• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:47
CEST 17:47
KST 00:47
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou7Weekly Cups (Oct 13-19): Clem Goes for Four0BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET6Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO85.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)80
StarCraft 2
General
RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" DreamHack Open 2013 revealed The New Patch Killed Mech! Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy
Tourneys
SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 INu's Battles #13 - ByuN vs Zoun Tenacious Turtle Tussle Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $1,200 WardiTV October (Oct 21st-31st)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers
Brood War
General
Is there anyway to get a private coach? The Lose More Card BW General Discussion BSL Season 21 OGN to release AI-upscaled StarLeague from Feb 24
Tourneys
300$ 3D!Community Brood War Super Cup #4 [ASL20] Semifinal B Azhi's Colosseum - Anonymous Tournament [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
[I] TvZ Strategies and Builds [I] TvP Strategies and Build Roaring Currents ASL final Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
The Chess Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Men's Fashion Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Series you have seen recently... Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Certified Crazy
Hildegard
The Heroism of Pepe the Fro…
Peanutsc
Rocket League: Traits, Abili…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1189 users

[Patch 1.0.0.153: Preseason Balance Update 1] GD - Page 194

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 192 193 194 195 196 451 Next
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
December 29 2012 07:40 GMT
#3861
On December 29 2012 16:37 Inschato wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2012 16:13 cLutZ wrote:
On December 29 2012 15:55 wei2coolman wrote:
On December 29 2012 15:50 TheYango wrote:
I think it's amusing how Riot has gone through so much effort S1 and S2 to make sure lanes have varied item starts (nerfing Doran's S1, nerfing Boots S2), and now they've gone completely the other way and more or less designed the jungle to require Machete.

On December 29 2012 15:45 wei2coolman wrote:
The biggest issue I have with new jungle is machete; it's a 300 gold item sink. At least before if you dblade started back in S2, you could comfortably hold that into midgame, and it offered teamfight potential. Machete/Madreds, adds no teamfight str, other than armor; or at least during the build time of Wriggles you were allowed to have early game sustain with cheap lifesteal (vamp scept) I seriously feel like post madreds, you're stuck in this terrible limbo in jungle, where you're waiting for boots, cuz you need to be able to at least have a realistic chance at ganking, and then waiting for vampiric sceptre for being able to farm jungle for extended period of times. Which is like 1150 gold; which is fucking FOREVER, early on in the game.

In all honesty, I would rather have Madred's + Spirit Stone than Wriggle's right now. Especially since the passives have different names and therefore stack.

#riotlogic

They're also nerfing riven, which is beyond me, as to why they felt that was necessary >.>
should be targeting item changes not champion changes~ imo.
Should also make item for AP bruisers to start top; without dead end cloth armor, or 225 flask, that doesn't help progress build.
If Riot wants for fluid lane choices, should offer some better item builds

Spiritstone + madreds; never gank lanes ever?


Morello hates Riven.

He thinks She is "Toxic". Of course, he didnt realize that Rengar was going to be totally OP and toxic, or rework eve, but u know, RIVEN, Toxic.


Manaless champions are toxic. I echo Morello's hate and extend it to every other champion with free abilities. I don't really hate the ones with health costs, and energy is semi-tolerable. But Riven, Garen, Tryndamere, Renekton, Katarina, they're all really dumb.

to be fair most of the recent mana using champions they introduced could as well have energy bar, who the hell runs out of mana on darius ...
ninjakingcola
Profile Joined March 2011
United States405 Posts
December 29 2012 07:41 GMT
#3862
On December 29 2012 16:13 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2012 15:55 wei2coolman wrote:
On December 29 2012 15:50 TheYango wrote:
I think it's amusing how Riot has gone through so much effort S1 and S2 to make sure lanes have varied item starts (nerfing Doran's S1, nerfing Boots S2), and now they've gone completely the other way and more or less designed the jungle to require Machete.

On December 29 2012 15:45 wei2coolman wrote:
The biggest issue I have with new jungle is machete; it's a 300 gold item sink. At least before if you dblade started back in S2, you could comfortably hold that into midgame, and it offered teamfight potential. Machete/Madreds, adds no teamfight str, other than armor; or at least during the build time of Wriggles you were allowed to have early game sustain with cheap lifesteal (vamp scept) I seriously feel like post madreds, you're stuck in this terrible limbo in jungle, where you're waiting for boots, cuz you need to be able to at least have a realistic chance at ganking, and then waiting for vampiric sceptre for being able to farm jungle for extended period of times. Which is like 1150 gold; which is fucking FOREVER, early on in the game.

In all honesty, I would rather have Madred's + Spirit Stone than Wriggle's right now. Especially since the passives have different names and therefore stack.

#riotlogic

They're also nerfing riven, which is beyond me, as to why they felt that was necessary >.>
should be targeting item changes not champion changes~ imo.
Should also make item for AP bruisers to start top; without dead end cloth armor, or 225 flask, that doesn't help progress build.
If Riot wants for fluid lane choices, should offer some better item builds

Spiritstone + madreds; never gank lanes ever?


Morello hates Riven.

He thinks She is "Toxic". Of course, he didnt realize that Rengar was going to be totally OP and toxic, or rework eve, but u know, RIVEN, Toxic.


Riot couldn't balance a checkbook let alone their own damn game. I don't see why they have to mess with champions that are perfectly fine when there's obvious problem champs (Eve, Mumu, Taric, and Talon all sitting at 55% win rates) but no, RIVEN IS THE ONE THAT NEEDS THE RIOT GAMES NERF HAMMER, + Show Spoiler +
MORELLO YOU SHITBAG GET FUCKED
.
Where my demons hide? Why, if I showed you it wouldn't be a secret my dear.
Inschato
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada1349 Posts
December 29 2012 07:42 GMT
#3863
+ Shyvana, Rengar

Rumble is unique. But he's pretty annoying too.


Since you both quoted my pre-quickly-edited post and I know what happened the last time I did that ~_~
3.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
December 29 2012 07:43 GMT
#3864
On December 29 2012 16:40 kongoline wrote:
to be fair most of the recent mana using champions they introduced could as well have energy bar, who the hell runs out of mana on darius ...

That's the problem, manaless champ design more or less bled into the way they designed mana champs--top laners in particular.
Moderator
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
December 29 2012 07:49 GMT
#3865
If only they made the trade off of manaless champion more significant (with long CD), something along the lines of Garen, it wouldn't be nearly as big of an issue.
liftlift > tsm
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-29 07:52:36
December 29 2012 07:50 GMT
#3866
On December 29 2012 16:49 wei2coolman wrote:
If only they made the trade off of manaless champion more significant (with long CD), something along the lines of Garen, it wouldn't be nearly as big of an issue.

But long cooldowns aren't FUN!

I'm actually surprised they haven't designed a manaless AD carry (other than AD Kennen)--seeing as AD carry's are most in line with long-cooldown, autoattack-based gameplay, and would be the easiest to design as manaless.
Moderator
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
December 29 2012 07:51 GMT
#3867
On December 29 2012 16:49 wei2coolman wrote:
If only they made the trade off of manaless champion more significant (with long CD), something along the lines of Garen, it wouldn't be nearly as big of an issue.

The fact that Kat exists blows my mind. Here CD's are so absurdly short with no cost at all, always poke never not poke.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
December 29 2012 07:54 GMT
#3868
On December 29 2012 16:49 wei2coolman wrote:
If only they made the trade off of manaless champion more significant (with long CD), something along the lines of Garen, it wouldn't be nearly as big of an issue.

garen has long cooldowns? lol u havent played renekton then
Kaneh
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada737 Posts
December 29 2012 07:55 GMT
#3869
It's odd because i actually find it easier to get tanky out of the jungle. Harder to get like, unkillable tanky, but much, much easier to build smaller items (like locket, zeke, finishing up spirit of the ancient golem)

That's the other thing. You don't need madred's and i think you should actually skip it. 20% extra to monsters is better than random proc that usually overkills. for the price of a wriggle's you can go philo + spirit and actually be able to spam skills (and have them do 20% more), and then build them into items that actually have HP.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
December 29 2012 07:59 GMT
#3870
On December 29 2012 16:55 Kaneh wrote:
It's odd because i actually find it easier to get tanky out of the jungle. Harder to get like, unkillable tanky, but much, much easier to build smaller items (like locket, zeke, finishing up spirit of the ancient golem)

That has to do with the buildup/item design on those smaller defensive items like Locket being better, independent of how the jungle is designed.

On December 29 2012 16:55 Kaneh wrote:
That's the other thing. You don't need madred's and i think you should actually skip it. 20% extra to monsters is better than random proc that usually overkills. for the price of a wriggle's you can go philo + spirit and actually be able to spam skills (and have them do 20% more), and then build them into items that actually have HP.

Philo+Spirit is fucking awful. Nobody uses that much regen, esp since everything you'd build after that like Aegis/Locket still also gives regen.
Moderator
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-29 08:13:39
December 29 2012 08:12 GMT
#3871
On December 29 2012 16:59 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2012 16:55 Kaneh wrote:
It's odd because i actually find it easier to get tanky out of the jungle. Harder to get like, unkillable tanky, but much, much easier to build smaller items (like locket, zeke, finishing up spirit of the ancient golem)

That has to do with the buildup/item design on those smaller defensive items like Locket being better, independent of how the jungle is designed.

Show nested quote +
On December 29 2012 16:55 Kaneh wrote:
That's the other thing. You don't need madred's and i think you should actually skip it. 20% extra to monsters is better than random proc that usually overkills. for the price of a wriggle's you can go philo + spirit and actually be able to spam skills (and have them do 20% more), and then build them into items that actually have HP.

Philo+Spirit is fucking awful. Nobody uses that much regen, esp since everything you'd build after that like Aegis/Locket still also gives regen.


But having zero combat stats is pretty cool.

Rah rah! Junglers get no gold. I duinno why I feel so weak when I only ever build items that dont do damage or make me tanky.

<_<
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
December 29 2012 08:15 GMT
#3872
so whats the opinion on maltz is he worth buying or its just better to buy something like anivia/zyra for mid?
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
December 29 2012 08:18 GMT
#3873
On December 29 2012 16:54 kongoline wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2012 16:49 wei2coolman wrote:
If only they made the trade off of manaless champion more significant (with long CD), something along the lines of Garen, it wouldn't be nearly as big of an issue.

garen has long cooldowns? lol u havent played renekton then

Well, that too, I wasn't excluding him. Renekton in actually really good spot in s3 imo.

The philo changes in s3, not being able to build sustain early on; like philo in s2, makes jungle lame.
liftlift > tsm
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
December 29 2012 08:23 GMT
#3874
On December 29 2012 16:51 onlywonderboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2012 16:49 wei2coolman wrote:
If only they made the trade off of manaless champion more significant (with long CD), something along the lines of Garen, it wouldn't be nearly as big of an issue.

The fact that Kat exists blows my mind. Here CD's are so absurdly short with no cost at all, always poke never not poke.


Kat is, IMO, somewhat, how a Manaless champ needs to be designed.

She is:
1. Melle. Melle is always worse than ranged.
2. Squishy.
3. No CC.
4. Vulnerable to CC.
5. Low Damage (unless she gets the reset).
6. Mostly reset reliant.

If Rengar was Rengar with Stealth and Heal he wouldn't be hard to balance, or really that dumb.
Freeeeeeedom
Roffles *
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-29 08:32:23
December 29 2012 08:32 GMT
#3875
With the ability to kill your entire team given a reset, and can jump to just about anything.

Pretty good stuff.
God Bless
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
December 29 2012 08:33 GMT
#3876
On December 29 2012 17:23 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2012 16:51 onlywonderboy wrote:
On December 29 2012 16:49 wei2coolman wrote:
If only they made the trade off of manaless champion more significant (with long CD), something along the lines of Garen, it wouldn't be nearly as big of an issue.

The fact that Kat exists blows my mind. Here CD's are so absurdly short with no cost at all, always poke never not poke.


Kat is, IMO, somewhat, how a Manaless champ needs to be designed.

She is:
1. Melle. Melle is always worse than ranged.
2. Squishy.
3. No CC.
4. Vulnerable to CC.
5. Low Damage (unless she gets the reset).
6. Mostly reset reliant.

If Rengar was Rengar with Stealth and Heal he wouldn't be hard to balance, or really that dumb.

She can farm with Q though which can also double as free poke. Plus even if you lose lane as Kat you can just roam and pick up kills. I just really don't like the concept of low CD skills you can spam mindlessly and not be punished for it.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
ShaLLoW[baY]
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada12499 Posts
December 29 2012 08:33 GMT
#3877
On December 29 2012 11:40 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2012 11:28 Praetorial wrote:
Shake is so mannered in soloQ.

He's telling everyone to stay positive and asking people what they got for Christmas despite all the lanes feeding.


meanwhile zulu confuses people speaking french with brazilians

lol


now he's bitching out scarra on his stream

zulu for king
ALEXISONFIRE ARE FUCKING BACK (sAviOr for life)
NEOtheONE
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2233 Posts
December 29 2012 08:33 GMT
#3878
Played jungle Shyvana for the first time since the BC nerf. Felt good to bust that out again. Always a good game when you go 29 minutes without dying and successfully help out your lanes. I've also been trying out some of the assassin mids for the first time. Hard to believe I've played this game over 2 years without playing Akali or Katarina until now.

Even after playing some Katarina, I do not understand the appeal. Sure she snowballs pretty decently and farms well once she maxes W, but against a team full of CC she's pretty useless in teamfights. If she's dumb enough to flash or shunpo into the teamfight, she will just get stunned, knocked up, whichevers, and then nuked down hard. Kat needs people to be stupid so she can gank them and snowball, which works in solo queue, but that's it.

Akali on the other hand, is a lot more versatile. She can top, mid, and even jungle with the right runes. I find Akali's gameplay a lot more fun and rewarding. And she has sustain. Her farming is lackluster mid, but her sustain makes farming top okay. I just find her a lot more enjoyable than Katarina.

Eventually I'll cave in and finally purchase the few remaining mids (or mid/tops) that I do not own. Still need to pick up Fizz, Gragas, Syndra, Viktor, Talon, Galio, and Rumble.
Abstracts, the too long didn't read of the educated world.
Irave
Profile Joined October 2010
United States9965 Posts
December 29 2012 08:34 GMT
#3879
"Xin must be ghosting if he is talking about scarra needing a delay"-Twitch chat
Mondeezy
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1938 Posts
December 29 2012 08:44 GMT
#3880
J4 so fun. Learning how to dunk all day.
LoL NA: Mondeezy - TL - Riven <3
Prev 1 192 193 194 195 196 451 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
14:30
October Qualifier #2
WardiTV861
IndyStarCraft 234
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 234
LamboSC2 217
Codebar 31
sas.Sziky 18
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 43862
Calm 4616
Rain 2658
Jaedong 1826
Horang2 1215
Bisu 1089
EffOrt 638
Light 578
Mini 538
Larva 521
[ Show more ]
firebathero 518
Soma 421
Shuttle 378
ZerO 336
Stork 249
Snow 246
Free 216
actioN 213
Pusan 138
Soulkey 119
Rush 101
Hyun 101
PianO 97
TY 82
sSak 70
Killer 64
ggaemo 64
Shine 33
sorry 28
Shinee 26
Movie 24
scan(afreeca) 21
Terrorterran 19
HiyA 18
Sacsri 16
Bale 14
Noble 6
Hm[arnc] 5
Mong 1
Dota 2
Gorgc5964
qojqva3805
Dendi1177
syndereN375
BananaSlamJamma283
Fuzer 247
canceldota21
Counter-Strike
byalli255
markeloff190
FunKaTv 37
Other Games
singsing2431
hiko826
Lowko356
ceh9276
Sick213
Liquid`VortiX177
FrodaN174
Hui .125
ArmadaUGS120
Skadoodle107
KnowMe60
Mew2King59
QueenE55
Trikslyr38
ZerO(Twitch)16
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL429
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2266
League of Legends
• Jankos3547
• TFBlade831
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Monday
8h 13m
Replay Cast
18h 13m
OSC
1d
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
1d 7h
The PondCast
1d 18h
OSC
1d 20h
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
Online Event
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Snow vs Soma
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
CrankTV Team League
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.