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[Patch 1.0.0.152: Preseason 3] General Discussion - Page 27

Forum Index > LoL General
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billy5000
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States865 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-05 02:31:05
December 05 2012 02:25 GMT
#521
as a support, i have a hard time deciding whether to get philo or sightstone after boots (which is like my 2nd time back). any tips on which is more efficient?

i guess the only time i should get sightstone over philo is when i have just about 700g. otherwise, get philo if i can get ~2 wards with it?
Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly; Man got to sit and wonder, 'Why, why, why?' Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he understand. Vonnegut
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
December 05 2012 02:26 GMT
#522
The worst part about paying on EUW is waiting for the patch to hit while watching everyone on the NA servers play.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-05 02:31:05
December 05 2012 02:29 GMT
#523
On December 05 2012 11:24 Irave wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2012 11:18 TheYango wrote:
On December 05 2012 11:09 UniversalSnip wrote:
why do i keep reading that people liked oracles being good? Fuck that item.

The alternative is worse.

Wards being hard to get rid of is just as bad as being too easy, if not worse.

I think with a lot of the items, and the new oracle. It's all more based at keeping the tournament scene more interesting. Some of the items raise the skill ceiling. Oracle change forces the team in solo q to try and accomplish things right away. Instead of getting a lead and being able to punish the opponents the entire game.

I would argue that they're mis-targeting the problem.

The part where having Oracle's allows you to clear wards and have greater vision denial is half the story. The other (and arguably more significant) part of it is that the team with the lead also has more freedom to place more offensive wards which means that they have more overall vision (note that the losing team that's defending pushes/map pressure frequently can get into situations where their wards lapse during this defense, even if the enemy team is not actively clearing them). This is the issue--that having a lead gives you a vision advantage as well, not just greater access to vision denial.

Riot essentially didn't address the problem in any way. They decreased the vision denial advantage by making Oracle's weaker, but they increased the vision advantage by giving teams access to vastly more wards at almost no cost.

On December 05 2012 11:25 billy5000 wrote:
as a support, i have a hard time deciding whether to get philo or sightstone after boots (which is like my 2nd time back). any tips on which is more efficient?

Sightstone is better. Philo got crushed by the huge drop in Shurelya's cost-effectiveness.
Moderator
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-05 02:31:07
December 05 2012 02:30 GMT
#524
It feels like the only way to make wards work overall is to add smoke to the game or a 5 second eve stealth(smoke) active item, or to make kills give even more xp (close to 50-80% more) so it's worth flashing over a wall to bypass a ward.

Or change the map completely to allow more paths and require more wards.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-05 02:33:35
December 05 2012 02:31 GMT
#525
On December 05 2012 11:30 PrinceXizor wrote:
It feels like the only way to make wards work overall is to add smoke to the game or a 5 second eve stealth(smoke) active item, or to make kills give even more xp (close to 50-80% more) so it's worth flashing over a wall to bypass a ward.

Or change the map completely to allow more paths and require more wards.

Or just limit the number of wards a team can have.

Unlimited wards creates a whole host of problems, and limited ward stock enhances gameplay by forcing teams to put greater value on their warding position choices.
Moderator
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-05 02:34:22
December 05 2012 02:33 GMT
#526
On December 05 2012 11:31 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2012 11:30 PrinceXizor wrote:
It feels like the only way to make wards work overall is to add smoke to the game or a 5 second eve stealth(smoke) active item, or to make kills give even more xp (close to 50-80% more) so it's worth flashing over a wall to bypass a ward.

Or change the map completely to allow more paths and require more wards.

Or just limit the number of wards a team can have.

that becomes very unlike riot because it's not fun(too deep). Teams fight over ward locations in that case, the limit would have to be 4 wards or less which is very limited. 2 to protect bot lane ( 1 switches to baron late) 1 to see jungle and 1 to protect top, that makes mid the most vulnerable to ganking but still doesn't let top or bottom see THAT much of a change. Oh you meant a dota system. yeah i'm down for that. i assumed you meant like a "if more than 4 wards on map oldest gets removed" thingy. but yeah dota-like would be more ideal.
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17303 Posts
December 05 2012 02:33 GMT
#527
On December 05 2012 11:24 Irave wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2012 11:18 TheYango wrote:
On December 05 2012 11:09 UniversalSnip wrote:
why do i keep reading that people liked oracles being good? Fuck that item.

The alternative is worse.

Wards being hard to get rid of is just as bad as being too easy, if not worse.

I think with a lot of the items, and the new oracle. It's all more based at keeping the tournament scene more interesting. Some of the items raise the skill ceiling. Oracle change forces the team in solo q to try and accomplish things right away. Instead of getting a lead and being able to punish the opponents the entire game.

Except that now the team with an advantage can just bleed you dry that much more easily because they can afford to keep buying the Oracles more than your team can and can abuse the ward advantage more than your team could.
twitch.tv/cratonz
Irave
Profile Joined October 2010
United States9965 Posts
December 05 2012 02:34 GMT
#528
Oh darn, nobody mentioned it so I missed most of it. But the MLG prizefight is going on Curse v (ex)Quantic. http://www.solomid.net/livestream.php?s=2500 Though its basically over now
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-05 02:35:34
December 05 2012 02:34 GMT
#529
Why is it "not fun"? At the level where limited wards could ever be considered "too deep" nobody buys wards anyway.

On December 05 2012 11:33 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2012 11:31 TheYango wrote:
On December 05 2012 11:30 PrinceXizor wrote:
It feels like the only way to make wards work overall is to add smoke to the game or a 5 second eve stealth(smoke) active item, or to make kills give even more xp (close to 50-80% more) so it's worth flashing over a wall to bypass a ward.

Or change the map completely to allow more paths and require more wards.

Or just limit the number of wards a team can have.

that becomes very unlike riot because it's not fun(too deep). Teams fight over ward locations in that case, the limit would have to be 4 wards or less which is very limited. 2 to protect bot lane ( 1 switches to baron late) 1 to see jungle and 1 to protect top, that makes mid the most vulnerable to ganking but still doesn't let top or bottom see THAT much of a change. Oh you meant a dota system. yeah i'm down for that. i assumed you meant like a "if more than 4 wards on map oldest gets removed" thingy. but yeah dota-like would be more ideal.

The limit should be less than that. The whole point would be to force teams into a position where they're incapable of warding everything, which creates strategic gameplay over which lane's safety you value more.
Moderator
billy5000
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States865 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-05 02:34:52
December 05 2012 02:34 GMT
#530
TheYango, are you saying that I should just skip philo altogether or get it later in the game? I do feel like gp/s items are unnecessary from this one game in which I just rushed sightstone and aegis as leona.
Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly; Man got to sit and wonder, 'Why, why, why?' Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he understand. Vonnegut
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
December 05 2012 02:36 GMT
#531
On December 05 2012 11:34 TheYango wrote:
Why is it "not fun"? At the level where limited wards could ever be considered "too deep" nobody buys wards anyway.

It's fun to me, it's fun to you, to riot, anything that complicates the game and makes you have to make harder decisions is frowned upon. listen to any patch preview ever, look at how they make characters straight into roles now. they don't like that.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
December 05 2012 02:37 GMT
#532
Bottle+Sightstone is essentially equivalent to Philo+Hog, just generating gold in a different way (Bottle through potions, Sightstone through wards).
Moderator
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
December 05 2012 02:37 GMT
#533
On December 05 2012 11:24 petered wrote:
Anybody hating on the new shop is crazy. So much better now. You can get to any category instantly rather than having to click through menus.


man i hope your joking. it took me 10 minutes just to find out how to buy a doran blade. There is really nothing the new shop does better than the old, a lot of needless complexity and terrible design.
I come in for the scraps
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
December 05 2012 02:38 GMT
#534
watching scarra's stream, his jungler's summoner name is "Free Dominate". I lul'd so hard.
liftlift > tsm
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
December 05 2012 02:39 GMT
#535
If you get used to the grid layout of the shop, it's still pretty fast. It's more about getting your eyes used to it so you know exactly where to scan the screen now.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-05 02:39:53
December 05 2012 02:39 GMT
#536
Riot should increase the number of "recommended" item slots. I just got used to buying out of recommended items, except 6 isn't enough to hold everything I might buy (and I got used to DotA 2 where the number of slots for "recommended" items in the UI is basically unlimited).

12 would probably be enough. Can even make them enable-able as a menu option if they feel the extra 6 recommended items would confuse beginners.
Moderator
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
December 05 2012 02:39 GMT
#537
Should I not be surprised that Cop is playing more Ashe?

hue
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
December 05 2012 02:40 GMT
#538
On December 05 2012 11:39 NeoIllusions wrote:
Should I not be surprised that Cop is playing more Ashe?

hue

It feels weird, cuz playing Ashe means he doesn't get to use his #1 Phage luck.

Unless he's playing Triforce Ashe or something.
Moderator
Irave
Profile Joined October 2010
United States9965 Posts
December 05 2012 02:41 GMT
#539
On December 05 2012 11:39 NeoIllusions wrote:
Should I not be surprised that Cop is playing more Ashe?

hue

I wish I would have spotted it sooner. I was watching Shake. Only two sightstones that game, one for each support.
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
December 05 2012 02:42 GMT
#540
Chobra looks a lot like Wax.

o.o
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
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