EPT[Patch 1.0.0.153: Preseason Balance Update 1] GD - Page 406
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
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Vei
United States2845 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Vei
United States2845 Posts
On January 13 2013 10:05 Alaric wrote: The enemy team can see the orange puff even in the fog of war. If you don't work on your angle or timing well, they'll just see it and back off (especially if it's Q in -> your laner is supposed to bait -> they see you and don't take the bait, instead of the other way round where busied by the bait they don't see you once they're focused on the trade). ohhh shit they can!?!? i had no idea omg omg omg omg this changes everything thank you | ||
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ketchup
14521 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On January 13 2013 10:50 Vei wrote: ohhh shit they can!?!? i had no idea omg omg omg omg this changes everything thank you Gj Alaric. Also your boxes make an orange smoke too. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On January 13 2013 11:06 Alaric wrote: It's 'k, he's on the NA server, I won't have to face an additional Shaco player for this. Been seeing alot of Shaco's lately. Even more than when the season just started | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On January 13 2013 10:05 Alaric wrote: The enemy team can see the orange puff even in the fog of war. If you don't work on your angle or timing well, they'll just see it and back off (especially if it's Q in -> your laner is supposed to bait -> they see you and don't take the bait, instead of the other way round where busied by the bait they don't see you once they're focused on the trade). Timing is very important here. A lot of mid (or at least, me) have gotten used to when a Shaco gank comes, and can tell the signs from the enemy mid of when a Shaco gank is coming. This prompts them to play very passively, and thus, renders Shaco useless in mid game (assuming the rest of the team doesn't feed him either). Short Answer: If the enemy is playing like a massive pussy, it'll be very hard for you to gank him. | ||
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
Ganking mid is impossible if they play well unless you hit at blue respawn / when they ward. His boxes are really good for push comps and he gives a heavy jungle presence. + hes the only jungler i can play other than Lee Sin and Zed. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Zed's E is a ridiculous tool for dps, AoE damage on a 3s cd with a pretty good ratio. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On January 13 2013 13:16 Alaric wrote: Well if he didn't die to Jax, and instead got several of those kills off him, that would explain a lot. Zed's dps is also pretty high with his W passive, which makes him benefit more from lifesteal too, and his E probably dealt more damage than Jax's W and R (assuming ~1 AS and level 5 W) since it's physical and will benefit from Zed's penetration and AD while Jax relies mostly on AS and base damage. Zed's E is a ridiculous tool for dps, AoE damage on a 3s cd with a pretty good ratio. Other than "Zed does good DPS" IDK what you said. Zed outdueling Jax at lvl 18 is disturbing. And when I say "Duel" I mean Zed had 1/2 hp to start. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
And Zed's E, if cast on cd, basically out dps Jax assuming he gets an ult proc and an empower every 3 seconds and they're level 14 or so (not sure if it stays true at level 16, but it probably is), because it's almost the same base damage (level 5 E = level 5 Empower + level 1 ult, then ult gains 60 base damage per level) and Zed's E has a 0.8 bonus AD ratio, while Jax has AP ratios. Jax doesn't build much AP (100 would be a big number) while Zed will stack a lot of AD, while having it boosted by 25% from his level 5 W. If they start building resistances, Jax doesn't build much penetration because his split damage makes it hard to itemize, while Zed will probably build BC and/or LW, further increasing the gap between those abilities. This also means be benefits a lot more from lifesteal than Jax (and BT's part of his core, while all Jax-es don't build Gunblade or BotrK, so it depends on what that one had built), which he has in greater quantities. His autoattacks will also hurt more for the same reasons (more AD, and Armour Reduction/ArPen itemized). Jax still has Counterstrike of course, but Zed's ult can negate it in part and will do quite some damage to Jax (though he can easily ult to reduce it). In the end the amount of AS from Jax and the way they use their skills can play a part in it (esp. has Zed has no true gap closer apart from his ult), but Zed's dps should be higher than Jax once you take resistances and penetrations itemized in account, and Zed's ability to spam E every 3 seconds. Yes, Zed the "assassin" is broken like that. | ||
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
On January 13 2013 13:37 arb wrote: IamLOD all over Xj9's nuts on stream right now lol lod is such a noober i crush his team in go4lol today gg. also every game i have with him i ask why he no play tristana  | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On January 13 2013 14:26 Alaric wrote: Oh. Yeah. If you see it like that... And Zed's E, if cast on cd, basically out dps Jax assuming he gets an ult proc and an empower every 3 seconds and they're level 14 or so (not sure if it stays true at level 16, but it probably is), because it's almost the same base damage (level 5 E = level 5 Empower + level 1 ult, then ult gains 60 base damage per level) and Zed's E has a 0.8 bonus AD ratio, while Jax has AP ratios. Jax doesn't build much AP (100 would be a big number) while Zed will stack a lot of AD, while having it boosted by 25% from his level 5 W. If they start building resistances, Jax doesn't build much penetration because his split damage makes it hard to itemize, while Zed will probably build BC and/or LW, further increasing the gap between those abilities. This also means be benefits a lot more from lifesteal than Jax (and BT's part of his core, while all Jax-es don't build Gunblade or BotrK, so it depends on what that one had built), which he has in greater quantities. His autoattacks will also hurt more for the same reasons (more AD, and Armour Reduction/ArPen itemized). Jax still has Counterstrike of course, but Zed's ult can negate it in part and will do quite some damage to Jax (though he can easily ult to reduce it). In the end the amount of AS from Jax and the way they use their skills can play a part in it (esp. has Zed has no true gap closer apart from his ult), but Zed's dps should be higher than Jax once you take resistances and penetrations itemized in account, and Zed's ability to spam E every 3 seconds. Yes, Zed the "assassin" is broken like that. An ult proc every 3 seconds for Jax seems pretty slow, actually. Also, Zed DOES run out of energy using all his abilities on cooldown for mopre than a short bit. Zed's W is DEFINITELY a gapcloser though (shit, it can be used as a straight up flash - most gapclosers can't - don't see how you can say it isn't). Especially being able to WEW to slow an opponent and then jump on them. It's worth noting though that one of jax's scariest 1v1 traits -the ability to dodge and completely ignore the fuck out of you for ~3 seconds (2 sec dodge + 1 sec stun) isn't something Zed is affected by all that much. I'd want to know what items Jax was sitting on that he got outdueled - was he behind or ahead in gold? Could his build be better suited to the opponent? (I'm a bigger fan of warmogs than GA now on Jax - especially with how it works with your free resists on R-active, and GA just having the living snot nerfed out of it in many ways.) | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Of course it only works if you're both standing and right-clicking each other to death, which is why I said "the way they use their skills play a part in it". You can both make Zed "waste" energy by forcing Qs, and he can sustain longer with clever use of W since it gives back more energy than it uses at higher levels. But the opportunities to outplay are somewhat hard to account for in a dps calculation so I wanted to remain simple. (You could also easily argue that Jax uses the sheen proc better on stuff like triforce, or that randuin's is a good defensive item on Zed in general while reducing Jax's main dps stat, AS, in this particular case, for example.) | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
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1godless
United States247 Posts
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