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On January 25 2013 00:15 Argoth. wrote:
I would say the biggest problem for carry junglers in Riot's sense (farm jungle all day, carry late game) is idiotic lane players. When you don't gank, they lose the lane. This is especially problematic for toplane. Having this constant disadvantage during the laning phase and the inability to play defensively really sets jungler like Tryndamere back. But maybe this is only the case for my low lvl of play....
But the "farm all day" tactic, isn't viable in Arranged 5s play, or at least its not done. You see a Dr. Mundo (arguably the best farmer in the game), or Olaf who is behind the support in levels because he has spent so much time ganking, counterganking, and setting up dives.
The only jungler who ever even arguably tries to do that is Shen, because of his ult, and then he transitions into a decently farmed character later because of the power of splitpushing (which gives you decent farm).
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On January 25 2013 06:12 AsnSensation wrote:
can the regular Xj9 watchers tell me his runes/masteries on Vi and if he has a go to build?
Don't know if 21/9 or 9/21 is better and even more unsure about build, probably sth like madred's, sunfire, frozen mallet? or is he going straight dmg, like bt, bc etc.
2 games 2 wins in ranked so far, no time to try her in normals ^^
He runs her 21/9. Armor yellows, AD Quints, MR/lvl glyphs his red 6 AS, with 3 Armor Pen. Typically always see him get a bruta/bt/warmog. The rest just situational.
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7th rune page and 8th mastery page (oh, he got a name change it seems).
He's using a "classic" AS/AD runepage, no idea why the 4 ArPen (I guess most jungle monsters have 4 armour, never bothered to check, I just know buffs have 10), and offensive masteries because his goal is usually to snowball the game early so he looks at being able to deal the most damage possible for early kills (at least that's my reasoning).
He goes machete+5 -> boots -> brutalizer -> finish boots around then if he gets tabi -> pickaxe -> Lizard spirit -> finish boots around there if mercs.
He usually goes this way (from most fed to not fed): BT -> lizard spirit -> BC. His defensive item is always a warmogs (he'll complete BC after his first big item if he keeps getting fed/farmed).
He went for randuin's/BC/mallet (can't remember his other 2 items, boots were homeguard tabi) the only game where I saw him behind.
Skill order is WEQ R>E>Q>W
Xj9 always goes damage by default.
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On January 25 2013 06:19 Alaric wrote:7th rune page and 8th mastery page (oh, he got a name change it seems). He's using a "classic" AS/AD runepage, no idea why the 4 ArPen (I guess most jungle monsters have 4 armour, never bothered to check, I just know buffs have 10), and offensive masteries because his goal is usually to snowball the game early so he looks at being able to deal the most damage possible for early kills (at least that's my reasoning). He goes machete+5 -> boots -> brutalizer -> finish boots around then if he gets tabi -> pickaxe -> Lizard spirit -> finish boots around there if mercs. He usually goes this way (from most fed to not fed): BT -> lizard spirit -> BC. His defensive item is always a warmogs (he'll complete BC after his first big item if he keeps getting fed/farmed). He went for randuin's/BC/mallet (can't remember his other 2 items, boots were homeguard tabi) the only game where I saw him behind. Skill order is WEQ R>E>Q>W Xj9 always goes damage by default.
Just his smurf.
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So I just heard about the Team Solo Mebdi ban from competitive LoL.
From what I've read they had it coming, but how are the players really that toxic, high-elo EUW people here?
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
I know some of them reported Enten every game even though he didn't do anything, just because they disliked him somehow. That led to a few unjust bans on Enten because punish spamming fags
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Ireland23335 Posts
Darkwinjax is probably the most ridiculously toxic player I ever played with. Darkwinjax wasn't very high elo for that reason, he was one of those guys I remember passing in elo in 2 seasons but I guess he tryharded with his new acc to qualify for s3 since I assume he plays all day to develop that attitude.
I found the humour in it. I don't think anyone who trash talks for that long takes themselves 100% seriously, but the average LoL player isnt going to have a good time playing with him but I think lifetime ban is a bit excessive
and yeah, enten is like a polite soft spoken german guy who complains sometimes but doesn't flame, him banned is just a bullshit thing that happens cause the tribunal is a shitty system but weeds out all the toxic players and some of the players who aren't but have a bad day and feed a few games or something
A LOT of the flame that happens in high elo is extremely clan x17 style tongue in cheek but they get banned anyway sometimes because only some people have the type of personality to take a joke like that.
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On January 25 2013 06:15 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 00:15 Argoth. wrote:
I would say the biggest problem for carry junglers in Riot's sense (farm jungle all day, carry late game) is idiotic lane players. When you don't gank, they lose the lane. This is especially problematic for toplane. Having this constant disadvantage during the laning phase and the inability to play defensively really sets jungler like Tryndamere back. But maybe this is only the case for my low lvl of play.... But the "farm all day" tactic, isn't viable in Arranged 5s play, or at least its not done. You see a Dr. Mundo (arguably the best farmer in the game), or Olaf who is behind the support in levels because he has spent so much time ganking, counterganking, and setting up dives. The only jungler who ever even arguably tries to do that is Shen, because of his ult, and then he transitions into a decently farmed character later because of the power of splitpushing (which gives you decent farm).
the problem with carry junglers is not the laners and especially not ganking. if riot would reward ganking more then junglers would have possibly more farm. the problem is that there is simply not enough farm in a game for 4 champions. only AD carries regularly get fully built so it does not make sense to pick item dependand junglers. The only way you are gonna do that is when you let the jungler farm after the laneing phase but then you want the jungle start to make sense and you need a top or mid who does not need more than 1-2 core items to be viable. Supportive mids&tops come to mind like zilean, yorick etc.
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Ireland23335 Posts
Ganking is already too strong. Early dives are possible meaning you CANT just farm stone golems because they can dive your top laner and have the lane snowball.
Junglers carry extremely hard, I don't get these arguments "junglers who are ahead can't do much". They can do so much with an advantage by controlling the map and bullying out the other jungler. And in teamfights you're advantage is still as useful as any gold lead. The whole "farm jungle and never gank" doesn't make much sense when you can pick a solo lane to do the same thing without losing map presence.
Increasing jungle farm significantly is the only way to make mass farming the jungle worth it over map control. And even then tryndamere and shit doesn't make sense, better to play the power farmers like mundo and shyvana (and udyr pre item changes) who preform extremely well in teamfights if they hit the unkillable critical mass, or for example riven and such.
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On January 25 2013 06:24 Irave wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 06:19 Alaric wrote:7th rune page and 8th mastery page (oh, he got a name change it seems). He's using a "classic" AS/AD runepage, no idea why the 4 ArPen (I guess most jungle monsters have 4 armour, never bothered to check, I just know buffs have 10), and offensive masteries because his goal is usually to snowball the game early so he looks at being able to deal the most damage possible for early kills (at least that's my reasoning). He goes machete+5 -> boots -> brutalizer -> finish boots around then if he gets tabi -> pickaxe -> Lizard spirit -> finish boots around there if mercs. He usually goes this way (from most fed to not fed): BT -> lizard spirit -> BC. His defensive item is always a warmogs (he'll complete BC after his first big item if he keeps getting fed/farmed). He went for randuin's/BC/mallet (can't remember his other 2 items, boots were homeguard tabi) the only game where I saw him behind. Skill order is WEQ R>E>Q>W Xj9 always goes damage by default. Just his smurf.
2383 Elo smurf. Still quite meaningful.
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On January 25 2013 06:45 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 06:24 Irave wrote:On January 25 2013 06:19 Alaric wrote:7th rune page and 8th mastery page (oh, he got a name change it seems). He's using a "classic" AS/AD runepage, no idea why the 4 ArPen (I guess most jungle monsters have 4 armour, never bothered to check, I just know buffs have 10), and offensive masteries because his goal is usually to snowball the game early so he looks at being able to deal the most damage possible for early kills (at least that's my reasoning). He goes machete+5 -> boots -> brutalizer -> finish boots around then if he gets tabi -> pickaxe -> Lizard spirit -> finish boots around there if mercs. He usually goes this way (from most fed to not fed): BT -> lizard spirit -> BC. His defensive item is always a warmogs (he'll complete BC after his first big item if he keeps getting fed/farmed). He went for randuin's/BC/mallet (can't remember his other 2 items, boots were homeguard tabi) the only game where I saw him behind. Skill order is WEQ R>E>Q>W Xj9 always goes damage by default. Just his smurf. 2383 Elo smurf. Still quite meaningful.
Well yea, there's no arguing that. But he thought it was a name change.
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On January 25 2013 06:15 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 00:15 Argoth. wrote:
I would say the biggest problem for carry junglers in Riot's sense (farm jungle all day, carry late game) is idiotic lane players. When you don't gank, they lose the lane. This is especially problematic for toplane. Having this constant disadvantage during the laning phase and the inability to play defensively really sets jungler like Tryndamere back. But maybe this is only the case for my low lvl of play.... But the "farm all day" tactic, isn't viable in Arranged 5s play, or at least its not done. You see a Dr. Mundo (arguably the best farmer in the game), or Olaf who is behind the support in levels because he has spent so much time ganking, counterganking, and setting up dives. The only jungler who ever even arguably tries to do that is Shen, because of his ult, and then he transitions into a decently farmed character later because of the power of splitpushing (which gives you decent farm).
I think it really depends on what level you're at. The lower the elo the less laners have the ability to just farm without constantly all-in'ing, which actually makes farming less profitable for your team overall. A lot of times just being around when they are trading hard is the difference between a won/lost lane. I've struggled with this concept myself because I feel like I should be able to clear a few camps before I gank every time and I find it's often better off to be skipping camps because I know players at my level are going to exchange hard constantly. But that's not always the case. You can look at a lane and figure out if they're going to be constantly all-in'ing eachother or not and act accordingly. I just know around my level at 1500 you can't farm more than 1 camp before all-ins are happening. Jungle really is a support role if you're playing it right until you get to levels that laners can consistently farm safely.
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I really have problems understanding what most of the NA managers do exactly? I've repeatedly contacted many who were looking for players or scrims and have either been ignored or treated like shit. The orb agent guy who got his team a sponsor that scammed them and have posted here before literally did not return any messages for a week straight. The manager for GGU/TD looked for scrims then rejected my offer citing that my team is too "low elo" and he'd rather go play with their 1600 ranked 5s team. There is a scrim group that I got removed from the second day because apparently my brand new team lost a scrim too fast and did not have consistent lineup, the owner of the group is the manager for One Trick Ponies who got dumped on in LCS.
Teams have the right to reject scrim offers, but to reject by citing "elo" and in a very rude manner is downright disrespectful especially considering most of these managers like, don't do anything. The only good experiences I've had have been dealing with the players themselves and guitar who is actually very professional.
I find it hilarious but also appalling that the competitive scene for NA is so xenophobic. NA is the worst region, the top teams have not won any international competitions in forever, the lower tier teams all have literally 0 accomplishments unless you count qualifying through LCS as something worthy within the international scene. I wouldn't be as bothered if teams were ran by players who are actually involved, but I have never heard of any of these managers and it really seems like they are mostly a bunch of high schoolers who wanna put shit on their resume and jerk off high elo players.
Similarlym I'm also constantly surprised at the egos of players who have competitive experience but are looking for teams. Yes I understand taking a scrim off of a team like curse is an astronomical accomplishment considering how despicable the level of competition in the NA scene is but to use that as a sort of bargaining chip or proof of talent is downright sad. Nonetheless everyone seems to love sticking with their own incest pool of washed up players with a small time twitter following, because apparently "name" is a commodity in NA LoL which tbh, is a fucking joke.
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On January 25 2013 05:30 WaveofShadow wrote:Lol that title. Too much smarts for us, Neo. (Also, I get the feeling that somehow the Reddit mods are going to catch on to us artificially getting every TL post to the front page. Even though some posts deserve it more than others anyway lolol)
From what I've seen, the r/lol mods are generally cool with asking-for-upvotes (to an extent) but if word gets to the main reddit mods then they can come down pretty harshly on offending sites
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On January 25 2013 06:48 Highwayman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 06:15 cLutZ wrote:On January 25 2013 00:15 Argoth. wrote:
I would say the biggest problem for carry junglers in Riot's sense (farm jungle all day, carry late game) is idiotic lane players. When you don't gank, they lose the lane. This is especially problematic for toplane. Having this constant disadvantage during the laning phase and the inability to play defensively really sets jungler like Tryndamere back. But maybe this is only the case for my low lvl of play.... But the "farm all day" tactic, isn't viable in Arranged 5s play, or at least its not done. You see a Dr. Mundo (arguably the best farmer in the game), or Olaf who is behind the support in levels because he has spent so much time ganking, counterganking, and setting up dives. The only jungler who ever even arguably tries to do that is Shen, because of his ult, and then he transitions into a decently farmed character later because of the power of splitpushing (which gives you decent farm). I think it really depends on what level you're at. The lower the elo the less laners have the ability to just farm without constantly all-in'ing, which actually makes farming less profitable for your team overall. A lot of times just being around when they are trading hard is the difference between a won/lost lane. I've struggled with this concept myself because I feel like I should be able to clear a few camps before I gank every time and I find it's often better off to be skipping camps because I know players at my level are going to exchange hard constantly. But that's not always the case. You can look at a lane and figure out if they're going to be constantly all-in'ing eachother or not and act accordingly. I just know around my level at 1500 you can't farm more than 1 camp before all-ins are happening. Jungle really is a support role if you're playing it right until you get to levels that laners can consistently farm safely.
At low elo I used to think that farming jungle was more profitable since it was unmissable cs and I figured lanes probably missed cs all the time, but people die too often as well so ganking was better.
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On January 25 2013 06:12 AsnSensation wrote:
can the regular Xj9 watchers tell me his runes/masteries on Vi and if he has a go to build?
Don't know if 21/9 or 9/21 is better and even more unsure about build, probably sth like madred's, sunfire, frozen mallet? or is he going straight dmg, like bt, bc etc.
2 games 2 wins in ranked so far, no time to try her in normals ^^
Other people linked runes masteries but when I watched him play today and last night he always went machete +5, ninja tabi, Bruta, pickaxe, Last whisper Vamp scepter then either BT or Warmogs
Not one game did I see him upgrade machete and I saw like 10 over the course of 2 days. He also may get Tabi before or after Brutalizer and sometimes he got BT instead of Last Whisper. I am unsure what the difference was in those games.
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Is it just me or does bot lane get tower dove almost every game now? I main adc and I get 3-4 man ganked and dove bot essentially every game and there's nothing we can do about it.
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On January 25 2013 07:21 IMoperator wrote:
Is it just me or does bot lane get tower dove almost every game now? I main adc and I get 3-4 man ganked and dove bot essentially every game and there's nothing we can do about it.
Get pissy with your support when he doesn't ward. If he still doesn't ward then ward yourself. The only way you can stop a tower dive from killing you is wards. If you see it coming all you can do is run to your second tower and wait for your mid and jungler to come.
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On January 25 2013 06:30 clickrush wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 06:15 cLutZ wrote:On January 25 2013 00:15 Argoth. wrote:
I would say the biggest problem for carry junglers in Riot's sense (farm jungle all day, carry late game) is idiotic lane players. When you don't gank, they lose the lane. This is especially problematic for toplane. Having this constant disadvantage during the laning phase and the inability to play defensively really sets jungler like Tryndamere back. But maybe this is only the case for my low lvl of play.... But the "farm all day" tactic, isn't viable in Arranged 5s play, or at least its not done. You see a Dr. Mundo (arguably the best farmer in the game), or Olaf who is behind the support in levels because he has spent so much time ganking, counterganking, and setting up dives. The only jungler who ever even arguably tries to do that is Shen, because of his ult, and then he transitions into a decently farmed character later because of the power of splitpushing (which gives you decent farm). the problem with carry junglers is not the laners and especially not ganking. if riot would reward ganking more then junglers would have possibly more farm. the problem is that there is simply not enough farm in a game for 4 champions. only AD carries regularly get fully built so it does not make sense to pick item dependand junglers. The only way you are gonna do that is when you let the jungler farm after the laneing phase but then you want the jungle start to make sense and you need a top or mid who does not need more than 1-2 core items to be viable. Supportive mids&tops come to mind like zilean, yorick etc.
Rewards ganking MORE? A successful gank in a 1v1 lane can basically end the lane depending on the matchup. A successful gank in a 2v1 lane is basically a guaranteed tower. A successful gank on a 1v2 lane pretty much nullifies the disadvantage. Even a "failed" gank in certain lanes makes it miserable.
On January 25 2013 06:48 Highwayman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 06:15 cLutZ wrote:On January 25 2013 00:15 Argoth. wrote:
I would say the biggest problem for carry junglers in Riot's sense (farm jungle all day, carry late game) is idiotic lane players. When you don't gank, they lose the lane. This is especially problematic for toplane. Having this constant disadvantage during the laning phase and the inability to play defensively really sets jungler like Tryndamere back. But maybe this is only the case for my low lvl of play.... But the "farm all day" tactic, isn't viable in Arranged 5s play, or at least its not done. You see a Dr. Mundo (arguably the best farmer in the game), or Olaf who is behind the support in levels because he has spent so much time ganking, counterganking, and setting up dives. The only jungler who ever even arguably tries to do that is Shen, because of his ult, and then he transitions into a decently farmed character later because of the power of splitpushing (which gives you decent farm). I think it really depends on what level you're at. The lower the elo the less laners have the ability to just farm without constantly all-in'ing, which actually makes farming less profitable for your team overall. A lot of times just being around when they are trading hard is the difference between a won/lost lane. I've struggled with this concept myself because I feel like I should be able to clear a few camps before I gank every time and I find it's often better off to be skipping camps because I know players at my level are going to exchange hard constantly. But that's not always the case. You can look at a lane and figure out if they're going to be constantly all-in'ing eachother or not and act accordingly. I just know around my level at 1500 you can't farm more than 1 camp before all-ins are happening. Jungle really is a support role if you're playing it right until you get to levels that laners can consistently farm safely.
Well I'm talking about pro games.
Also, no one knows really what a farmed jungler could do, because you cannot be a farmed jungler. There probably needs to be at least 1 more camp to make it viable.
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On January 25 2013 07:23 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 07:21 IMoperator wrote:
Is it just me or does bot lane get tower dove almost every game now? I main adc and I get 3-4 man ganked and dove bot essentially every game and there's nothing we can do about it. Get pissy with your support when he doesn't ward. If he still doesn't ward then ward yourself. The only way you can stop a tower dive from killing you is wards. If you see it coming all you can do is run to your second tower and wait for your mid and jungler to come.
The supports are usually decent at warding, but when stuff like pantheon skyfalling, ganking from lane and them coming from our own jungle it's really hard to defend. It feels like I'm completely helpless even under tower as an adc early, even a tanky support + adc seems like they can towerdive now. Did something change that I'm not aware of? Because I don't remember it being like this in S2.
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EPT
