "No." and headbutted her through a wall.
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On January 25 2013 09:12 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 09:10 Lylat wrote:
Why people don't play Shyvana anymore ? I know that resists got nerfed but wouldn't she do good in league of warmogs ? Her jungling is absolutely wretched now.
Seriously, its like Mundo-ish first clear on your HP, but without the speed.
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On January 25 2013 09:20 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 09:12 OutlaW- wrote:
I still think people focus on laning way too much when making their picks and only create super obvious strats like MF Amumu. The drafting in dota felt like in another whole new level. That might be because it was around much longer, because of the way the game is designed or because of pioneers like puppey, but I think so nonetheless. Well the pro scene in league has followed similar movements as dota did I think(Yango can clarify). Stuff like farm priority and supports getting farm. Towers becoming more important than just farming. The lower end dota drafting also falls into laning trap but the lanes are just different. The safe trilane - solo mid - solo offlane is something teams will do religiously without really exploring benefits or reasoning behind it. The top end sure there's a lot of subtle things that go on. I think the same can be said in league though. The Asian teams(And M5) seem to understand team comps a lot more and focus on that instead of pure laning. The system also helps obviously but it's not the only factor at play. Having the ability to remove things mid draft adds another dimension. In fact the recent change of 2 bans then 3 was freaking huge too, such small changes effects drafting so much. Then as we spoke about earlier bonus time is quite big too. Every pick I think is 40 seconds(I actually haven't paid attention lol) and you get 1:30 bonus time in total. So effectively if you know what you want to ban you go around 2 minutes to just chat about the overall gameplan you want and what enemy can do. Obviously using up all your bonus time at the start then getting corner in draft later could screw you
How can you not mention fries.eu in picking beyond lanes XD?
Also(I think I'm in the minority here) but people are really overrating drafting phase of the game.Yes it's important but if you just use your picks correctly,pick general champs that work well together and simply have a good strategy of how to use your picks-if you are better you SHOULD win.Honestly most losses in league currently I've seen in pro games have been due to outplays.If it's due to picks they just don't have good synergy or the players don't have the correct mindset on how to play the champ or the style of the comp.
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Strategy is part of the draft phase. Picking champs is only a means to a strategy. I think that's the disconnect, you think of draft as purely what you pick not the strategy you implementing. Fries.eu is weird, they do counter-intuitive drafts I feel. Like play late game without a late game team but win late game vs a more late game team. Doesn't make sense man
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Shyvana is great at low levels because her ult is big and scary. My team was poking the enemy at their tower, and Shyvana just ults in with no warning, and we have to follow up or lose. Of course they blew everything on the HUGE DRAGON and we cleaned up. If it freaked us out I don't know what they were thinking.
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EPT
