• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:01
CEST 23:01
KST 06:01
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!2Weekly Cups (July 13-19): Terran & Protoss rise; Zerg falters1Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)65Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format16[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend!18
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (July 13-19): Terran & Protoss rise; Zerg falters How would you feel about frequent/monthly balance patches for SC2? Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard" [D] Wireframe Casting Removed
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) WardiTV Summer Cup 2026 GSL CK #5 Race War HomeStory Cup 29
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together
Brood War
General
HORROR STARCRAFT MOVIE How Famous was FlaSh before his Debut? BW General Discussion Recent recommended BW games screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool
Tourneys
[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend! [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament - Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread How to buy a book - shipping from Korea to Europe The Games Industry And ATVI UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Role of Gaming on Mental Hea…
TrAiDoS
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10024 users

[Patch 1.0.0.145: Rengar] General Discussion - Page 52

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 50 51 52 53 54 189 Next
Shiv.
Profile Joined January 2011
3534 Posts
August 19 2012 19:53 GMT
#1021
On August 20 2012 02:42 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2012 02:40 gtrsrs wrote:
On August 20 2012 02:30 JackDino wrote:
On August 20 2012 02:29 gtrsrs wrote:
i'm pretty sure everyone knows that jayce is a lane dominator
it's not like some well-kept secret that jayce/nidalee are good in lane
people aren't picking them up because their lategame presence is lacking
invisible? no. but as good as jax, riven, malphite, vladimir? ... not even close baby

Jayce belongs right in that list. High base damage, good scaling, a knockback, good poke and his acceleration gate is simply broken. 50% movespeed to the entire team.


he has no ult

Yeah, Nidalee doesn't have an ult either, huh/

Which is why he called her out for being bad late game too, huh.
currently rooting for myself.
OutlaW-
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Czech Republic5053 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-19 19:57:58
August 19 2012 19:55 GMT
#1022
I consider myself a fairly regular Draven player..

He has the best laning phase of all AD carries, frequently I find myself 1v2ing lanes like janna ezreal even when my support is out warding. Your poke is ridiculous, noone can really trade you as long as you have axes up. You also have the best level 1 and 2, so feel free to try surprise from behind tactics for easy FB. Another thing draven does well is poke people last hitting under the turret and running back. The thing is, in order to take advantage of these advantages that Draven has you need to be mechanically sound and you need to understand how bottom lane works. If you aren't aggressive and you don't take use this huge advantage, then draven is simply not worth taking over somebody with a jump. (every AD without an escape needs to have their advantage be used properly or ADs with a jump just outperform them)

Later in the game, draven has a few problems. Assassins are easily able to take him out as he has no jump and tanks who are able to tank and walk up to him also give him problems. These problems can be worked around with a teamcomp, though, so I still feel that Draven is very viable, it's just that people haven't tried or come up with how to do it yet.
To sum this all up, Draven has the best laning phase of AD carries that you have to take advantage of to snowball.
If you don't, you need a team that can protect you, or you will be useless in teamfights.

+ Show Spoiler +
Just yesterday I had a game where me and enten went even in laning phase (i was up 1 kill but he had 20 more CS) and the game ended in us getting absolutely smashed (he was ez btw) because their chogath got so tanky that in 30 min he could just run up to me and make me completely useless. The reason why we completely lost was because we had a very bad team for Draven; we had garen top who is in the middle of the fight trying to kill squishies, shyvana that dragon'd into their team and left me as well, leblanc support who couldnt protect me as sshe was also trying to kill squishies and a gragas who was also completely useless as his team didn't create opportunities for him to burst people down and run away.


The niche and interesting thing about him is that he can have one of the best and one of the worst AD late games in the game, all depending on if his team works with him or not.
Delete your post underage b&. You're incestuous for you're onee-chan so you're clearly not a bad guy, but others might not agree
Zaphod Beeblebrox
Profile Joined December 2010
Denmark697 Posts
August 19 2012 20:19 GMT
#1023
Sometimes unplayed champions are... just that, unplayed.
Sometimes there are good reasons, but sometimes the champion is just not FoTM, or noone has tried to figure out a competitive build.
Look at Nunu, he got a minor buff, people realized the strength of grail and he is suddenly one of the most common champs. Or when Koreans cracked the secret of Ezrael, when Mundo went from trash to top tier jungler or when Locket Veigar was discovered(RIP locket).

If a pro makes an underplayed champion work with a new build, or playstyle, they will get a lot of attention, and people start playing them.

I do think Jayce will get a lot of attention once someone figures out what he can provide for the team.

Also Poppy is insanely strong as a counterpick. Unfortunately her best lane opponents fell out of favor about the same time as Zekent showed her true strength (Panth, Trynd, Garen, Nasus and a few others are hard countered by Poppy).
That being said, she CAN be picked into less favorable machups and still win on her insane scaling.
Or you pick her against Olaf/Darius/Swain and get destroyed.
Go try StarBow on the Arcade. TL thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=440661
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
August 19 2012 20:22 GMT
#1024
Man, gone are the days of 4 philo stone poppy...
liftlift > tsm
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
August 19 2012 20:43 GMT
#1025
On August 20 2012 04:02 obesechicken13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2012 02:25 Morfildur wrote:
On August 20 2012 01:48 obesechicken13 wrote:
On August 20 2012 01:44 h3r1n6 wrote:
Poppy is literally the worst champion at farming. She has ridiculously good scaling, but she can't get items. It's very possible to play her in soloqueue (point in case Zekent), but it's hard to impossible to get her farmed if your opponents play it right/pick Olaf.

Jayce is just not played because of the too many champions syndrome. First, people need to put effort in to learn an underplayed champion. Second, why play that nerdy Jayce guy when you can play some chick with big boobs.

I think jayce should get a big boobs skin. I have no idea why he's not played. I'm buying him today. Dude is literally broken in lane according to my math. Like every time he puts a point in Q it's like he's putting two points in Q, whereas another champion only gets one point.

Also relevant to the boots discussion.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Thanks for the horrible mental image of a Jayce with boobs...

np

I really like HSGG's nidalee but I don't think it fits in team comps anymore. He really couldn't teamfight as an AP and tried bruiser nidalee only briefly. Back when HSGG played nidalee in tournaments he was much better than everyone else and the meta was different. He was like Boxer. He could do anything he wanted and still win.

Eventually people were able to punish him for splitpushing.


You're forgetting the part where Nidalee was nerfed twice. First was when her heal along with every other heal in the game got nerfed. Then came the removal of dodge, mana cost changes to her heal, an AP ratio nerf to her heal, and other changes. After a bunch of her changes during the dodge removal is when bruiser Nidalee got fotm status because her heal's mana cost increased and the AP ratio got cut from like 1.2 to .7 or something along with the base heal healing Nid for less but having it ramp up later.

It wasn't just meta changes or other players "catching up with" Hotshot. The champion got nearly every spell changed. I have a suspicion that CLG developed their poke comp partly so that Hotshot could still play AP Nid.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
August 19 2012 20:55 GMT
#1026
On August 20 2012 02:24 IMoperator wrote:
Are people ever going to realize that draven is a really really good adc, especially in laning phase? Those axes man, they chunk hard.


Draven wins lanes and loses in team fights.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
August 19 2012 20:57 GMT
#1027
I agree that Jayce's late game is not the best. Then again, a lot of top laners have this issue.

It is important that Jayce dominate the mid game. He also pushes towers really hard with his W. These are his strengths.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
August 19 2012 20:57 GMT
#1028
Who gives a damn about Jayce or the others? I'm still drooling over Syndra's kit <3 (and blatantly ignoring the fact that the only reason I'm successful with Orianna is her passive and not her zoning capability).
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
August 19 2012 20:58 GMT
#1029
On August 20 2012 05:57 Alaric wrote:
Who gives a damn about Jayce or the others? I'm still drooling over Syndra's kit <3 (and blatantly ignoring the fact that the only reason I'm successful with Orianna is her passive and not her zoning capability).


Sandra is not even out on PBE yet. It will take at least another 2-3 weeks before she is on LIVE.

https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
August 19 2012 21:05 GMT
#1030
Why do all the pros love nunu bot (the skin)? I personally hate it...
Freeeeeeedom
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
August 19 2012 21:08 GMT
#1031
Because of its laugh.

And it's 'k about Syndra, I waited around a month for Viktor, I'll survive.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
August 19 2012 21:12 GMT
#1032
On August 20 2012 06:05 cLutZ wrote:
Why do all the pros love nunu bot (the skin)? I personally hate it...


Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha

Yummy

Towerdive! We must towerdive!

Bots are superior to non-bots.

https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Leonite7
Profile Joined July 2011
Ireland921 Posts
August 19 2012 21:13 GMT
#1033
Dammit. I bought Orianna and the only thing I got out of it was the realisation that I suck at mid and I should have saved up for Rengar top lane.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-19 21:16:21
August 19 2012 21:16 GMT
#1034
On August 20 2012 06:13 Leonite7 wrote:
Dammit. I bought Orianna and the only thing I got out of it was the realisation that I suck at mid and I should have saved up for Rengar top lane.


Orianna is not only very hard to play, she is also not very good for soloQ since her strength lies with teamfights. I bought her. I really regret it.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
August 19 2012 21:18 GMT
#1035
I dunno. Orianna is good in solo queue if your opponents group up. QWR wins team fights harder than any other AP carries combo imo. Although, maybe Zyra's combo wins teamfights harder now.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
August 19 2012 21:23 GMT
#1036
On August 20 2012 06:18 overt wrote:
I dunno. Orianna is good in solo queue if your opponents group up. QWR wins team fights harder than any other AP carries combo imo. Although, maybe Zyra's combo wins teamfights harder now.


But it still requires a lot of coordination, something that is lacking in soloQ.

Also Orianna's laning phase is.... mediocre at best. She also can't roam really well because her damage against a single target is kind of low and her CC is pretty meh. There is no reason to play Orianna in soloQ right now because there is Zyra, who is easier to play, more damage, more CC, and facerolls pretty hard in lane.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Leonite7
Profile Joined July 2011
Ireland921 Posts
August 19 2012 21:24 GMT
#1037
On August 20 2012 06:23 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2012 06:18 overt wrote:
I dunno. Orianna is good in solo queue if your opponents group up. QWR wins team fights harder than any other AP carries combo imo. Although, maybe Zyra's combo wins teamfights harder now.


But it still requires a lot of coordination, something that is lacking in soloQ.

Also Orianna's laning phase is.... mediocre at best. She also can't roam really well because her damage against a single target is kind of low and her CC is pretty meh. There is no reason to play Orianna in soloQ right now because there is Zyra, who is easier to play, more damage, more CC, and facerolls pretty hard in lane.


Ok. New rule for all future purchases. Must consult Team Liquid.
zer0das
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States8519 Posts
August 19 2012 21:34 GMT
#1038
On August 20 2012 06:05 cLutZ wrote:
Why do all the pros love nunu bot (the skin)? I personally hate it...


His laugh is one of the most annoying in the game. Pretty much every Nunu Bot I've run into just spams it 24/7. :>
1godless
Profile Joined August 2011
United States247 Posts
August 19 2012 21:43 GMT
#1039
On the topic of consulting TL, I am looking for a new jungler. I play mundo udyr alistar lee sin and lately amumu malphite. Who should I add? I have naut even though I don't play him that much. So basically who should I add? Maokai, Sej, Shy, Riven, Diana, Hec, Jarvan. Skarner or Volibear? It seems like a long list but I kinda want to be slightly hipsterish and add a slightly un orthodox jungler. Suggestions? Comments on their various strengths? thanks guys
The enemy's throne is down
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
August 19 2012 21:44 GMT
#1040
How is Orianna's laning phase bad? She can last hit easily and farm under tower without missing any cs if pushed to tower, can push lanes easily when you want to, and she doesn't even really have many bad matchups. Utility is her great strength, yeah, but she still dishes out a shit ton of damage if you're landing your Qs properly. It actually boggles my mind that someone thinks Orianna's laning phase is bad. Zyra is easier to play but she gets banned sometimes while Orianna never gets banned.
Prev 1 50 51 52 53 54 189 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1d 2h
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 761
TKL 336
IndyStarCraft 169
elazer 113
ZombieGrub111
FoxeR 26
StarCraft: Brood War
Free 59
HiyA 26
Bale 16
IntoTheRainbow 14
League of Legends
KnowMe45
Counter-Strike
ScreaM1617
fl0m1450
summit1g1299
minikerr25
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu516
Other Games
tarik_tv4454
Grubby2799
uThermal584
shahzam444
Pyrionflax253
B2W.Neo237
SteadfastSC206
UpATreeSC129
ROOTCatZ99
JuggernautJason86
Trikslyr41
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2338
BasetradeTV199
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 213
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 53
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21116
League of Legends
• TFBlade1164
Other Games
• imaqtpie874
• Shiphtur554
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
1d 2h
The PondCast
1d 12h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 13h
OSC
2 days
CrankTV Team League
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
CrankTV Team League
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Clem vs ByuN
Serral vs SHIN
Online Event
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
herO vs Solar
Rogue vs Lambo
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E3

Ongoing

Acropolis #4
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.