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On August 15 2012 12:47 koreasilver wrote:
The last time I played on PBE, Rengar's item was 1000 gold. I was excited because I thought he would make a really fun jungler but he actually kinda sucks dick at jungling.
Sorely disappointed.
????
Unless things have changed dramatically, he was only slightly less faceroll than Diana.
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varus was already strong. now his ult is lol
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On August 15 2012 12:26 MusicalPulse wrote:Kat got nerfed really hard....really sad about it  Farewell old Kat, I've enjoyed you as my main over the years.
I don't understand why people think Kat got nerfed... She lost AD ratio and a 20 base damage on Q, lost 0.2 ratio and 50 damage on E. But she gained that back with the whole Q marks with 0.2 ratio and up to 75 damage. Then she gained an entirely new damaging skill that has a ridiculous 4 second base cooldown that does very respectable damage. On top of that, she gets the damage reduction from her old W every cast of E. The loss of health reduction on her Q sucks, but I think the other changes more than makes up for it.
Iunno if it's just me but her W looks ridiculous. A free ~375 range harassment spell every 4 seconds with no cdr sounds insane. She might be better top now tho.
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AP teemo is going to be fun with the new toxic shot.
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On August 15 2012 13:01 Jumbled wrote:
I'm still stunned that they doubled the scaling on Kayle's E. I think I'm going to get a lot of 'OP' complaints in upcoming games.
I don't see how since everybody builds Kayle AD carry. I mean it might make hybird stronger but that is about it.
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On August 15 2012 13:15 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 12:26 MusicalPulse wrote:Kat got nerfed really hard....really sad about it Farewell old Kat, I've enjoyed you as my main over the years. I don't understand why people think Kat got nerfed... She lost AD ratio and a 20 base damage on Q, lost 0.2 ratio and 50 damage on E. But she gained that back with the whole Q marks with 0.2 ratio and up to 75 damage. Then she gained an entirely new damaging skill that has a ridiculous 4 second base cooldown that does very respectable damage. On top of that, she gets the damage reduction from her old W every cast of E. The loss of health reduction on her Q sucks, but I think the other changes more than makes up for it. Iunno if it's just me but her W looks ridiculous. A free ~375 range harassment spell every 4 seconds with no cdr sounds insane. She might be better top now tho.
New Kat can dive carries pretty well if they don't get good support. My Ashe had to blow flash many a time in a game just now...but lulu ult shuts down shunpo I think.
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United States15536 Posts
I completely didn't realize it was already patch time. Been enjoying Diana so much I haven't been invested in the next champ yet. Excited about the Jayce changes (I picked him up but haven't played with him at all yet... Oops)
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On August 15 2012 13:15 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 12:26 MusicalPulse wrote:Kat got nerfed really hard....really sad about it Farewell old Kat, I've enjoyed you as my main over the years. I don't understand why people think Kat got nerfed... She lost AD ratio and a 20 base damage on Q, lost 0.2 ratio and 50 damage on E. But she gained that back with the whole Q marks with 0.2 ratio and up to 75 damage. Then she gained an entirely new damaging skill that has a ridiculous 4 second base cooldown that does very respectable damage. On top of that, she gets the damage reduction from her old W every cast of E. The loss of health reduction on her Q sucks, but I think the other changes more than makes up for it. Iunno if it's just me but her W looks ridiculous. A free ~375 range harassment spell every 4 seconds with no cdr sounds insane. She might be better top now tho.
go read the katarina thread here
i literally made like 10 posts outlining how she got nerfed to a complete state of unplayability
basically she lost Q damage, Q bounce, Q healing debuff, Q scaling, Q damage steroid(s), E lost damage scaling and cool down, R lost damage was made a shorter duration so it now rewards sloppy play
in exchange she gets a new W with part of the old shunpo damage that is literally only useful for farming
not to mention that she physically loses to every other AP mid now unless she blows her escape mechanism offensively to have any hope of making an equal trade
but owait that same escape mechanism has a 60% increased cooldown from where it was originally
her new ap scalings don't make up for all the nerfs until she has something around 1.1k ap which doesn't realistically happen unless you stack deathcaps
the passive damage from KI alone at rank 5 totaled something like an extra 300 damage on her ult right off the bat, combined with the other nerfs to her ult shes lost about 450 damage to her rank 3 death lotus
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a bit surprised by all the dramatic buffs/nerfs/changes
i kinda thought riot was into the very-small-buffs-or-nerfs stage, not the dramatic overhaul stage.
just from a quick look, teemo and varus are both gonna be pretty bonkers, katarina and garen are BACK, BABY, and rengar is gonna be pretty strong. i like the direction they went with him. unfortunately his terrible splash art will keep him from being a day 1 buy for me. gotta get some good looks at his model first
also, nice app, mugi
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AP kayle still going to be pretty weak, I think I was over reacting on dat buff when it listed on PBE.
NLR is 1600, for 80 ap. Auto attacks only going to add 32 dmg, while BF ads 40, also AD allows for crits (more potential damage).
AP kayle will offer more utility though.
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Kayle buffs are very minimal. I doubt they'll have any impact on her playstyle. AD will still offer so much more damage per point of gold. Kayle doesn't have very good AP ratios compared to her AD ratios anyways, so I doubt she'll be played AP at a competitive level. Her Q has both 1.0 AP and AD ratio, her heal is a pretty shitty 0.35 AP ratio (considering it's mana cost/cd). There's no advantage to building her AP over AD.
Regarding Kat, I honestly think she's just as strong she was or even better. A lot of her damage reduction from pre-patch has been shifted to Q marks and W. If you factor that in, her damage output is the same or higher. Although since her Q damage got hit, she will probably do better in top lane where her W harass is much stronger due to most top laners being melee.
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What really interests me is the Kat remake. As a jungler I wonder if she can be jungled now, with her new W. 
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On August 15 2012 13:46 Ryuu314 wrote:
Kayle buffs are very minimal. I doubt they'll have any impact on her playstyle. AD will still offer so much more damage per point of gold. Kayle doesn't have very good AP ratios compared to her AD ratios anyways, so I doubt she'll be played AP at a competitive level. Her Q has both 1.0 AP and AD ratio, her heal is a pretty shitty 0.35 AP ratio (considering it's mana cost/cd). There's no advantage to building her AP over AD.
Regarding Kat, I honestly think she's just as strong she was or even better. A lot of her damage reduction from pre-patch has been shifted to Q marks and W. If you factor that in, her damage output is the same or higher. Although since her Q damage got hit, she will probably do better in top lane where her W harass is much stronger due to most top laners being melee.
throughout her kit she does a clean 1/3 less damage if you straight up try to kill someone with QEWR vs old WQER
want to stay alive long enough to use your W more often during a fight? well you're kat and i hate to break it to you but that doesn't happen
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People were talking about jungle kat in the other thread. Seems to have the shyvana problem of low sustain/lack of CC.. maybe she'll have fast enough clears to counteract that, but we'll have to try it and see.
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On August 15 2012 13:15 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 12:26 MusicalPulse wrote:Kat got nerfed really hard....really sad about it Farewell old Kat, I've enjoyed you as my main over the years. I don't understand why people think Kat got nerfed... She lost AD ratio and a 20 base damage on Q, lost 0.2 ratio and 50 damage on E. But she gained that back with the whole Q marks with 0.2 ratio and up to 75 damage. Then she gained an entirely new damaging skill that has a ridiculous 4 second base cooldown that does very respectable damage. On top of that, she gets the damage reduction from her old W every cast of E. The loss of health reduction on her Q sucks, but I think the other changes more than makes up for it. Iunno if it's just me but her W looks ridiculous. A free ~375 range harassment spell every 4 seconds with no cdr sounds insane. She might be better top now tho.
Shunpo down to 0.5 is very big, considering it was 0.75. Now finishing with E will be harder as well. Q used to be a finisher, ment to snipe champs that were about to escape. But now the damage has been reduced, and instead it adds a mark, which defeats the purpose of a finisher.
Passive CD is 10 sec now instead of 15, and ult CD is 50. That means you need basically need a kill/assist on everyone to refresh it fully (maybe 4 from cdr), instead of being able to refresh it with 2 + cdr before. And no 25g bonus gold now.
The full bounce from Q now is nice, but this actually makes farming harder. Spamming W, a melee range skill is not viable spam for farming, not even in teamfights. Kat is usually the last one to go into a teamfight, imo this W doesn't fit her at all.
The damage reduction on every E now is cool, but is a flat 20%, where it used to be 15 > 35. If anything, this change is only making Kat stronger early game, and makes her fall off late game. I thought Riot said that they were changing her to make her more viable in games, but this is basically the opposite.
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Early sheen on Kat might be a good idea in lane?
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Also, now the shunpo CD is 14 seconds, and they nerfed the passive to only 10 second refresh. That means no chain shunpos which is basically the signature of Kat during early game. Also kills/assists no longer refresh ult either,
Wait what. Her passive refresh all her basic abilities and reduce the cd on her ult by 10(used to be 15) seconds on kill/assist. I think you read that wrong.
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On August 15 2012 13:52 MusicalPulse wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 13:15 Ryuu314 wrote:On August 15 2012 12:26 MusicalPulse wrote:Kat got nerfed really hard....really sad about it Farewell old Kat, I've enjoyed you as my main over the years. I don't understand why people think Kat got nerfed... She lost AD ratio and a 20 base damage on Q, lost 0.2 ratio and 50 damage on E. But she gained that back with the whole Q marks with 0.2 ratio and up to 75 damage. Then she gained an entirely new damaging skill that has a ridiculous 4 second base cooldown that does very respectable damage. On top of that, she gets the damage reduction from her old W every cast of E. The loss of health reduction on her Q sucks, but I think the other changes more than makes up for it. Iunno if it's just me but her W looks ridiculous. A free ~375 range harassment spell every 4 seconds with no cdr sounds insane. She might be better top now tho. Shunpo down to 0.5 is very big, considering it was 0.75. Now finishing with E will be harder as well. Q used to be a finisher, ment to snipe champs that were about to escape. But now the damage has been reduced, and instead it adds a mark, which defeats the purpose of a finisher. Also, now the shunpo CD is 14 seconds, and they nerfed the passive to only 10 second refresh. That means no chain shunpos which is basically the signature of Kat during early game. Also kills/assists no longer refresh ult either, so that actually affects Kat a lot. And no 25g bonus gold now. The full bounce from Q now is nice, but this actually makes farming harder. Spamming W, a melee range skill is not viable spam for farming, not even in teamfights. Kat is usually the last one to go into a teamfight, imo this W doesn't fit her at all. The damage reduction on every E now is cool, but is a flat 20%, where it used to be 15 > 35. If anything, this change is only making Kat stronger early game, and makes her fall off late game. I thought Riot said that they were changing her to make her more viable in games, but this is basically the opposite.
its funny cause the general opinion is that her early game is shit and the supposed farming buff + slight total ratio buff is supposed to help her late game but in reality it does neither of these things and we are left with a completely useless character that can't even fill the role she had before implementing these changes
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On August 15 2012 13:52 MusicalPulse wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 13:15 Ryuu314 wrote:On August 15 2012 12:26 MusicalPulse wrote:Kat got nerfed really hard....really sad about it Farewell old Kat, I've enjoyed you as my main over the years. I don't understand why people think Kat got nerfed... She lost AD ratio and a 20 base damage on Q, lost 0.2 ratio and 50 damage on E. But she gained that back with the whole Q marks with 0.2 ratio and up to 75 damage. Then she gained an entirely new damaging skill that has a ridiculous 4 second base cooldown that does very respectable damage. On top of that, she gets the damage reduction from her old W every cast of E. The loss of health reduction on her Q sucks, but I think the other changes more than makes up for it. Iunno if it's just me but her W looks ridiculous. A free ~375 range harassment spell every 4 seconds with no cdr sounds insane. She might be better top now tho. Shunpo down to 0.5 is very big, considering it was 0.75. Now finishing with E will be harder as well. Q used to be a finisher, ment to snipe champs that were about to escape. But now the damage has been reduced, and instead it adds a mark, which defeats the purpose of a finisher. Also, now the shunpo CD is 14 seconds, and they nerfed the passive to only 10 second refresh. That means no chain shunpos which is basically the signature of Kat during early game. Also kills/assists no longer refresh ult either, so that actually affects Kat a lot. And no 25g bonus gold now. The full bounce from Q now is nice, but this actually makes farming harder. Spamming W, a melee range skill is not viable spam for farming, not even in teamfights. Kat is usually the last one to go into a teamfight, imo this W doesn't fit her at all. The damage reduction on every E now is cool, but is a flat 20%, where it used to be 15 > 35. If anything, this change is only making Kat stronger early game, and makes her fall off late game. I thought Riot said that they were changing her to make her more viable in games, but this is basically the opposite.
The refresh is for all abilities except the ult now, which is 10s.
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On August 15 2012 13:54 warscythes wrote:Show nested quote +Also, now the shunpo CD is 14 seconds, and they nerfed the passive to only 10 second refresh. That means no chain shunpos which is basically the signature of Kat during early game. Also kills/assists no longer refresh ult either, Wait what. Her passive refresh all her basic abilities and reduce the cd on her ult by 10(used to be 15) seconds on kill/assist. I think you read that wrong.
Ah yeah thanks for the correct.
On August 15 2012 13:55 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 13:52 MusicalPulse wrote:On August 15 2012 13:15 Ryuu314 wrote:On August 15 2012 12:26 MusicalPulse wrote:Kat got nerfed really hard....really sad about it Farewell old Kat, I've enjoyed you as my main over the years. I don't understand why people think Kat got nerfed... She lost AD ratio and a 20 base damage on Q, lost 0.2 ratio and 50 damage on E. But she gained that back with the whole Q marks with 0.2 ratio and up to 75 damage. Then she gained an entirely new damaging skill that has a ridiculous 4 second base cooldown that does very respectable damage. On top of that, she gets the damage reduction from her old W every cast of E. The loss of health reduction on her Q sucks, but I think the other changes more than makes up for it. Iunno if it's just me but her W looks ridiculous. A free ~375 range harassment spell every 4 seconds with no cdr sounds insane. She might be better top now tho. Shunpo down to 0.5 is very big, considering it was 0.75. Now finishing with E will be harder as well. Q used to be a finisher, ment to snipe champs that were about to escape. But now the damage has been reduced, and instead it adds a mark, which defeats the purpose of a finisher. Also, now the shunpo CD is 14 seconds, and they nerfed the passive to only 10 second refresh. That means no chain shunpos which is basically the signature of Kat during early game. Also kills/assists no longer refresh ult either, so that actually affects Kat a lot. And no 25g bonus gold now. The full bounce from Q now is nice, but this actually makes farming harder. Spamming W, a melee range skill is not viable spam for farming, not even in teamfights. Kat is usually the last one to go into a teamfight, imo this W doesn't fit her at all. The damage reduction on every E now is cool, but is a flat 20%, where it used to be 15 > 35. If anything, this change is only making Kat stronger early game, and makes her fall off late game. I thought Riot said that they were changing her to make her more viable in games, but this is basically the opposite. its funny cause the general opinion is that her early game is shit and the supposed farming buff + slight total ratio buff is supposed to help her late game but in reality it does neither of these things and we are left with a completely useless character that can't even fill the role she had before implementing these changes
Yup, used to be bad farm vrs. a good ap carry in mid, and now it's even worse. And somehow late game is worse as well now.
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EPT
