EPTBut the drama was so entertaining! And I felt like I contributed to starting it by linking the Janook video.
[Patch 1.0.0.151: End of S2] General Discussion - Page 176
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
But the drama was so entertaining! And I felt like I contributed to starting it by linking the Janook video. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On November 24 2012 03:24 ManyCookies wrote: Wait really? I mean the Darius' at my level are probably not skilled by any means, but I've just shit on every Darius I've seen as Swain. It's a bit like Irelia vs Olaf: you win at a certain point, but past that you just lose because you can't kill them anymore. You can bully Darius pretty hard while his E is on cooldown, but he outdamages you pretty hard. His apprehend has the same range (and a shorter animation) than your Torment so he will grab you, then auto->W, Q twice, and you'll have 4+ stacks of bleed on you. That's a fuckton of damage pre-6 when you have no sustain, so you can be in his kill range if he Q flash W you for the slow, then keep attacking and ignite, meaning you can't harass him as freely as it'd seem either. At level 6 you can sustain some harass more easily, but can also kill you way more easily. Finally, at all points in the game you will lose if you try to fight him to the death, because the discrepancy in sustained damage is actually huge. And since as the lane goes on short trades become sparser and sparser, he'll just buy some HP (or a hexdrinker) and every time you'll harass him you'll have the risk of him catching you and forcing a fight, which you'll lose because he can build HP/MR and still dish out the pain big times, while you can't do the same as you need AP and he does mixed damage. It's possible that with enough harass and aggressive play Swain can zone Darius early and snowball that lead to crush him (I'm bad at successfully play aggressively with Swain) but from my experience once Darius gets a giant's belt he's basically won by being able to outlast you in fights to the death. | ||
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Parametric
Canada1261 Posts
On November 24 2012 03:41 NeoIllusions wrote: And all you Fiora players... Add me on NA. I have never been sold on her, granted I haven't play her much either but i can't imagine her beating jax or Darius. ;/ Don't know about darius but jax just ruins her day. Fiora presses R, Jax presses E, Jax kills Fiora | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
fiora doesnt suck just people cant understand putting bruisers mid or bot | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
better burst, actually has poke, better leap....etc its laughable | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On November 24 2012 03:41 NeoIllusions wrote: And all you Fiora players... Add me on NA. I have never been sold on her, granted I haven't play her much either but i can't imagine her beating jax or Darius. ;/ fiora gets trashed by any decent jax. edit: I pretty much only pick fiora top vs irelia and shen. e2: oh, and i've beaten kennen a couple of times with her. | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On November 24 2012 03:47 Slayer91 wrote: fiora sucks top, always has pretty much fiora doesnt suck just people cant understand putting bruisers mid or bot Haven't tried her bot yet and not sure if I ever will with Jayce, Pantheon and Jarvan existing, but she's AWESOME mid. I just can't agree with gtr saying her top laning is top 5 worthy. | ||
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CompX
Canada216 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
Ad support top. Bruiser (think lee sin) mid. TP galio bot. Win hard or break even in all lanes. Crush every team objective and team fight. Wat enemy dew? This knowledge bomb brought to you by Yango. | ||
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jadoth
694 Posts
On November 24 2012 01:52 obesechicken13 wrote: I do that all the time in a lower speed environment. I wasn't aware that Trist could jump while jumping though and I play a lot of Trist. Physics? What is that? Tristana can do more than just ult while jumping. She can fire autos and Es as well. She can even flash though the times you want to are rare (avoid hooks, really make distance quickly). Caitlyn can also place traps while netting iirc and you can do a really cool auto Q E trap combo. Seeing as trist uses the kickback of her gun to jump it makes complete sense that she can do it in midair. | ||
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
jax is a very hard counter to fiora fyi. She's much, much better mid. Granted, saying she's a weak laner is plain wrong. You're probably playing her incorrectly. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Maybe Riot doesn't want to put too many silences either because they screw "casters" way more than autoattackers (though even Jax or Olaf/Irelia lose a lot of potential while silenced; Ryze must be the champ on who I've felt the most crippled by a silence), and is also stronger than slows againt escapes as they prevent the target from flashing out, so it's deemed "unfun"? Silences are either not worth against champs that don't mind much ("for the same duration I'd rather slow/root that bruiser") or crippling for casters because of their long duration, so it may not be the easiest disable to balance either. Loads of "either" in there. Also: On November 24 2012 04:17 NeoIllusions wrote: Noob teams really. Ad support top. Bruiser (think lee sin) mid. TP galio bot. Win hard or break even in all lanes. Crush every team objective and team fight. Wat enemy dew? This knowledge bomb brought to you by Yango. I raise you Graves top, Skarner jungle, Jarvan/Leona bot and Orianna mid. | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On November 24 2012 04:08 CompX wrote: I was just thinking about cc during my walk, I figured out that there are only a hand full of champions (Kass, Talon, Raka, Lulu, Fid, etc) have silence as their primary/secondary disable. Is it because silence is such a weak disable that Riot think that stun, snare and slow> silence/they just totally forgot about such disable exist? But, in my opinion, silence is pretty strong, especially fid's darkwind in teamfights I think it's because Riot doesn't want to have people feel too helplessly and useless during a teamfight. Most silences have a duration upwards of two seconds (Fiddle being the big exception, but he is capable of silencing a single target for more than most people, at least in theory), Cho can silence you for 3 seconds straight. Getting stunned sucks, sure, but stuns usually last a second or maybe 1,5. Getting silenced is soooo much more infuriating for some reason, though. I guess it's ''unfun'' not being able to cast your abilites, and so Riot took a balancing approach where they didn't nerf the individual skills into the ground but rather branched out on forms of hard CC, resulting in less available sources of silences which last longer as a result. On November 24 2012 04:19 OutlaW- wrote: Irelia Jax and Udyr are like the only heroes that lee loses to - and he even beats jax for the first 9 or so levels. I think it's a bit ridiculous. Or maybe my Lee is just much better than my elo It's true Lee has an easy time against basically everything but Irelia (Udyr isn't relevant enough any more to be considered imo), but that's doesn't mean he wins his lanes in a hard enough fashion for it to matter. If you manage not to be more than 20-30 CS behind a Lee as Jax, you will be a much much bigger threat than Lee, and that goes for a lot of top laners. Lee is AWESOME in lane and I plan on maining him this season, but you have to do some serious work to take this advantage into the later stages of the game. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On November 24 2012 04:17 NeoIllusions wrote: Noob teams really. Ad support top. Bruiser (think lee sin) mid. TP galio bot. Win hard or break even in all lanes. Crush every team objective and team fight. Wat enemy dew? This knowledge bomb brought to you by Yango. Why run TP on Galio bot lane? Can't quite get my head around that. | ||
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Inschato
Canada1349 Posts
On November 24 2012 04:08 CompX wrote: I was just thinking about cc during my walk, I figured out that there are only a hand full of champions (Kass, Talon, Raka, Lulu, Fid, etc) have silence as their primary/secondary disable. Is it because silence is such a weak disable that Riot think that stun, snare and slow> silence/they just totally forgot about such disable exist? But, in my opinion, silence is pretty strong, especially fid's darkwind in teamfights Silence is a lot stronger than the other CCs in some situations because it prevents you from casting summoners in addition to regular spells (stuns and snares don't prevent those except for flash and teleport(I think?)). It's stronger than a slow if they have flash or an escape ready for instance.. but it's not as useful as a snare or stun is for chaining CCs or preventing them from walking away, and it's not like it costs your opponent any mana, just delays them a little bit. A complete list of silences, for reference: Blitzcrank R: 0.5s / 30s CD (Only really useful as an interrupt) Cho'Gath W: 2-3s / 13s CD (Very powerful cone silence) Fiddlesticks E: 1.2s / 15-11s CD (somewhat luck based but very powerful against grouped up enemies akin to brand ultimate) Garen Q: 1.5-2.5s / 8s CD (Melee on-hit modifier, not much to say about that one) Kassadin Q: 1-2.6s / 9s CD (Probably the strongest one, considering what he can follow it up with) LeBlanc Q-combo: 2s / 6s + 40-24s CD (LeBlanc sucks) Malzahar Q: 1.4-3s / 9s CD (Very strong AoE silence) Soraka E: 1.5-2.5s / 10s CD (Strong because it's free and hits instantly with decent range) Talon E: 1s / 18-10s CD (gap closer & the shortest non-ultimate silence) Viktor R: 0.5s / 120s CD (CHAOS STOOORM) | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
1s on his ult, Blitz's style. | ||
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Koenig99
Canada904 Posts
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Inschato
Canada1349 Posts
On November 24 2012 04:33 Alaric wrote: DUDE YOU FORGOT VIKTOR HOW COULD YOU 1s on his ult, Blitz's style. Stupid wiki... | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
But it's fine if even them forget about Viktor's strengths.  It's still one of the reasons he trashes Katarina. | ||
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