EPT[Patch 1.0.0.151: End of S2] General Discussion - Page 268
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Sermokala
United States13837 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 03 2012 19:50 Nightmare-br wrote: After watching Fnatic play in IPL5 I became really interested in Kha Zhix and would like to know your opinion about him. How viable is he? Is he better in the jungle or in the top lane? Is he fun to play^^? I have a strong belief that Fnatic used Kha'zix as part of a prepared strat specifically to beat TPA because of his strength against TPA's style. Note that they used Kha'zix both times against TPA, and never used him against any other team the entire tournament. On December 03 2012 21:56 Zdrastochye wrote: Royal giving iG the business. It's been far too long since I pointed out that iG is a step below the very best teams. But I won't say it yet. You ARE still talking about a team that's beaten Frost and KT B in Bo5s. On December 03 2012 22:16 Dan HH wrote: Their botlane got completely outclassed. Getting support Elise was a weird decision. WE used it against them as a troll pick in TGA, and for some reason, iG has used it twice since then. I don't think they realized they were getting trolled. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
:/ | ||
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nyxnyxnyx
Indonesia2978 Posts
i still don't fully understand their rationale of their draft though, will have to relook at the game | ||
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Doctorbeat
Netherlands13241 Posts
On December 04 2012 00:13 nyxnyxnyx wrote: khazix fits right in to their assassinate + poke comp. people readily note the assassiny nature of fnatic's teamcomp but neglect the poke part of it (diana+khazix yo) i still don't fully understand their rationale of their draft though, will have to relook at the game I'm looking at Fnatic's picks all tournament now. The overlap between both Kha'Zix games is that SoaZ had to lane against Shen. All other games where he had to play vs Shen he picked Lee Sin, but TPA bans Lee Sin every game against teams that can play him! TPA banned Lee Sin in every single game but the ones against CLG.eu (they likely knew how to deal with Lee mid, the only Lee Sin that's played by CLG.eu. Because TPA always banned Lee, Soaz takes his second best counter to Shen, which apparently is the Kha'Zix. I do have to note that this probably isn't everything, because the first game against TPA had Kha'Zix picked before Shen was. Either Fnatic anticipated the Shen (by looking at TPA comps in previous games, maybe TPA tends to play Shen against assassins, they pick him a lot if Rengar is banned) or Fnatic were going to play the comp regardless, which I highly think was the case. In the interview after that game I think it was nRated who explained that their entire comp revolved around getting the resets on Kat/Kha'Zix with the Blitz pull. The other game TPA banned the blitz but left Diana open. I also think SoaZ got a lot of confidence with the Kha'Zix - Shen matchup in that first game, enough that he would pick it again if Lee wasn't available. | ||
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57 Corvette
Canada5941 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Sermokala
United States13837 Posts
On December 04 2012 01:17 57 Corvette wrote: Why has Kayle practically disappeared from tournament play? I can't remember any nerfs to her recently, nor can I remember why everyone stopped playing her.. Lane swapping came and people had to be capable of surviving a 2v1 lane. Suddenly kayle really had no use and no lane presence. she can wave clear just fine but not farm under tower or do much to a 3 man dive. shes also weak without items. | ||
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bmn
886 Posts
On December 04 2012 01:17 57 Corvette wrote: Why has Kayle practically disappeared from tournament play? I can't remember any nerfs to her recently, nor can I remember why everyone stopped playing her.. As someone who started maining Kayle top with fairly good success -- was she ever a common pick in tournament play? (I don't follow that scene so I wouldn't know) As far as strong late-game scaling goes she seems to be a really strong top laner. Not quite as brutal as Jax, but she has a much better (and safer) pre-6 laning phase in return. And even if she's really behind her ult can turn around games with the right comp; I've had some crazy comebacks with Kayle + Kat (ult allowed her to get reset despite being focused, and she snowballed back into relevance from there). | ||
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bmn
886 Posts
On December 04 2012 01:22 Sermokala wrote: Lane swapping came and people had to be capable of surviving a 2v1 lane. Suddenly kayle really had no use and no lane presence. she can wave clear just fine but not farm under tower or do much to a 3 man dive. shes also weak without items. Wait, what? How is Kayle not a very strong 2v1 lane pick? She can farm under tower very well, and she can clear waves very quickly from a distance. She's also very risky to dive due to her ult and her slow (making you take extra tower hits). Her sustain isn't great but it isn't /that/ bad. I've never played 1v2 lanes (I'm in the ELO where we do have a jungler but not yet at the ELO where people do lane swaps), so I don't really have any experience playing it. But if she isn't good for a 1v2 lane, who is? Barring sustain monsters like Nunu or Yorick, maybe even Cho (though he'll struggle to get the minion kills early). | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On December 04 2012 01:22 Sermokala wrote: Lane swapping came and people had to be capable of surviving a 2v1 lane. Suddenly kayle really had no use and no lane presence. she can wave clear just fine but not farm under tower or do much to a 3 man dive. shes also weak without items. In other news birds have stopped flying. Kayle's not the worst 1v2. One thing I don't get is how she's stomping in pubs with hybrid builds. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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Promises
Netherlands1821 Posts
I'm also wondering, are there any AP-mids you guys would consider viable(ish) that aren't played at the moment? They don't have to be top-top tier but just... very good and could potentially work (for instance I'd say Viktor, Ziggs, perhaps Malzahar/Xerath). While I feel top/bot have decent champ rotation mid at least always seems to have one of a few very familiar faces, and then usually an assasin'y counter to that or something. Wouldnt mind seeing some more variety in action ^^ | ||
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Sermokala
United States13837 Posts
On December 04 2012 01:40 obesechicken13 wrote: In other news birds have stopped flying. Kayle's not the worst 1v2. One thing I don't get is how she's stomping in pubs with hybrid builds. Shes got really good ap ratios and her ult is super effective when people tunnel vision and focus fire a single person. her splash damage will also hit most if not the whole enemy team giveing her the largest damage potential. Shes not THE worst 1v2 shes just really bad. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On December 04 2012 01:20 Alaric wrote: Not a fan of the new Yi and LB splashes. Well, LB is as usual a "I like the pose less but the quality is higher", but Yi, come on... it's ugly. :| Leblancs is good, but Yi's is just dreadfully awful | ||
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TSBspartacus
England1046 Posts
On December 04 2012 01:51 Promises wrote: I'm also wondering, are there any AP-mids you guys would consider viable(ish) that aren't played at the moment? They don't have to be top-top tier but just... very good and could potentially work (for instance I'd say Viktor, Ziggs, perhaps Malzahar/Xerath). While I feel top/bot have decent champ rotation mid at least always seems to have one of a few very familiar faces, and then usually an assasin'y counter to that or something. Wouldnt mind seeing some more variety in action ^^ Xerath. Free week of him and I've been winning lots more than losing, even though I just picked him up. Perhaps in tournament play he isn't all that viable, but his W-Q combo is hard hitting, low cooldown on the Q, and long range and hard to dodge. Stun with W-E-Q or W-E-R, long range too. I'm in love with his W to be honest, it takes a while to get used to but the range is lovely, as is the bonus MPen and the movement speed when you come out of it. Also he is fantastic in teamfights with his ult, and he can zone away from last hitting with his Q if he is even slightly ahead. One bad thing is his stun is tricky to land when you are getting ganked. The best thing is people underestimating his W-E-Q combo and you can catch the enemy AD during a siege while they are trying to poke, then your team just jumps on them. I guess at a higher lvl people won't underestimate him so much, and he lacks a huge burst (though it is still scary) for an AP caster, but I think he could fit in really well in certain team comps and he is one of the best IMO to defend a siege or clearing creep waves late game. Oh and his passive is amazingly good (armour scaling off his AP). | ||
AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On December 04 2012 02:00 arb wrote: Leblancs is good, but Yi's is just dreadfully awful Hopefully this means reworks too because watching Yi mid this weekend all I could see were his ridiculous feet right until he killed lots of people. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On December 04 2012 01:52 Sermokala wrote: Shes got really good ap ratios and her ult is super effective when people tunnel vision and focus fire a single person. her splash damage will also hit most if not the whole enemy team giveing her the largest damage potential. Shes not THE worst 1v2 shes just really bad. One of the reasons I started playing Kayle was because she was really easy to do 1v2 solo top when I was transitioning level 20->30 and sometimes I'd have a jungler and the other team wouldn't. It may not work at higher levels, but I feel Kayle does fine in 1v2 lanes compared to most tops that can get harassed for csing under tower and clear significantly slower than her. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 04 2012 02:17 obesechicken13 wrote: One of the reasons I started playing Kayle was because she was really easy to do 1v2 solo top when I was transitioning level 20->30 and sometimes I'd have a jungler and the other team wouldn't. It may not work at higher levels, but I feel Kayle does fine in 1v2 lanes compared to most tops that can get harassed for csing under tower and clear significantly slower than her. Based on those criteria, virtually any ranged AP carry with a somewhat decent AoE nuke would be as good as Kayle 1v2 top. Except the vast majority of them aren't picked to 1v2. | ||
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