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[Patch 1.0.0.153: Preseason Balance Update 1] GD - Page 193

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Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
December 29 2012 05:01 GMT
#3841
On December 29 2012 14:01 VirgilSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2012 13:58 Sufficiency wrote:


wooooooooooooooo

Not sure what to be more excited about...the stream....or the chair.

New chairs are pretty exciting.


Yeah I can't wait for the new chair.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21244 Posts
December 29 2012 05:07 GMT
#3842
On December 29 2012 13:48 NeoIllusions wrote:
@Cheep, wai so mean. T_T


打是疼,骂是爱~~
TranslatorBaa!
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
December 29 2012 05:13 GMT
#3843
On December 29 2012 14:07 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2012 13:48 NeoIllusions wrote:
@Cheep, wai so mean. T_T


打是疼,骂是爱~~


Depending on Neo's masochistic tendencies.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-29 05:18:15
December 29 2012 05:14 GMT
#3844
On December 29 2012 13:33 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2012 13:12 UniversalSnip wrote:
I hope TL is doing something for awesome games done quick this year, it starts on Jan 6 and the admins were all over it last time.


It will be calendar'ed and linked when it comes around. Not sure what else you had in mind =o


sorta like this

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=297572
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
Chiharu Harukaze
Profile Joined September 2011
12112 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-29 05:29:28
December 29 2012 05:26 GMT
#3845
On December 29 2012 14:13 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2012 14:07 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On December 29 2012 13:48 NeoIllusions wrote:
@Cheep, wai so mean. T_T


打是疼,骂是爱~~


Depending on Neo's masochistic tendencies.

特爱
It's like, "Is the Federation's Mobile Suit some kind of monster?"
JBright
Profile Joined September 2010
Vancouver14381 Posts
December 29 2012 05:29 GMT
#3846
On December 29 2012 14:13 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2012 14:07 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On December 29 2012 13:48 NeoIllusions wrote:
@Cheep, wai so mean. T_T


打是疼,骂是爱~~


Depending on Neo's masochistic tendencies.


He must love it since we jab at him all the time in here. Blaming Neo's ult all day when OGN stream goes down.
ModeratorThe good and the wise lead quiet lives. Neo's #1 Frenemy and nightmare.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
December 29 2012 05:32 GMT
#3847
Hahaha, sitting next to my friend as he's getting his ass kicked in ranked 5's by chauster+wodx+pobelter+ hoodstomp + magstar.
liftlift > tsm
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
December 29 2012 06:00 GMT
#3848
Ok there were some comments earlier about the new jungle, so let me post my take on it.
It's a lot of new stuff, with still massive amount of experimentation and discoveries to be made. One thing that we are pretty sure of though, is that carries out of jungle aren't very likely. And while that might disappoint us for a while, we must not let ourselves get consumed by it.
Spend too much time thinking and dreaming about what you want the game to be like and you will lose sight of the shore, get alienated and ruin your joy from the game. The true beauty of the game is discovering what it IS like and how it is to be played, however different it might be from both our expectations and dreams.
Playing to win is the most pure way of playing, the most satisfying one in the long term and the most respectable one. Be at peace with reality, and you will be at peace with yourself.
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
December 29 2012 06:11 GMT
#3849
On December 29 2012 15:00 Scip wrote:
Ok there were some comments earlier about the new jungle, so let me post my take on it.
It's a lot of new stuff, with still massive amount of experimentation and discoveries to be made. One thing that we are pretty sure of though, is that carries out of jungle aren't very likely. And while that might disappoint us for a while, we must not let ourselves get consumed by it.
Spend too much time thinking and dreaming about what you want the game to be like and you will lose sight of the shore, get alienated and ruin your joy from the game. The true beauty of the game is discovering what it IS like and how it is to be played, however different it might be from both our expectations and dreams.
Playing to win is the most pure way of playing, the most satisfying one in the long term and the most respectable one. Be at peace with reality, and you will be at peace with yourself.



What?

Neways. My problem is not that carrying out of the jungle is hard/impossible, its that tanking out of the jungle is. Like, just as an example, an Olaf that goes Black Cleaver first toplane (even with lots of trades) will be tankier than a Jungle Olaf who goes Aegis 1st.
Freeeeeeedom
Abenson
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada4122 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-29 06:31:49
December 29 2012 06:31 GMT
#3850
On December 29 2012 13:36 seRapH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2012 13:33 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On December 29 2012 13:12 UniversalSnip wrote:
I hope TL is doing something for awesome games done quick this year, it starts on Jan 6 and the admins were all over it last time.


It will be calendar'ed and linked when it comes around. Not sure what else you had in mind =o

We should speed run league


Remember the first to 100kills 1v5 bot contest?
We need to bring that back

Edit: I think the record was 14~ min by pre-nerfed MF
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-29 06:46:15
December 29 2012 06:45 GMT
#3851
On December 29 2012 15:00 Scip wrote:
Ok there were some comments earlier about the new jungle, so let me post my take on it.
It's a lot of new stuff, with still massive amount of experimentation and discoveries to be made. One thing that we are pretty sure of though, is that carries out of jungle aren't very likely. And while that might disappoint us for a while, we must not let ourselves get consumed by it.
Spend too much time thinking and dreaming about what you want the game to be like and you will lose sight of the shore, get alienated and ruin your joy from the game. The true beauty of the game is discovering what it IS like and how it is to be played, however different it might be from both our expectations and dreams.
Playing to win is the most pure way of playing, the most satisfying one in the long term and the most respectable one. Be at peace with reality, and you will be at peace with yourself.

I disagree, It's much easier to carry in jungle, obviously it's still 4th position farm majority of the time, but what we're likely to have are junglers that are more able to 1v1 the enemy carries, just in nature of duelist bruiser types, as opposed to S2 in which junglers were far more starved. Also I've noticed that junglers are holding lanes a lot harder than before, though this could be because of inexperience of new jungle, (ergo funky gank timings, lead to being slow to react to early ganks), thus leading to extensive lane holding.

The biggest issue I have with new jungle is machete; it's a 300 gold item sink. At least before if you dblade started back in S2, you could comfortably hold that into midgame, and it offered teamfight potential. Machete/Madreds, adds no teamfight str, other than armor; or at least during the build time of Wriggles you were allowed to have early game sustain with cheap lifesteal (vamp scept) I seriously feel like post madreds, you're stuck in this terrible limbo in jungle, where you're waiting for boots, cuz you need to be able to at least have a realistic chance at ganking, and then waiting for vampiric sceptre for being able to farm jungle for extended period of times. Which is like 1150 gold; which is fucking FOREVER, early on in the game.


liftlift > tsm
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-29 06:53:37
December 29 2012 06:50 GMT
#3852
I think it's amusing how Riot has gone through so much effort S1 and S2 to make sure lanes have varied item starts (nerfing Doran's S1, nerfing Boots S2), and now they've gone completely the other way and more or less designed the jungle to require Machete.

On December 29 2012 15:45 wei2coolman wrote:
The biggest issue I have with new jungle is machete; it's a 300 gold item sink. At least before if you dblade started back in S2, you could comfortably hold that into midgame, and it offered teamfight potential. Machete/Madreds, adds no teamfight str, other than armor; or at least during the build time of Wriggles you were allowed to have early game sustain with cheap lifesteal (vamp scept) I seriously feel like post madreds, you're stuck in this terrible limbo in jungle, where you're waiting for boots, cuz you need to be able to at least have a realistic chance at ganking, and then waiting for vampiric sceptre for being able to farm jungle for extended period of times. Which is like 1150 gold; which is fucking FOREVER, early on in the game.

In all honesty, I would rather have Madred's + Spirit Stone than Wriggle's right now. Especially since the passives have different names and therefore stack.
Moderator
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-29 06:56:46
December 29 2012 06:55 GMT
#3853
On December 29 2012 15:50 TheYango wrote:
I think it's amusing how Riot has gone through so much effort S1 and S2 to make sure lanes have varied item starts (nerfing Doran's S1, nerfing Boots S2), and now they've gone completely the other way and more or less designed the jungle to require Machete.

Show nested quote +
On December 29 2012 15:45 wei2coolman wrote:
The biggest issue I have with new jungle is machete; it's a 300 gold item sink. At least before if you dblade started back in S2, you could comfortably hold that into midgame, and it offered teamfight potential. Machete/Madreds, adds no teamfight str, other than armor; or at least during the build time of Wriggles you were allowed to have early game sustain with cheap lifesteal (vamp scept) I seriously feel like post madreds, you're stuck in this terrible limbo in jungle, where you're waiting for boots, cuz you need to be able to at least have a realistic chance at ganking, and then waiting for vampiric sceptre for being able to farm jungle for extended period of times. Which is like 1150 gold; which is fucking FOREVER, early on in the game.

In all honesty, I would rather have Madred's + Spirit Stone than Wriggle's right now. Especially since the passives have different names and therefore stack.

#riotlogic

They're also nerfing riven, which is beyond me, as to why they felt that was necessary >.>
should be targeting item changes not champion changes~ imo.
Should also make item for AP bruisers to start top; without dead end cloth armor, or 225 flask, that doesn't help progress build.
If Riot wants for fluid lane choices, should offer some better item builds

Spiritstone + madreds; never gank lanes ever?
liftlift > tsm
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
December 29 2012 07:13 GMT
#3854
On December 29 2012 15:55 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2012 15:50 TheYango wrote:
I think it's amusing how Riot has gone through so much effort S1 and S2 to make sure lanes have varied item starts (nerfing Doran's S1, nerfing Boots S2), and now they've gone completely the other way and more or less designed the jungle to require Machete.

On December 29 2012 15:45 wei2coolman wrote:
The biggest issue I have with new jungle is machete; it's a 300 gold item sink. At least before if you dblade started back in S2, you could comfortably hold that into midgame, and it offered teamfight potential. Machete/Madreds, adds no teamfight str, other than armor; or at least during the build time of Wriggles you were allowed to have early game sustain with cheap lifesteal (vamp scept) I seriously feel like post madreds, you're stuck in this terrible limbo in jungle, where you're waiting for boots, cuz you need to be able to at least have a realistic chance at ganking, and then waiting for vampiric sceptre for being able to farm jungle for extended period of times. Which is like 1150 gold; which is fucking FOREVER, early on in the game.

In all honesty, I would rather have Madred's + Spirit Stone than Wriggle's right now. Especially since the passives have different names and therefore stack.

#riotlogic

They're also nerfing riven, which is beyond me, as to why they felt that was necessary >.>
should be targeting item changes not champion changes~ imo.
Should also make item for AP bruisers to start top; without dead end cloth armor, or 225 flask, that doesn't help progress build.
If Riot wants for fluid lane choices, should offer some better item builds

Spiritstone + madreds; never gank lanes ever?


Morello hates Riven.

He thinks She is "Toxic". Of course, he didnt realize that Rengar was going to be totally OP and toxic, or rework eve, but u know, RIVEN, Toxic.
Freeeeeeedom
c.Deadly
Profile Joined March 2010
United States545 Posts
December 29 2012 07:13 GMT
#3855
On December 29 2012 15:31 Abenson wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2012 13:36 seRapH wrote:
On December 29 2012 13:33 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On December 29 2012 13:12 UniversalSnip wrote:
I hope TL is doing something for awesome games done quick this year, it starts on Jan 6 and the admins were all over it last time.


It will be calendar'ed and linked when it comes around. Not sure what else you had in mind =o

We should speed run league


Remember the first to 100kills 1v5 bot contest?
We need to bring that back

Edit: I think the record was 14~ min by pre-nerfed MF


Lol quick get Nony on this
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
December 29 2012 07:15 GMT
#3856
but why guys, that was EXACTLY what I was talking about. The problem with machete is a problem waiting to be solved by smart theorycrafting and extensive experience. I guess being able to indirectly change the game makes it look more viable to just stay disappointed, but it is nothing more than an illusion.
Maybe there is a way to get around the 1150 gold requirement. Maybe buying a Flask could work, or maybe altering playstyle so that you don't require madreds.
About taking from jungle, maybe you need to change your championpool a bit. Maybe Olaf isn't a good champion in jungle anymore? Who can tell just yet, but being all nyanyan that you aren't anywhere near as tanky as lane Olaf won't help you play better.

"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-29 07:31:18
December 29 2012 07:31 GMT
#3857
I don't worry that Machete is required for jungle (it's probably not, and there are possibly better alternatives for certain junglers). I worry that it was Riot's intent to make it required.
Moderator
Inschato
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada1349 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-29 07:38:31
December 29 2012 07:37 GMT
#3858
On December 29 2012 16:13 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2012 15:55 wei2coolman wrote:
On December 29 2012 15:50 TheYango wrote:
I think it's amusing how Riot has gone through so much effort S1 and S2 to make sure lanes have varied item starts (nerfing Doran's S1, nerfing Boots S2), and now they've gone completely the other way and more or less designed the jungle to require Machete.

On December 29 2012 15:45 wei2coolman wrote:
The biggest issue I have with new jungle is machete; it's a 300 gold item sink. At least before if you dblade started back in S2, you could comfortably hold that into midgame, and it offered teamfight potential. Machete/Madreds, adds no teamfight str, other than armor; or at least during the build time of Wriggles you were allowed to have early game sustain with cheap lifesteal (vamp scept) I seriously feel like post madreds, you're stuck in this terrible limbo in jungle, where you're waiting for boots, cuz you need to be able to at least have a realistic chance at ganking, and then waiting for vampiric sceptre for being able to farm jungle for extended period of times. Which is like 1150 gold; which is fucking FOREVER, early on in the game.

In all honesty, I would rather have Madred's + Spirit Stone than Wriggle's right now. Especially since the passives have different names and therefore stack.

#riotlogic

They're also nerfing riven, which is beyond me, as to why they felt that was necessary >.>
should be targeting item changes not champion changes~ imo.
Should also make item for AP bruisers to start top; without dead end cloth armor, or 225 flask, that doesn't help progress build.
If Riot wants for fluid lane choices, should offer some better item builds

Spiritstone + madreds; never gank lanes ever?


Morello hates Riven.

He thinks She is "Toxic". Of course, he didnt realize that Rengar was going to be totally OP and toxic, or rework eve, but u know, RIVEN, Toxic.


Manaless champions are toxic. I echo Morello's hate and extend it to every other champion with free abilities. I don't really hate the ones with health costs, and energy is semi-tolerable. But Riven, Garen, Tryndamere, Renekton, Katarina, Shyvana, Rengar, they're all really dumb.

Rumble is unique. But he's pretty annoying too.
3.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-29 07:40:37
December 29 2012 07:37 GMT
#3859
On December 29 2012 16:15 Scip wrote:
but why guys, that was EXACTLY what I was talking about. The problem with machete is a problem waiting to be solved by smart theorycrafting and extensive experience. I guess being able to indirectly change the game makes it look more viable to just stay disappointed, but it is nothing more than an illusion.
Maybe there is a way to get around the 1150 gold requirement. Maybe buying a Flask could work, or maybe altering playstyle so that you don't require madreds.
About taking from jungle, maybe you need to change your championpool a bit. Maybe Olaf isn't a good champion in jungle anymore? Who can tell just yet, but being all nyanyan that you aren't anywhere near as tanky as lane Olaf won't help you play better.



Maybe Olaf isn't a good jungle Champ anymore. BUT if that is true, then the point that the new jungle kinda sucks, is true. Olaf is not a support jungler, or a carry jungler. He has a fast clear speed, good sustain, and good dueling. If Olaf's jungle is not strong enough to make people feel like, "damn I really want to jungle Olaf", then who would be? And, if so, isn't the champion pool on either side of Olaf really small?

Edit

On December 29 2012 16:37 Inschato wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2012 16:13 cLutZ wrote:
On December 29 2012 15:55 wei2coolman wrote:
On December 29 2012 15:50 TheYango wrote:
I think it's amusing how Riot has gone through so much effort S1 and S2 to make sure lanes have varied item starts (nerfing Doran's S1, nerfing Boots S2), and now they've gone completely the other way and more or less designed the jungle to require Machete.

On December 29 2012 15:45 wei2coolman wrote:
The biggest issue I have with new jungle is machete; it's a 300 gold item sink. At least before if you dblade started back in S2, you could comfortably hold that into midgame, and it offered teamfight potential. Machete/Madreds, adds no teamfight str, other than armor; or at least during the build time of Wriggles you were allowed to have early game sustain with cheap lifesteal (vamp scept) I seriously feel like post madreds, you're stuck in this terrible limbo in jungle, where you're waiting for boots, cuz you need to be able to at least have a realistic chance at ganking, and then waiting for vampiric sceptre for being able to farm jungle for extended period of times. Which is like 1150 gold; which is fucking FOREVER, early on in the game.

In all honesty, I would rather have Madred's + Spirit Stone than Wriggle's right now. Especially since the passives have different names and therefore stack.

#riotlogic

They're also nerfing riven, which is beyond me, as to why they felt that was necessary >.>
should be targeting item changes not champion changes~ imo.
Should also make item for AP bruisers to start top; without dead end cloth armor, or 225 flask, that doesn't help progress build.
If Riot wants for fluid lane choices, should offer some better item builds

Spiritstone + madreds; never gank lanes ever?


Morello hates Riven.

He thinks She is "Toxic". Of course, he didnt realize that Rengar was going to be totally OP and toxic, or rework eve, but u know, RIVEN, Toxic.


Manaless champions are toxic. I echo Morello's hate and extend it to every other champion with free abilities. I don't really hate the ones with health costs, and energy is semi-tolerable. But Riven, Garen, Tryndamere, Renekton, Katarina, they're all really dumb.


Oh, I agree.

Rengar is the worst, of course, because stealth + heal + manaless. But i've hated Garen since they changed his passive to not reset vs. minions, because it makes Nunu top so bad vs. Garen.
Freeeeeeedom
Inschato
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada1349 Posts
December 29 2012 07:40 GMT
#3860
If you play Olaf Jungle you should just play it as #1 farm priority, you can clear the jungle fast enough that you'll have time to steal a lot of farm from your laners. Just ignore their bitching, get farmed, dominate.
3.
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