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On October 14 2012 18:12 Parnage wrote:
Obligatory old joke here.
Anyway, so with s2 wrapped up, what changes do you think we are going to see in solo que for s3? I am expecting honestly top and bot lane switches and more crazy support choices.
DFG nerf.
Melee AP assassins (Diana, Evelynn, Gragas) becomes poop.
First mid tower damage nerf.
Talon and Pantheon becomes OP (briefly) due to AD caster itemization improvements.
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On October 14 2012 18:19 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 18:12 Parnage wrote:
Obligatory old joke here.
Anyway, so with s2 wrapped up, what changes do you think we are going to see in solo que for s3? I am expecting honestly top and bot lane switches and more crazy support choices. DFG nerf. Melee AP assassins (Diana, Evelynn, Gragas) becomes poop. First mid tower damage nerf. Talon and Pantheon becomes OP (briefly) due to AD caster itemization improvements.
To add on to that, Riven renekton also become OP instead of just lane bullies.
To fix top lane Riot tries various things, introducing an item that builds off anal beads that gives you a spell that does 100 damage to minions, 800 range, 15 second cooldown, asymmetric lanes, making MORE champions that beat all but a few things top, thus relegating even more champions to obscurity etc. In the end they realize that it's not going to matter and they continue as usual.
In all honesty though, I think buffing defensive items(for bruisers) would do well to slow snowballing. That and changing champions(more snowbally ones in particular) to have far less scaling mixed damage sources(making itemizing to survive lanes easier).
Aura items are fine, possibly a buff/change to soulshroud/mana manip, but that's it.
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On October 14 2012 17:55 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 14:01 Frolossus wrote:On October 13 2012 13:56 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
i heard annie is supposed to counter kat, why? doesnt seem like she has anything that makes her particularly strong vs kat point + click CC is all you need to rape kat in lane true story Then again who actually counters Katarina these days beside Diana?
Like I've said multiple times in this thread. Diana is not the counter to Kat. It's a difficult match up but in now way is it a counter. Fiddlesticks and Akali are the direct lane counters to Katarina.
And by counter I mean you will leave the lane with almost no cs and crying tears of bitter hatred.
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On October 14 2012 17:55 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 14:01 Frolossus wrote:On October 13 2012 13:56 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
i heard annie is supposed to counter kat, why? doesnt seem like she has anything that makes her particularly strong vs kat point + click CC is all you need to rape kat in lane true story I played this matchup in both ways (albeit only a couple of times each way) and I feel that Katarina counters Annie. Annie has a lot of problems against Katarina and every time I try to play Annie vs Katarina I get really, REALLY frustrated. The biggest problem is that Katarina's Q has 50 more range than Annie's Q. Katarina can poke with Q then E away; to make the problem even worse, Katarina has 15 higher natural movement speed as well. It's incredibly difficult for Annie to Q a Katarina; even if she does manage to press Q, due to Annie's Q's travel time Katarina would still have enough time to at least break out more distance from Annie, so even of Annie manages to stun Katarina Annie still can't really follow up effectively. Once the stun is expended, Katarina wins trade against Annie with ease. Then again who actually counters Katarina these days beside Diana?
I wouldn't say Kat counters Annie, but I the opposite doesn't seem to be true either. Especially if you run a defensive setup on Kat, you can pull ahead in cs by pushing while Annie will run oom. Kat has to more careful about the enemy jungle though.
Kat's Q harrass doesn't seem to do much imo. Especially because you want to max W. I'd rather go all the way QEW, with defense and 20% dmg reduction from E you should trade decently while Annie has to spend a lot of mana.
You'd figure Fiddle does well against Kat, but once again just defense and pushing seems to work just fine...
If you want a real counter to Kat, go Viktor. Or Tryndamere.
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Fiddle is a very good counter to Katarina IMO.
All she can do is try and push/last hit with Q. To really push the lane hard, she has to get in the middle of the minions and use her W, which puts her in prime range to eat whatever Fiddlesticks wants to throw at her.
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I think just buffing minion damage a bit, especially early on will do a lot to fix the problem with top lane. You can do less bullying, you can't tank minion damage and let lane push toward you while you tank it so it kills your minions. Also this would make it much more difficult for that person to harass your opponent when he wants to reset the lane while in that position, as you will take dmg from 10+ minions in the meantime. Wasn't it like 1 year ago they decreased minion damage, that has had a substantial impact imo on why the lane has turned so much more snowbally.
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On October 14 2012 22:00 Yttrasil wrote:
I think just buffing minion damage a bit, especially early on will do a lot to fix the problem with top lane. You can do less bullying, you can't tank minion damage and let lane push toward you while you tank it so it kills your minions. Also this would make it much more difficult for that person to harass your opponent when he wants to reset the lane while in that position, as you will take dmg from 10+ minions in the meantime. Wasn't it like 1 year ago they decreased minion damage, that has had a substantial impact imo on why the lane has turned so much more snowbally.
Could also decrease the relevance of aggressive supports by a bit, depending on how much the damage is buffed.
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i'm pretty sure the changes are going to be +5-10 movespeed across the board for all champs and -X range on all jump/dash skills
they've become overwhelming to the point where if you play a champ without one you're gimping yourself, and i doubt riot wants to continue that
complete revamping of all items so we have some item diversity
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Was hoping I could ask a question here about AD choice and which supports.
Basically my main AD's are Draven, Vayne and Caitlyn. Against what sort of teams (or with what sort of teams)
should I generally pick which one I take, and which supports work well? Obviously there are a lot of factors but if anyone has a glossary answer that'd be very much appreciated ^^ Right now I'm kind of picking willy nilly really ^^
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On October 14 2012 18:56 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 18:19 Sufficiency wrote:On October 14 2012 18:12 Parnage wrote:
Obligatory old joke here.
Anyway, so with s2 wrapped up, what changes do you think we are going to see in solo que for s3? I am expecting honestly top and bot lane switches and more crazy support choices. DFG nerf. Melee AP assassins (Diana, Evelynn, Gragas) becomes poop. First mid tower damage nerf. Talon and Pantheon becomes OP (briefly) due to AD caster itemization improvements. To add on to that, Riven renekton also become OP instead of just lane bullies. To fix top lane Riot tries various things, introducing an item that builds off anal beads that gives you a spell that does 100 damage to minions, 800 range, 15 second cooldown, asymmetric lanes, making MORE champions that beat all but a few things top, thus relegating even more champions to obscurity etc. In the end they realize that it's not going to matter and they continue as usual. In all honesty though, I think buffing defensive items(for bruisers) would do well to slow snowballing. That and changing champions(more snowbally ones in particular) to have far less scaling mixed damage sources(making itemizing to survive lanes easier). Aura items are fine, possibly a buff/change to soulshroud/mana manip, but that's it.
If they buff defensive items, champs like irelia, renek, olaf etc, who already has kits to deal damage for them, will become incredibly strong.
I hope RIOT starts to buff champions instead of nerfing them, it's incredibly frustrating how quickly the fotm pool can change, because there will always be a champion that gets stronger when a champion is nerfed.
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On October 15 2012 00:26 Sponkz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 18:56 Amui wrote:On October 14 2012 18:19 Sufficiency wrote:On October 14 2012 18:12 Parnage wrote:
Obligatory old joke here.
Anyway, so with s2 wrapped up, what changes do you think we are going to see in solo que for s3? I am expecting honestly top and bot lane switches and more crazy support choices. DFG nerf. Melee AP assassins (Diana, Evelynn, Gragas) becomes poop. First mid tower damage nerf. Talon and Pantheon becomes OP (briefly) due to AD caster itemization improvements. To add on to that, Riven renekton also become OP instead of just lane bullies. To fix top lane Riot tries various things, introducing an item that builds off anal beads that gives you a spell that does 100 damage to minions, 800 range, 15 second cooldown, asymmetric lanes, making MORE champions that beat all but a few things top, thus relegating even more champions to obscurity etc. In the end they realize that it's not going to matter and they continue as usual. In all honesty though, I think buffing defensive items(for bruisers) would do well to slow snowballing. That and changing champions(more snowbally ones in particular) to have far less scaling mixed damage sources(making itemizing to survive lanes easier). Aura items are fine, possibly a buff/change to soulshroud/mana manip, but that's it. If they buff defensive items, champs like irelia, renek, olaf etc, who already has kits to deal damage for them, will become incredibly strong. I hope RIOT starts to buff champions instead of nerfing them, it's incredibly frustrating how quickly the fotm pool can change, because there will always be a champion that gets stronger when a champion is nerfed.
I agree. When bruisers in general were op, they started to slightly nerf base stats and ability damage here and there but mainly buffed IE significantly (+5 dmg, +5% crit for 200g or something less) to let the ADs stay competitive. This was one of the very few 'right' decisions they did at that time.
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On October 15 2012 00:26 Sponkz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 18:56 Amui wrote:On October 14 2012 18:19 Sufficiency wrote:On October 14 2012 18:12 Parnage wrote:
Obligatory old joke here.
Anyway, so with s2 wrapped up, what changes do you think we are going to see in solo que for s3? I am expecting honestly top and bot lane switches and more crazy support choices. DFG nerf. Melee AP assassins (Diana, Evelynn, Gragas) becomes poop. First mid tower damage nerf. Talon and Pantheon becomes OP (briefly) due to AD caster itemization improvements. To add on to that, Riven renekton also become OP instead of just lane bullies. To fix top lane Riot tries various things, introducing an item that builds off anal beads that gives you a spell that does 100 damage to minions, 800 range, 15 second cooldown, asymmetric lanes, making MORE champions that beat all but a few things top, thus relegating even more champions to obscurity etc. In the end they realize that it's not going to matter and they continue as usual. In all honesty though, I think buffing defensive items(for bruisers) would do well to slow snowballing. That and changing champions(more snowbally ones in particular) to have far less scaling mixed damage sources(making itemizing to survive lanes easier). Aura items are fine, possibly a buff/change to soulshroud/mana manip, but that's it. If they buff defensive items, champs like irelia, renek, olaf etc, who already has kits to deal damage for them, will become incredibly strong. I hope RIOT starts to buff champions instead of nerfing them, it's incredibly frustrating how quickly the fotm pool can change, because there will always be a champion that gets stronger when a champion is nerfed.
Riot shouldn't patch for a month, let people figure out how shit really works.
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On October 15 2012 00:33 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2012 00:26 Sponkz wrote:On October 14 2012 18:56 Amui wrote:On October 14 2012 18:19 Sufficiency wrote:On October 14 2012 18:12 Parnage wrote:
Obligatory old joke here.
Anyway, so with s2 wrapped up, what changes do you think we are going to see in solo que for s3? I am expecting honestly top and bot lane switches and more crazy support choices. DFG nerf. Melee AP assassins (Diana, Evelynn, Gragas) becomes poop. First mid tower damage nerf. Talon and Pantheon becomes OP (briefly) due to AD caster itemization improvements. To add on to that, Riven renekton also become OP instead of just lane bullies. To fix top lane Riot tries various things, introducing an item that builds off anal beads that gives you a spell that does 100 damage to minions, 800 range, 15 second cooldown, asymmetric lanes, making MORE champions that beat all but a few things top, thus relegating even more champions to obscurity etc. In the end they realize that it's not going to matter and they continue as usual. In all honesty though, I think buffing defensive items(for bruisers) would do well to slow snowballing. That and changing champions(more snowbally ones in particular) to have far less scaling mixed damage sources(making itemizing to survive lanes easier). Aura items are fine, possibly a buff/change to soulshroud/mana manip, but that's it. If they buff defensive items, champs like irelia, renek, olaf etc, who already has kits to deal damage for them, will become incredibly strong. I hope RIOT starts to buff champions instead of nerfing them, it's incredibly frustrating how quickly the fotm pool can change, because there will always be a champion that gets stronger when a champion is nerfed. Riot shouldn't patch for a month, let people figure out how shit really works.
They haven't had a balance patch in close to 2 months. Here we now are with a dozen champions and DFG that are batshit overpowered and ruining the playing experience tremendously.
Your "experiment" has already failed.
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United States47024 Posts
On October 15 2012 01:20 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2012 00:33 JackDino wrote:On October 15 2012 00:26 Sponkz wrote:On October 14 2012 18:56 Amui wrote:On October 14 2012 18:19 Sufficiency wrote:On October 14 2012 18:12 Parnage wrote:
Obligatory old joke here.
Anyway, so with s2 wrapped up, what changes do you think we are going to see in solo que for s3? I am expecting honestly top and bot lane switches and more crazy support choices. DFG nerf. Melee AP assassins (Diana, Evelynn, Gragas) becomes poop. First mid tower damage nerf. Talon and Pantheon becomes OP (briefly) due to AD caster itemization improvements. To add on to that, Riven renekton also become OP instead of just lane bullies. To fix top lane Riot tries various things, introducing an item that builds off anal beads that gives you a spell that does 100 damage to minions, 800 range, 15 second cooldown, asymmetric lanes, making MORE champions that beat all but a few things top, thus relegating even more champions to obscurity etc. In the end they realize that it's not going to matter and they continue as usual. In all honesty though, I think buffing defensive items(for bruisers) would do well to slow snowballing. That and changing champions(more snowbally ones in particular) to have far less scaling mixed damage sources(making itemizing to survive lanes easier). Aura items are fine, possibly a buff/change to soulshroud/mana manip, but that's it. If they buff defensive items, champs like irelia, renek, olaf etc, who already has kits to deal damage for them, will become incredibly strong. I hope RIOT starts to buff champions instead of nerfing them, it's incredibly frustrating how quickly the fotm pool can change, because there will always be a champion that gets stronger when a champion is nerfed. Riot shouldn't patch for a month, let people figure out how shit really works. They haven't had a balance patch in close to 2 months. Here we now are with a dozen champions and DFG that are batshit overpowered and ruining the playing experience tremendously. Your "experiment" has already failed.
2 months is about when the OP stuff starts to come out. If you really want things figured out you need like 6 months.
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when is a good time for wriggles dependent junglers to buy an oracle?
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On October 15 2012 01:20 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2012 00:33 JackDino wrote:On October 15 2012 00:26 Sponkz wrote:On October 14 2012 18:56 Amui wrote:On October 14 2012 18:19 Sufficiency wrote:On October 14 2012 18:12 Parnage wrote:
Obligatory old joke here.
Anyway, so with s2 wrapped up, what changes do you think we are going to see in solo que for s3? I am expecting honestly top and bot lane switches and more crazy support choices. DFG nerf. Melee AP assassins (Diana, Evelynn, Gragas) becomes poop. First mid tower damage nerf. Talon and Pantheon becomes OP (briefly) due to AD caster itemization improvements. To add on to that, Riven renekton also become OP instead of just lane bullies. To fix top lane Riot tries various things, introducing an item that builds off anal beads that gives you a spell that does 100 damage to minions, 800 range, 15 second cooldown, asymmetric lanes, making MORE champions that beat all but a few things top, thus relegating even more champions to obscurity etc. In the end they realize that it's not going to matter and they continue as usual. In all honesty though, I think buffing defensive items(for bruisers) would do well to slow snowballing. That and changing champions(more snowbally ones in particular) to have far less scaling mixed damage sources(making itemizing to survive lanes easier). Aura items are fine, possibly a buff/change to soulshroud/mana manip, but that's it. If they buff defensive items, champs like irelia, renek, olaf etc, who already has kits to deal damage for them, will become incredibly strong. I hope RIOT starts to buff champions instead of nerfing them, it's incredibly frustrating how quickly the fotm pool can change, because there will always be a champion that gets stronger when a champion is nerfed. Riot shouldn't patch for a month, let people figure out how shit really works. They haven't had a balance patch in close to 2 months. Here we now are with a dozen champions and DFG that are batshit overpowered and ruining the playing experience tremendously. Your "experiment" has already failed.
Does DFG get the champions penetration?
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On October 14 2012 21:51 ChaoSbringer wrote:
Fiddle is a very good counter to Katarina IMO.
All she can do is try and push/last hit with Q. To really push the lane hard, she has to get in the middle of the minions and use her W, which puts her in prime range to eat whatever Fiddlesticks wants to throw at her.
And from my experience you can just shrug off whatever he throws at you if you make sure you can shunpo out of drain leash range right after the fear wears off. Fiddle can't max both fear and drain, and he likely also wants a point in silence, so he either doesn't get to drain you for very long or he will drain for very little damage. With Kat on 9/21/0 and MR glyphs+quints he runs oom before anything meaningful happens. Sure you're gonna have to pour money in pots, but at the same time fiddle is a godawful pusher.
Don't know how it goes if fiddle just maxes silence, but I guess you can just shunpo out of most of the damage it could deal.
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On October 15 2012 01:27 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2012 01:20 Craton wrote:On October 15 2012 00:33 JackDino wrote:On October 15 2012 00:26 Sponkz wrote:On October 14 2012 18:56 Amui wrote:On October 14 2012 18:19 Sufficiency wrote:On October 14 2012 18:12 Parnage wrote:
Obligatory old joke here.
Anyway, so with s2 wrapped up, what changes do you think we are going to see in solo que for s3? I am expecting honestly top and bot lane switches and more crazy support choices. DFG nerf. Melee AP assassins (Diana, Evelynn, Gragas) becomes poop. First mid tower damage nerf. Talon and Pantheon becomes OP (briefly) due to AD caster itemization improvements. To add on to that, Riven renekton also become OP instead of just lane bullies. To fix top lane Riot tries various things, introducing an item that builds off anal beads that gives you a spell that does 100 damage to minions, 800 range, 15 second cooldown, asymmetric lanes, making MORE champions that beat all but a few things top, thus relegating even more champions to obscurity etc. In the end they realize that it's not going to matter and they continue as usual. In all honesty though, I think buffing defensive items(for bruisers) would do well to slow snowballing. That and changing champions(more snowbally ones in particular) to have far less scaling mixed damage sources(making itemizing to survive lanes easier). Aura items are fine, possibly a buff/change to soulshroud/mana manip, but that's it. If they buff defensive items, champs like irelia, renek, olaf etc, who already has kits to deal damage for them, will become incredibly strong. I hope RIOT starts to buff champions instead of nerfing them, it's incredibly frustrating how quickly the fotm pool can change, because there will always be a champion that gets stronger when a champion is nerfed. Riot shouldn't patch for a month, let people figure out how shit really works. They haven't had a balance patch in close to 2 months. Here we now are with a dozen champions and DFG that are batshit overpowered and ruining the playing experience tremendously. Your "experiment" has already failed. 2 months is about when the OP stuff starts to come out. If you really want things figured out you need like 6 months.
6? I remember people calling corki super-OP during the early beta days in the LoL thread and yet Corki was hidden OP for like next 2 years or so. Not only him tbh - malphite, youdeer and basically every single bruiser in the game. Brutalizer took quite long to become popular (i don't remember if it got nerfed but i remember times when it was a must pick for soo many champs.
People not always happy to try out new stuff :S
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On October 15 2012 01:39 Kaniol wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2012 01:27 TheYango wrote:On October 15 2012 01:20 Craton wrote:On October 15 2012 00:33 JackDino wrote:On October 15 2012 00:26 Sponkz wrote:On October 14 2012 18:56 Amui wrote:On October 14 2012 18:19 Sufficiency wrote:On October 14 2012 18:12 Parnage wrote:
Obligatory old joke here.
Anyway, so with s2 wrapped up, what changes do you think we are going to see in solo que for s3? I am expecting honestly top and bot lane switches and more crazy support choices. DFG nerf. Melee AP assassins (Diana, Evelynn, Gragas) becomes poop. First mid tower damage nerf. Talon and Pantheon becomes OP (briefly) due to AD caster itemization improvements. To add on to that, Riven renekton also become OP instead of just lane bullies. To fix top lane Riot tries various things, introducing an item that builds off anal beads that gives you a spell that does 100 damage to minions, 800 range, 15 second cooldown, asymmetric lanes, making MORE champions that beat all but a few things top, thus relegating even more champions to obscurity etc. In the end they realize that it's not going to matter and they continue as usual. In all honesty though, I think buffing defensive items(for bruisers) would do well to slow snowballing. That and changing champions(more snowbally ones in particular) to have far less scaling mixed damage sources(making itemizing to survive lanes easier). Aura items are fine, possibly a buff/change to soulshroud/mana manip, but that's it. If they buff defensive items, champs like irelia, renek, olaf etc, who already has kits to deal damage for them, will become incredibly strong. I hope RIOT starts to buff champions instead of nerfing them, it's incredibly frustrating how quickly the fotm pool can change, because there will always be a champion that gets stronger when a champion is nerfed. Riot shouldn't patch for a month, let people figure out how shit really works. They haven't had a balance patch in close to 2 months. Here we now are with a dozen champions and DFG that are batshit overpowered and ruining the playing experience tremendously. Your "experiment" has already failed. 2 months is about when the OP stuff starts to come out. If you really want things figured out you need like 6 months. 6? I remember people calling corki super-OP during the early beta days in the LoL thread and yet Corki was hidden OP for like next 2 years or so. Not only him tbh - malphite, youdeer and basically every single bruiser in the game. Brutalizer took quite long to become popular (i don't remember if it got nerfed but i remember times when it was a must pick for soo many champs. People not always happy to try out new stuff :S
malphite was not hidden OP, he got buffs to get where he was when he was truly OP (Q max malphite era)
now he's not OP either, it's just that almost everything else top lane has been nerfed to unplayability and he's strong in the meta
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EPT
