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On September 05 2012 05:13 R11 wrote:
I am a firm believer that ELO hell doesn't exist, what exists are two things.
1. There will be times you get good team and bad team (can be dependent on your team mates match ups/ whether they are good with that champion against the enemy. This however should be negligible once you play a large amount of ranked games.
2. There are flaws in your game play where you can play better even if you don't know about it (look at regional's, players that play competitively and still makes mistakes, you think you wouldn't?)
You can't control the first factor, so you can only improve on the second. Honestly, you can play the absolute best game of your life and there is probably still 5-10 things you can still do better.
A few months ago, I had a drop of 200 elo from 14XX to almost 12XX, in this string of games I stomped bot lane 90% of the time but a combination of jungle/top/mid always did worst. Took a break because I got sick of losing and complained to my friend and we decided to duo for a bit. The biggest difference I noticed between him and I was that, skill wise I feel I am significantly ahead of him, however he would always run to support team mates even if it was a far distance.
What I realized was I usually stayed bot to farm as AD, and ignore a few skirmishes (as long as I keep farming I can carry), and I tend to let the jungler decide when to dragon rather than actively obtaining it (since bot was always ahead, we should always have each dragon)
Almost everyone I know starting ranked had gone up to 1300-1400 + and suddenly had these drops of 100-200 elo. The people that fail to climb up are the people who don't see the mistakes and improve on it (grinding hundreds of games don't help as much if you don't know what your doing wrong), or the general bm players that destroy team moral for anything someone does wrong.
Hm. Maybe I should take this anecdote as a lesson. I also just tanked nearly 100 elo (1390 -> 1311) on a bad loss streak, and I think that some of the problem was that while I might have been one of the more farmed/fed on my team (such as an irelia game which I was 50 cs up above anyone else, but everyone else had died so much that I couldn't frontline because the enemy team had too much damage) I don't think I was being effective at helping my teammates and securing objectives - even when I was jungler I was farming the jungle too much and not ganking enough. Sure, I ended up farmed, but it's hard to come back from a 10+ kill/2-3 tower deficit just by being up 50 CS.
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On September 05 2012 06:20 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 06:08 Sufficiency wrote:I do think there are certain champions who perform better in soloQ because they carry harder. I was playing on a friend's account at 1100 Elo; for some reason I decided to play Jayce and Caitlyn on my first two games and I actually lost both because I couldn't carry really hard. Sad story. Then I switched to playing Vayne (I don't even know how to play Vayne) and then The die is cast -> pewpewpew won all my games. Hypercarries are actually a good showing of whether or not your mechanics are as good as you think. If you can get past the shit laning phase of someone like Vayne or Singed, or get a bunch of kills as Swain or Morde, you can go on to win everything ever until you reach a point where people actually know how to abuse your early game. I just realized I don't really play any of those champions... except maybe Jax, but he actually requires a bit of finesse.
To be perfectly honest, what happened was more like I crushed the lane with Vayne by getting a whole bunch of kills and make my lane opponents ragequit - they never survived beyond the laning phase. It was kind of fun, but I feel bad at the same time - because I was clearly far more skilled than everyone else at 1100 Elo even though I was playing a champion I almost never played before.
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ragequit victories are my favorite victories.
it's like, not only did you beat them...
you mentally destroyed them.
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My games with Vayne are usually as following:
1. Feed, Feed, Feed and Feed some more because they are Graves/Alistar into Vayne/blitz.
2. I either get some amazing ganks or they just don´t know how to play vs Vayne so I go 7/0 and they surrender so fast I never get to pentakill them  .
Honestly I would never have the guts to play Vayne in ranked (1400) because graves/ezreal are picked every single game and I´m just not that good at carry that I can make lanes like that work.
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On September 05 2012 06:45 kainzero wrote:
ragequit victories are my favorite victories.
it's like, not only did you beat them...
you mentally destroyed them.
In their defense, when a Vayne is like 5-0 by the 15th minute it's kind of over. 
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I've made 3 people so far ragequit as Nunu top. Feels good.
Actually, the best part of playing Nunu top is taunting with "Wow, you can't beat a solo lane Nunu?" and watching their team rage like hell. Psychological warfare!
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The days of AP soraka were the best. Get flamed and laughed at by both of the teams before minions even spawn. Level 3 firstblood, whos laughing now? Then the person would get flamed so much by their team for losing to AP soraka they would just quit.
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I used to play vayne a lot(I actually have like 3X games on her in ranked games). I think at one point my winrate was 2-12 or something absurdly low like that. If you can get to BT in one piece stuff starts going your way, and then past PD game gets easier, the problem is making it there without feeding terribly, because one or two mistakes early on and you just get destroyed because you have no aoe/long ranged clear. Her lategame is pretty godlike though because you can kill basically everybody, regardless of their resistances/health/armor in under 3 seconds.
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Nunu top is indeed hilariously fun to play as. Snowball to da face!
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AstroNautilus and Pool Party Ziggs are now in the store fyi
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The elo hell thingy indeed is about flamers who are better than the average skill level there(yes they indeed are better) but their flaming makes them lose games due to team morale and them getting frustrated causes them to play worse. However, when they do play at their best with no need to flame, for instance in games with a good start, those elo hell players can play at a significantly higher level than their current elo. It's pretty much an attitude problem.
This is also why I think that flamers tend to be the best players in a team. If a player seems like he flames alot that should have brought his elo down so it probably means that his actual skill is higher than average for the elo so try your best to reason with him because if you get him to play normally he's going to be a useful asset, I'm almost certain of it.
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On September 05 2012 06:59 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:
AstroNautilus and Pool Party Ziggs are now in the store fyi
coming alongside the doubling of bonus RP while buying RP (until sept 10)
for 35€ (what I intended to put anyways) instead of 6451 you get 7300
timing's good
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On September 05 2012 06:47 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 06:45 kainzero wrote:
ragequit victories are my favorite victories.
it's like, not only did you beat them...
you mentally destroyed them. In their defense, when a Vayne is like 5-0 by the 15th minute it's kind of over.
No?
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Vayne is my most played champ, I grinded to 1500 with her (and kog/graves too, my highest KDA and % win being with kog), then switched to jungle. Now when I play her I just get shit on.
The main problem I see is that if your support don't know how to play with you (giving you vision for bush being really important) you cannot win your lane at all.
Also I'm really horrible with Ezreal for some mysterious reason I don't understand (I think I'm basically 0% win in ranked with that hero, out of 8-10 games). Carry is like hyper shakky for me, aside for kog.
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2 Things (one the last few pages):
1. How is Singed a hypercarry?
2. Does anyone know of a place where they did the math that causes people to not buy Phantom Dancers when they have a Nunu on the team?
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On September 05 2012 07:40 cLutZ wrote:
2 Things (one the last few pages):
1. How is Singed a hypercarry?
2. Does anyone know of a place where they did the math that causes people to not buy Phantom Dancers when they have a Nunu on the team?
Singed isn't, he's a midgame carry who when fed can basically speedpush everything while being unkillable and killing everything in teamfights. He falls off pretty hard late, though.
Weird about the PD because I wouldn't assume that Nunu is hugging me the whole game.
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On September 05 2012 07:08 Shikyo wrote:
The elo hell thingy indeed is about flamers who are better than the average skill level there(yes they indeed are better) but their flaming makes them lose games due to team morale and them getting frustrated causes them to play worse. However, when they do play at their best with no need to flame, for instance in games with a good start, those elo hell players can play at a significantly higher level than their current elo. It's pretty much an attitude problem.
This is also why I think that flamers tend to be the best players in a team. If a player seems like he flames alot that should have brought his elo down so it probably means that his actual skill is higher than average for the elo so try your best to reason with him because if you get him to play normally he's going to be a useful asset, I'm almost certain of it.
this sounds like me so maybe i know my problem....
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On September 05 2012 07:45 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 07:40 cLutZ wrote:
2 Things (one the last few pages):
1. How is Singed a hypercarry?
2. Does anyone know of a place where they did the math that causes people to not buy Phantom Dancers when they have a Nunu on the team? Singed isn't, he's a midgame carry who when fed can basically speedpush everything while being unkillable and killing everything in teamfights. He falls off pretty hard late, though. Weird about the PD because I wouldn't assume that Nunu is hugging me the whole game.
1. Thats what I thought.
2. Hmm.
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Oh, the Elo hell myth argument again.
To summarize: it only exists as a mental block within yourself. There's a reason people can widely and consistently start at any Elo on any account and quickly get back close to their normal Elo.
Easiest way to climb is just have a good stable of champs you're very comfortable with that you keep playing with. Duoing can also be helpful. However, that just raises your Elo. While every game you play garners you marginal increases in overall ability, simply playing the same champ or handful of champs all the time will slow your total learning curve.
You have to learn to not be scared of losing.
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On September 05 2012 07:45 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 07:40 cLutZ wrote:
2 Things (one the last few pages):
1. How is Singed a hypercarry?
2. Does anyone know of a place where they did the math that causes people to not buy Phantom Dancers when they have a Nunu on the team? Singed isn't, he's a midgame carry who when fed can basically speedpush everything while being unkillable and killing everything in teamfights. He falls off pretty hard late, though. Weird about the PD because I wouldn't assume that Nunu is hugging me the whole game.
As much as I like Singed, this is pretty true. He can be very good for peels though, but outside of an amazing fling he does fall off late game.
Also, unless you're playing a highly mobile carry and assume the Nunu is going to sit on you forever, I wouldn't advise not getting PD either. There are certain situations where it could be justified, like the Triforce into big BF items, but those are the exceptions. It certainly shouldn't be impacted by just having a Nunu though.
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EPT
