EPT[Patch 1.0.0.151: End of S2] General Discussion - Page 6
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Dusty
United States3359 Posts
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
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Vlanitak
Norway3045 Posts
On November 13 2012 07:43 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: which strat this this? i'm curious o.o Something the koreans have been doing where you pick jax with ignite for a 1v2 lane and let him have red buff at lvl 1. Igniting the red buff a little help from your midlaner and you get it down fast. Have your jungler steal their red buff and you gank with both red buffs asap. Usually nets them kills early on. Saw this during the OGN, and was wondering why it wasnt more common, Jax with an early red buff and say Maokai or Shen jungle pretty much guarantee's you a kill when they gank and then you snowball from there breaking their 2v1 lane while still maintaining (or stomping) your own 2v1. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On November 13 2012 07:54 Dusty wrote: I kind of like the Ignite CD nerf, it definitely has too low of a cooldown. Highly disagree with the Flash CD nerf... Didn't they already nerf Flash once? I guess they really really want to encourage other summoners, 10 Flash games too boring. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On November 13 2012 07:51 Thereisnosaurus wrote: Colby seems to swear by malady first into tanky/AP items. I kind of agree with him, malady has some sickeningly good synergies with her kit and it's always been somewhat underappreciated since it has no build paths and doesn't offer quite as much as the premium T2 items like wits. Malady+ skittering frenzy makes health bars melt, tanky or squishy. Do her spiderlings apply on-hit effects like Malady/Wits End? | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On November 13 2012 07:37 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: why would you go triforce? an AP bruiser build works much better. her base damages aren't too hot, you kinda need a bit of AP to make her damage relevant midgame. She does get pretty tanky, but i'm finding the sustain from her spider W rather underwhelming vs easy lane or another ap champ -> boots cata RoA glacial abyssal rylai vs hard lane (even though she dunks bruisers) -> boots tabi glacial abyssal rylai anyone else playing Elise? experiences? builds? i really like this champ  i am telandra, 2500 elo top laner, he's 13-3 with her sorcs sheen triforce tanky. i think he goes 9/21/0 with mpen reds and quints and defensive everything else (armor MR) just abuse ranged form til you can get the kill, just like all champs that have multiple forms | ||
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Doctorbeat
Netherlands13241 Posts
On November 13 2012 07:57 Requizen wrote: Didn't they already nerf Flash once? I guess they really really want to encourage other summoners, 10 Flash games too boring. Except ghost is only viable on champions that will stay alive in the middle of a teamfight (bruiser/tank) and have ms modifiers to boost the summoner even more. Flash is too good on squishies to give up. Positioning is key in a teamfight, and the other carries having flash and you don't makes the difference between winning and losing. All of the other summoners aren't good enough to replace flash. You could maybe cheese a lane by having your carry take two offensive summoners, but you won't be winning later on. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On November 13 2012 08:00 Doctorbeat wrote: Except ghost is only viable on champions that will stay alive in the middle of a teamfight (bruiser/tank) and have ms modifiers to boost the summoner even more. Flash is too good on squishies to give up. Positioning is key in a teamfight, and the other carries having flash and you don't makes the difference between winning and losing. All of the other summoners aren't good enough to replace flash. You could maybe cheese a lane by having your carry take two offensive summoners, but you won't be winning later on. hence why they're nerfing it, so it's not a mandatory summoner, which is exactly what req was saying | ||
onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On November 13 2012 08:01 gtrsrs wrote: hence why they're nerfing it, so it's not a mandatory summoner, which is exactly what req was saying I think his point is it's not going to matter. Even if they nerf the cooldown people are still going to take it because the utility it offers is still too good. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 13 2012 07:57 Requizen wrote: Didn't they already nerf Flash once? I guess they really really want to encourage other summoners, 10 Flash games too boring. TBH I think the main inhibiting factor for Ghost right now is the harsh diminishing returns on MS after 495 MS, coupled with how easy it is to actually hit the soft cap with MS quints, masteries, skills, and Shurelya's. 35% MS ends up being way less than advertised because of this in practice. Alternatively, they need to revert the duration nerf on Ghost (back to 15s duration), and bring it back to being a medium-duration mobility skill, rather than a short-burst engagement skill, because as the latter, it's going to be outshined by Flash in almost all cases. Of course, this is sort of irrelevant to Ghost vs. Flash, because by and large, if Ghost is good enough for that, people will run Ghost+Flash, rather than either/or (as was the case prior to the Ghost nerf). | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On November 13 2012 08:04 onlywonderboy wrote: I think his point is it's not going to matter. Even if they nerf the cooldown people are still going to take it because the utility it offers is still too good. maybe this nerf, but eventually they will nerf it to a point of balance where it's not a necessary summoner, which is healthy | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23461 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On November 13 2012 08:04 gtrsrs wrote: maybe this nerf, but eventually they will nerf it to a point of balance where it's not a necessary summoner, which is healthy They have been slowly increasing the CD for a while now and it's still as popular as it is. They said it's only to be a slight nerf, maybe like 20 seconds? I still don't think that will be enough to kill it. Too good for initiations and escapes, nothing else offers close to the same amount of utility. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 13 2012 08:04 gtrsrs wrote: maybe this nerf, but eventually they will nerf it to a point of balance where it's not a necessary summoner, which is healthy The problem I feel is the approach of nerfing a powerful effect via CDs, which I think is a lopsided, and not very practical way to balance a skill. If the skill itself is too powerful, you CAN nerf it to the point of balance by making the CD longer and longer, but this doesn't make the skill practical to use past a point. Examples of this are Revive in its current state in LoL or Refresher Orb in DotA. The effects are balanced, but their balance is made so lopsided by balancing such a powerful effect with such a long cooldown that they are still impractical to use--you aren't guaranteed to have a point where they are practical to use but not overpowered because of this. On November 13 2012 08:06 Slayer91 wrote: the problem with ghost is that much of teamfighting is short combos and burst damage and pokes and such. Theres very few champs who can rampage around doing damage with that movement speed because you just get focused down. Flash is good because you can run in do your burst and flash out, but ghost is only good if you can stay in the fight for a long time. Well, before the Ghost CD nerf, its duration was long enough that you could use it as a semi-map mobility skill--e.g. you pop Ghost while you're running down river, get to the fight faster, and still have 4-5 seconds of it left over, which is enough for you to engage the fight. As a short-term combat skill, it's not going to be as useful as Flash if you're only using it as the fight is engaged. | ||
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Doctorbeat
Netherlands13241 Posts
On November 13 2012 08:01 gtrsrs wrote: hence why they're nerfing it, so it's not a mandatory summoner, which is exactly what req was saying It's going to have to be homeruns with the nerfbat then, to stop people from using flash. On the patch notes, the only champions that look to have significant changes are Kat/Kass/Elise. Anyone think these changes will make Kass more popular, and are base damage nerfs on her spells the best way to balance Kat? | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23461 Posts
On November 13 2012 08:09 TheYango wrote: The problem I feel is the approach of nerfing a powerful effect via CDs, which I think is a lopsided, and not very practical way to balance a skill. If the skill itself is too powerful, you CAN nerf it to the point of balance by making the CD longer and longer, but this doesn't make the skill practical to use past a point. Examples of this are Revive in its current state in LoL or Refresher Orb in DotA. The effects are balanced, but their balance is made so lopsided by balancing such a powerful effect with such a long cooldown that they are still impractical to use--you aren't guaranteed to have a point where they are practical to use but not overpowered because of this. Well, before the Ghost CD nerf, its duration was long enough that you could use it as a semi-map mobility skill--e.g. you pop Ghost while you're running down river, get to the fight faster, and still have 4-5 seconds of it left over, which is enough for you to engage the fight. As a short-term combat skill, it's not going to be as useful as Flash if you're only using it as the fight is engaged. then you end up with situations where ghost is massively too strong until the teamfight phase when it's meh/ | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
I imagine there will be more Heal vs Exhaust on support discussions with the Heal change though, and some Barrier vs Ignite discussions on carries and bruisers. I don't think they can solve the 10 flash problem with changes to it as a summoner spell. The way to solve it is to either give it to everybody as a baseline 3rd summoner (they probably don't want to do this), or remove it as a summoner and attach it to an item like Promote (they probably don't want to do this either) | ||
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