EPT[Patch 1.0.0.150: Shadow Isles] General Discussion - Page…
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icemanzdoinwork
447 Posts
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Irave
United States9965 Posts
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Craton
United States17303 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Suppose you don't want to buy it early, it's too prohibitive on your build. Every champ reaches the point where they're going to sell a small item to make room for wards (usually Doran's) right now. But consider that for 650 cost and 487 sell-back cost, the net cost of buying Sightstone, and selling it later is 163 gold. When you sell that Doran's--it's pretty much strictly better to buy the Sightstone, use as many wards as you can out of it, and sell it later when you need that gold--because if you ever place more than 2 wards, it's saved you money AND gave you 125 HP while you were holding it (whereas wards give you no stats). In it's current state, any champ that's ever sold an item to make space for wards (pretty much every champion in the game) should be buying Sightstone instead of those wards. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On November 10 2012 14:37 TheYango wrote: Another thought about Sightstone. Suppose you don't want to buy it early, it's too prohibitive on your build. Every champ reaches the point where they're going to sell a small item to make room for wards (usually Doran's) right now. But consider that for 650 cost and 487 sell-back cost, the net cost of buying Sightstone, and selling it later is 163 gold. When you sell that Doran's--it's pretty much strictly better to buy the Sightstone, use as many wards as you can out of it, and sell it later when you need that gold--because if you ever place more than 2 wards, it's saved you money AND gave you 125 HP while you were holding it (whereas wards give you no stats). In it's current state, any champ that's ever sold an item to make space for wards (pretty much every champion in the game) should be buying Sightstone instead of those wards. But you sunk 650 gold into it for 125 health. Even though the sell-back rate is good, it's still kind of like a GP10 item. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 10 2012 14:45 Sufficiency wrote: But you sunk 650 gold into it for 125 health. Even though the sell-back rate is good, it's still kind of like a GP10 item. No, you spent 650 gold for 125 health AND WARDS (which you would buy regardless). Consider: Buy Sightstone, place 3 wards, sell Sightstone -- Spent 163 gold, got 3 wards of vision, and had 125 HP while holding it. Buy 3 wards -- Spent 225 gold, got 3 wards of vision, and had no stats. The sunk cost argument doesn't hold if you weren't going to buy anything while you're holding the Sightstone anyway (which is the case at the point in the game where you're selling Doran's for wards--you don't have slots for components so you can't use that money to finish things). | ||
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RouaF
France4121 Posts
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
487 sell-back cost Do we have that stat? I missed it | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Unless stated otherwise, I assumed it was the normal 75% sellback. Even if it's 50% sellback, that increases to 4 wards. Lategame baron standoffs, it's not infrequent for someone to buy 4 wards as the 2 teams trade wards with Oracles--and buying a Sightstone is flat out better than buying 4 wards unless there's a big item you can immediately finish. The fundamental problem here is that Riot believes they've created an item that's super cost-efficient but slot-inefficient. But the item is in fact slot-efficient because while it takes up a slot for only 125 health, it saves those champs the necessity of using a slot for wards, so it's an item that has a net slot-cost of 0 slots. | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
i see no midlaner where the extra control and buffer HP would be worse than having to buy wards throughout the game when this thing seems to pay itself off after you place the first two wards (lol). imagine running that thing with chalice on farm mids, never gankable esp with that extra buffer HP etc etc. its not like GP5 where you wait on it for ages for it to pay itself off lol. and apparently it upgrades. real. | ||
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Filter
Canada620 Posts
On November 10 2012 14:16 VayneAuthority wrote: disagree, the skill level on weekdays in the mornings/early afternoon is really really low. All the casuals and sure they are nice and all since they are either college students or older, but that time slot sucks dong if you are trying to get better. everyone does not give a shit and just plays for fun. Ive experienced this through normal games, 2k+ elo games, etc. its all the same. not a good timezone if you want good games, but great for not getting ragers I tend to player later on at night in the hopes of avoiding the more immature people, and it usually works okay. I've experienced insane differences in skill in the same elo bracket at different times but it's not really all that consistent. I do find in the afternoons when the kids are home from school the level of anger and aggression goes up 10x though. I had some kid burn flash and ignite on me on renekton at level 2 out of absolutely nowhere, he then proceeded to try and tower dive me with malphite until my jungler came to help out and they both left with 50ish hp. I don't really see that kind of super all in play later on at night as people tend to be more focused on building advantages with last hits, setting up ganks etc. When school gets out for the summer the amount of cheese on the sc2 ladder goes up astronomically as well. I was that young once and the mentality seems to be to win at all costs now, with no thought towards future games. Cheese eventually wears out in sc2 and you can really only go so far with it (There are exceptions of cheesers in GM, even some pro's that I would consider cheesey but they are the exception not the rule). Same thing with league, against good players (Which I clearly am not) doing something crazy and all in like blowing your flash etc to try and get an early kill will cause the mid/jungle to immediately target you and ruin any chance you have of winning your lane. When those positions are not very good though being stupidly aggressive can pay off because it's unexpected and you might win your lane, but as you rank up you'll just hit a wall where your style of play ends up being god awful. TL:DR I hate playing in the afternoons. | ||
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Craton
United States17303 Posts
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On November 10 2012 14:48 TheYango wrote: No, you spent 650 gold for 125 health AND WARDS (which you would buy regardless). Consider: Buy Sightstone, place 3 wards, sell Sightstone -- Spent 163 gold, got 3 wards of vision, and had 125 HP while holding it. Buy 3 wards -- Spent 225 gold, got 3 wards of vision, and had no stats. The sunk cost argument doesn't hold if you weren't going to buy anything while you're holding the Sightstone anyway (which is the case at the point in the game where you're selling Doran's for wards--you don't have slots for components so you can't use that money to finish things). Wards don't cost 650 gold. | ||
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Simberto
Germany12010 Posts
On November 10 2012 15:21 Craton wrote: You guys grossly misunderstand how Elo works. Hm, but if the same people have a tendency to play at the same time, it would be possible for 2k elo at 2am to be a different skilllevel then 2k elo at 6pm if the average skilllevel of the people playing at 2am is consistently different then that of those playing at 6pm. | ||
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
On November 10 2012 15:30 Simberto wrote: Hm, but if the same people have a tendency to play at the same time, it would be possible for 2k elo at 2am to be a different skilllevel then 2k elo at 6pm if the average skilllevel of the people playing at 2am is consistently different then that of those playing at 6pm. friday and saturday night and morning full of drunk people who do stupid shit | ||
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
125 health is 330 gold worth of health. That means that you're paying 320 gold worth for wards. That's a little more than 4 wards in gold. You just need to place 4 wards with it to nearly break even for its value, yet you can also sell it back and not only get the gold worth in health back, but a little ward money back too as it sells for over 400. I don't know what's not to understand. x_x Edit: it might be a 50% sell back item, and even then you would still get the health cost back if you sold it. But I will never forgot elasia's miracle being able to be upgraded and sold back and you gaining a profit from it due to philo being 50% and miracle being a 75% sell value. So I wouldn't put it past riot to overlook this and make it a 75% sell value until they go "oh we fucked up again."  | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On November 10 2012 15:30 Simberto wrote: Hm, but if the same people have a tendency to play at the same time, it would be possible for 2k elo at 2am to be a different skilllevel then 2k elo at 6pm if the average skilllevel of the people playing at 2am is consistently different then that of those playing at 6pm. That assumes a very low level of crossover though. It's like evolution, you need territorial isolation from other groups to evolve into a different species of 2k. Interesting system question: what percentage of people would you need to be regularly playing outside of a band of time to break that effect up? | ||
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VirgilSC2
United States6151 Posts
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