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On December 29 2012 16:37 Inschato wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 16:13 cLutZ wrote:On December 29 2012 15:55 wei2coolman wrote:On December 29 2012 15:50 TheYango wrote:I think it's amusing how Riot has gone through so much effort S1 and S2 to make sure lanes have varied item starts (nerfing Doran's S1, nerfing Boots S2), and now they've gone completely the other way and more or less designed the jungle to require Machete. On December 29 2012 15:45 wei2coolman wrote:
The biggest issue I have with new jungle is machete; it's a 300 gold item sink. At least before if you dblade started back in S2, you could comfortably hold that into midgame, and it offered teamfight potential. Machete/Madreds, adds no teamfight str, other than armor; or at least during the build time of Wriggles you were allowed to have early game sustain with cheap lifesteal (vamp scept) I seriously feel like post madreds, you're stuck in this terrible limbo in jungle, where you're waiting for boots, cuz you need to be able to at least have a realistic chance at ganking, and then waiting for vampiric sceptre for being able to farm jungle for extended period of times. Which is like 1150 gold; which is fucking FOREVER, early on in the game.
In all honesty, I would rather have Madred's + Spirit Stone than Wriggle's right now. Especially since the passives have different names and therefore stack. #riotlogic They're also nerfing riven, which is beyond me, as to why they felt that was necessary >.> should be targeting item changes not champion changes~ imo. Should also make item for AP bruisers to start top; without dead end cloth armor, or 225 flask, that doesn't help progress build. If Riot wants for fluid lane choices, should offer some better item builds Spiritstone + madreds; never gank lanes ever? Morello hates Riven. He thinks She is "Toxic". Of course, he didnt realize that Rengar was going to be totally OP and toxic, or rework eve, but u know, RIVEN, Toxic. Manaless champions are toxic. I echo Morello's hate and extend it to every other champion with free abilities. I don't really hate the ones with health costs, and energy is semi-tolerable. But Riven, Garen, Tryndamere, Renekton, Katarina, they're all really dumb.
to be fair most of the recent mana using champions they introduced could as well have energy bar, who the hell runs out of mana on darius ...
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On December 29 2012 16:13 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 15:55 wei2coolman wrote:On December 29 2012 15:50 TheYango wrote:I think it's amusing how Riot has gone through so much effort S1 and S2 to make sure lanes have varied item starts (nerfing Doran's S1, nerfing Boots S2), and now they've gone completely the other way and more or less designed the jungle to require Machete. On December 29 2012 15:45 wei2coolman wrote:
The biggest issue I have with new jungle is machete; it's a 300 gold item sink. At least before if you dblade started back in S2, you could comfortably hold that into midgame, and it offered teamfight potential. Machete/Madreds, adds no teamfight str, other than armor; or at least during the build time of Wriggles you were allowed to have early game sustain with cheap lifesteal (vamp scept) I seriously feel like post madreds, you're stuck in this terrible limbo in jungle, where you're waiting for boots, cuz you need to be able to at least have a realistic chance at ganking, and then waiting for vampiric sceptre for being able to farm jungle for extended period of times. Which is like 1150 gold; which is fucking FOREVER, early on in the game.
In all honesty, I would rather have Madred's + Spirit Stone than Wriggle's right now. Especially since the passives have different names and therefore stack. #riotlogic They're also nerfing riven, which is beyond me, as to why they felt that was necessary >.> should be targeting item changes not champion changes~ imo. Should also make item for AP bruisers to start top; without dead end cloth armor, or 225 flask, that doesn't help progress build. If Riot wants for fluid lane choices, should offer some better item builds Spiritstone + madreds; never gank lanes ever? Morello hates Riven. He thinks She is "Toxic". Of course, he didnt realize that Rengar was going to be totally OP and toxic, or rework eve, but u know, RIVEN, Toxic.
Riot couldn't balance a checkbook let alone their own damn game. I don't see why they have to mess with champions that are perfectly fine when there's obvious problem champs (Eve, Mumu, Taric, and Talon all sitting at 55% win rates) but no, RIVEN IS THE ONE THAT NEEDS THE RIOT GAMES NERF HAMMER, + Show Spoiler +MORELLO YOU SHITBAG GET FUCKED
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+ Shyvana, Rengar
Rumble is unique. But he's pretty annoying too.
Since you both quoted my pre-quickly-edited post and I know what happened the last time I did that ~_~
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United States47024 Posts
On December 29 2012 16:40 kongoline wrote:
to be fair most of the recent mana using champions they introduced could as well have energy bar, who the hell runs out of mana on darius ...
That's the problem, manaless champ design more or less bled into the way they designed mana champs--top laners in particular.
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If only they made the trade off of manaless champion more significant (with long CD), something along the lines of Garen, it wouldn't be nearly as big of an issue.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 29 2012 16:49 wei2coolman wrote:
If only they made the trade off of manaless champion more significant (with long CD), something along the lines of Garen, it wouldn't be nearly as big of an issue.
But long cooldowns aren't FUN!
I'm actually surprised they haven't designed a manaless AD carry (other than AD Kennen)--seeing as AD carry's are most in line with long-cooldown, autoattack-based gameplay, and would be the easiest to design as manaless.
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United States23745 Posts
On December 29 2012 16:49 wei2coolman wrote:
If only they made the trade off of manaless champion more significant (with long CD), something along the lines of Garen, it wouldn't be nearly as big of an issue.
The fact that Kat exists blows my mind. Here CD's are so absurdly short with no cost at all, always poke never not poke.
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On December 29 2012 16:49 wei2coolman wrote:
If only they made the trade off of manaless champion more significant (with long CD), something along the lines of Garen, it wouldn't be nearly as big of an issue.
garen has long cooldowns? lol u havent played renekton then
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It's odd because i actually find it easier to get tanky out of the jungle. Harder to get like, unkillable tanky, but much, much easier to build smaller items (like locket, zeke, finishing up spirit of the ancient golem)
That's the other thing. You don't need madred's and i think you should actually skip it. 20% extra to monsters is better than random proc that usually overkills. for the price of a wriggle's you can go philo + spirit and actually be able to spam skills (and have them do 20% more), and then build them into items that actually have HP.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 29 2012 16:55 Kaneh wrote:
It's odd because i actually find it easier to get tanky out of the jungle. Harder to get like, unkillable tanky, but much, much easier to build smaller items (like locket, zeke, finishing up spirit of the ancient golem)
That has to do with the buildup/item design on those smaller defensive items like Locket being better, independent of how the jungle is designed.
On December 29 2012 16:55 Kaneh wrote:
That's the other thing. You don't need madred's and i think you should actually skip it. 20% extra to monsters is better than random proc that usually overkills. for the price of a wriggle's you can go philo + spirit and actually be able to spam skills (and have them do 20% more), and then build them into items that actually have HP.
Philo+Spirit is fucking awful. Nobody uses that much regen, esp since everything you'd build after that like Aegis/Locket still also gives regen.
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On December 29 2012 16:59 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 16:55 Kaneh wrote:
It's odd because i actually find it easier to get tanky out of the jungle. Harder to get like, unkillable tanky, but much, much easier to build smaller items (like locket, zeke, finishing up spirit of the ancient golem) That has to do with the buildup/item design on those smaller defensive items like Locket being better, independent of how the jungle is designed. Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 16:55 Kaneh wrote:
That's the other thing. You don't need madred's and i think you should actually skip it. 20% extra to monsters is better than random proc that usually overkills. for the price of a wriggle's you can go philo + spirit and actually be able to spam skills (and have them do 20% more), and then build them into items that actually have HP. Philo+Spirit is fucking awful. Nobody uses that much regen, esp since everything you'd build after that like Aegis/Locket still also gives regen.
But having zero combat stats is pretty cool.
Rah rah! Junglers get no gold. I duinno why I feel so weak when I only ever build items that dont do damage or make me tanky.
<_<
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so whats the opinion on maltz is he worth buying or its just better to buy something like anivia/zyra for mid?
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On December 29 2012 16:54 kongoline wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 16:49 wei2coolman wrote:
If only they made the trade off of manaless champion more significant (with long CD), something along the lines of Garen, it wouldn't be nearly as big of an issue. garen has long cooldowns? lol u havent played renekton then
Well, that too, I wasn't excluding him. Renekton in actually really good spot in s3 imo.
The philo changes in s3, not being able to build sustain early on; like philo in s2, makes jungle lame.
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On December 29 2012 16:51 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 16:49 wei2coolman wrote:
If only they made the trade off of manaless champion more significant (with long CD), something along the lines of Garen, it wouldn't be nearly as big of an issue. The fact that Kat exists blows my mind. Here CD's are so absurdly short with no cost at all, always poke never not poke.
Kat is, IMO, somewhat, how a Manaless champ needs to be designed.
She is:
1. Melle. Melle is always worse than ranged.
2. Squishy.
3. No CC.
4. Vulnerable to CC.
5. Low Damage (unless she gets the reset).
6. Mostly reset reliant.
If Rengar was Rengar with Stealth and Heal he wouldn't be hard to balance, or really that dumb.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
With the ability to kill your entire team given a reset, and can jump to just about anything.
Pretty good stuff.
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United States23745 Posts
On December 29 2012 17:23 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 16:51 onlywonderboy wrote:On December 29 2012 16:49 wei2coolman wrote:
If only they made the trade off of manaless champion more significant (with long CD), something along the lines of Garen, it wouldn't be nearly as big of an issue. The fact that Kat exists blows my mind. Here CD's are so absurdly short with no cost at all, always poke never not poke. Kat is, IMO, somewhat, how a Manaless champ needs to be designed. She is: 1. Melle. Melle is always worse than ranged. 2. Squishy. 3. No CC. 4. Vulnerable to CC. 5. Low Damage (unless she gets the reset). 6. Mostly reset reliant. If Rengar was Rengar with Stealth and Heal he wouldn't be hard to balance, or really that dumb.
She can farm with Q though which can also double as free poke. Plus even if you lose lane as Kat you can just roam and pick up kills. I just really don't like the concept of low CD skills you can spam mindlessly and not be punished for it.
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On December 29 2012 11:40 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 11:28 Praetorial wrote:
Shake is so mannered in soloQ.
He's telling everyone to stay positive and asking people what they got for Christmas despite all the lanes feeding. meanwhile zulu confuses people speaking french with brazilians lol
now he's bitching out scarra on his stream
zulu for king
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Played jungle Shyvana for the first time since the BC nerf. Felt good to bust that out again. Always a good game when you go 29 minutes without dying and successfully help out your lanes. I've also been trying out some of the assassin mids for the first time. Hard to believe I've played this game over 2 years without playing Akali or Katarina until now.
Even after playing some Katarina, I do not understand the appeal. Sure she snowballs pretty decently and farms well once she maxes W, but against a team full of CC she's pretty useless in teamfights. If she's dumb enough to flash or shunpo into the teamfight, she will just get stunned, knocked up, whichevers, and then nuked down hard. Kat needs people to be stupid so she can gank them and snowball, which works in solo queue, but that's it.
Akali on the other hand, is a lot more versatile. She can top, mid, and even jungle with the right runes. I find Akali's gameplay a lot more fun and rewarding. And she has sustain. Her farming is lackluster mid, but her sustain makes farming top okay. I just find her a lot more enjoyable than Katarina.
Eventually I'll cave in and finally purchase the few remaining mids (or mid/tops) that I do not own. Still need to pick up Fizz, Gragas, Syndra, Viktor, Talon, Galio, and Rumble.
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"Xin must be ghosting if he is talking about scarra needing a delay"-Twitch chat
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J4 so fun. Learning how to dunk all day.
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EPT
