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[Patch 1.0.0.145: Rengar] General Discussion - Page 187

Forum Index > LoL General
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Prev 1 185 186 187 188 189 Next
ViZe
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1513 Posts
August 29 2012 23:12 GMT
#3721
For Ahri I think Zhonya's is a decent first item choice, consider trying it.

Abyssal nerf really bums me out, The item is a support aura item but now it really is only good for tanks who want to deal aoe magic damage like malphite or amumu or the BS characters that people originally liked building it on like Vlad, Kennen, Morde, and Rumble
TheKefka
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Croatia11752 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-29 23:14:15
August 29 2012 23:14 GMT
#3722
Zhonyas is not a good first item on ahri wtf....Zhonyas first is only good on people like morgana and MAYBE kennen because it locks you in your ult enabling you to deal more damage and dive people like an idiot.
Cackle™
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
August 29 2012 23:14 GMT
#3723
On August 30 2012 08:12 ViZe wrote:
For Ahri I think Zhonya's is a decent first item choice, consider trying it.

Abyssal nerf really bums me out, The item is a support aura item but now it really is only good for tanks who want to deal aoe magic damage like malphite or amumu or the BS characters that people originally liked building it on like Vlad, Kennen, Morde, and Rumble

Still gonna be getting it on Eve....

Although I think it's time for me to stop talking about her.
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-29 23:18:09
August 29 2012 23:17 GMT
#3724
On August 30 2012 08:12 ViZe wrote:
For Ahri I think Zhonya's is a decent first item choice, consider trying it.

Abyssal nerf really bums me out, The item is a support aura item but now it really is only good for tanks who want to deal aoe magic damage like malphite or amumu or the BS characters that people originally liked building it on like Vlad, Kennen, Morde, and Rumble


I donno if I really want to build it on Mordekaiser anymore. His ult's range far outranges the new Abyssal scepter. If I really want the MPEN I think I will now consider Haunting Guise. Also Mordekaiser kind of needs Lich Bane anyway, so he can always get some extra MR from a NMM.

The MAIN reason for this Abyssal nerf (I think) is to reduce the tankiness of the mid lane nowadays. The mid lane play is currently very bland; it involves shoving the lane at range, then counterjungle/gank/dragon. The Abyssal nerf is (supposed) to lower mid laners' choices on itemization on MR.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
August 29 2012 23:18 GMT
#3725
On August 30 2012 08:17 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2012 08:12 ViZe wrote:
For Ahri I think Zhonya's is a decent first item choice, consider trying it.

Abyssal nerf really bums me out, The item is a support aura item but now it really is only good for tanks who want to deal aoe magic damage like malphite or amumu or the BS characters that people originally liked building it on like Vlad, Kennen, Morde, and Rumble


I donno if I really want to build it on Mordekaiser anymore. His ult's range far outranges the new Abyssal scepter. If I really want the MPEN I think I will now consider Haunting Guise. Also Mordekaiser kind of needs Lich Bane anyway, so he can always get some extra MR from a NMM.

The MAIN reason for this Abyssal nerf (I think) is to reduce the tankiness of the mid lane nowadays. The mid lane play is currently very bland; it involves shoving the lane at range, then counterjungle/gank/dragon. The Abyssal nerf is (supposed) to lower mid laners' choices on itemization on MR.

who needs his ult when you just run up and make grunting noises, and maces come out of the ground
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
TheKefka
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Croatia11752 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-29 23:22:19
August 29 2012 23:19 GMT
#3726
But see that's exactly the problem,there is no itemization choice on MR for mid lane,there is abyssal and chalice.
If they really think abyssal as an item is a problem,than they should just fucking remove the mr debuff,buff the ap amount you get,leave mr as it is and make a new item with the mr shred.
Cackle™
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
August 29 2012 23:22 GMT
#3727
On August 30 2012 08:19 TheKefka wrote:
But see that's exactly the problem,there is no itemization choice on MR for mid lane,there is abyssal and chalice.


There are a few.

Negatron -> Abyssal Scepter
Negatron -> QSS
Negatron -> Banshee (very situational for Ryze only)
NMM -> Lich Bane
NMM -> Merc
NMM -> Chalice -> Grail
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Vingle
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada86 Posts
August 29 2012 23:24 GMT
#3728
Ugh.

Now Morde's E barely outranges abby aura and ult doesn't work at max range.

I guess they used Ryze's range as the lowest common denominator and said "Hey, let's make the aura range juuuuust below his lowest range spell!".
Protoss is a very funny race.
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
August 29 2012 23:26 GMT
#3729
You know, you still have the option of building Abyssal as a longer-range AP even if you don't necessarily benefit fully from the MR reduction aura. The item is not dead.

Sure it's bit expensive without that effect, but if you need the stronger MR/AP......
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
TheKefka
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Croatia11752 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-29 23:28:19
August 29 2012 23:26 GMT
#3730
Did you ever see anyone in your life build a Qss and banshe(apart from ryze and galio) in mid lane during lane phase?
Fizz TF historically build lich bane in lane yea but nobody else.
Yea people get mercs sometimes but again,not really.
The only mr items that people consistently buy in mid lane is chalice and abyssal.Would it really hurt so much if we had another item?
Cackle™
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
August 29 2012 23:30 GMT
#3731
I guess we're just going to be sitting on negatron cloaks a lot more than we already do, which is kinda comical. I agree that abyssal was shown to be maybe too good of an item, but the way they went about nerfing it was really fucking stupid. They essentially told Galio to go fuck himself.
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17303 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-29 23:33:30
August 29 2012 23:32 GMT
#3732
How is Zhonya's rush gonna be good for Ahri? Either you ult in and get CC'd, in which case you can't Zhonya's anyway, or you ult back in. Moreover, you'll do shit for damage and not even have some utility.

The point of rushing it is to jump in, do some big combo or delayed effect, then jump out. Ahri doesn't do that.
twitch.tv/cratonz
Chiharu Harukaze
Profile Joined September 2011
12112 Posts
August 29 2012 23:33 GMT
#3733
Cheap and easy MRes mid-lane is bad because it means burst casters feel even worse about their existence while sustained damage casters laugh and feel good about running MRes and farm all day.
It's like, "Is the Federation's Mobile Suit some kind of monster?"
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-29 23:34:48
August 29 2012 23:33 GMT
#3734
On August 30 2012 08:26 TheKefka wrote:
Did you ever see anyone in your life build a Qss and banshe(apart from ryze and galio) in mid lane during lane phase?
Fizz TF historically build lich bane in lane yea but nobody else.
Yea people get mercs sometimes but again,not really.
The only mr items that people consistently buy in mid lane is chalice and abyssal.Would it really hurt so much if we had another item?


Building QSS as the second item is a very good choice (imo) in many situations. QSS renders a lot of mid laners ultimates completely useless, such as Fizz, Mordekaiser, Vladimir, Malzahar, as well as making Cassiopeia very miserable. Not to mention this is the go-to item as Skarnar runs wild these days.


On August 30 2012 08:33 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:
Cheap and easy MRes mid-lane is bad because it means burst casters feel even worse about their existence while sustained damage casters laugh and feel good about running MRes and farm all day.


And this, too. Burst casters do need a buff.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-29 23:38:49
August 29 2012 23:36 GMT
#3735
On August 30 2012 08:26 WaveofShadow wrote:
You know, you still have the option of building Abyssal as a longer-range AP even if you don't necessarily benefit fully from the MR reduction aura. The item is not dead.

Sure it's bit expensive without that effect, but if you need the stronger MR/AP......

The only incentive to build the item is the aura. The other individual stat gains aren't worth actually upgrading from Negatron+Blasting Wand for, particularly as every AP has other uses for Blasting Wand.

On August 30 2012 08:33 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:
Cheap and easy MRes mid-lane is bad because it means burst casters feel even worse about their existence while sustained damage casters laugh and feel good about running MRes and farm all day.

Except it's a two-sided coin, because as a flat MPen item, it fits the power curve of burst casters with high base damages better than sustained casters (that typically have a power curve aimed at later points in the game--where flat MPen is a less effective stat).
Moderator
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
August 29 2012 23:39 GMT
#3736
On August 30 2012 08:36 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2012 08:26 WaveofShadow wrote:
You know, you still have the option of building Abyssal as a longer-range AP even if you don't necessarily benefit fully from the MR reduction aura. The item is not dead.

Sure it's bit expensive without that effect, but if you need the stronger MR/AP......

The only incentive to build the item is the aura. The other individual stat gains aren't worth actually upgrading from Negatron+Blasting Wand for, particularly as every AP has other uses for Blasting Wand.

Show nested quote +
On August 30 2012 08:33 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:
Cheap and easy MRes mid-lane is bad because it means burst casters feel even worse about their existence while sustained damage casters laugh and feel good about running MRes and farm all day.

Except it's a two-sided coin, because as a flat MPen item, it fits the power curve of burst casters with high base damages better than sustained casters (that typically have a power curve aimed at later points in the game--where flat MPen is a less effective stat).

Holy shit Yango!
10k?!
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
TheKefka
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Croatia11752 Posts
August 29 2012 23:40 GMT
#3737
On August 30 2012 08:33 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:
Cheap and easy MRes mid-lane is bad because it means burst casters feel even worse about their existence while sustained damage casters laugh and feel good about running MRes and farm all day.

I don't see what's wrong about this,if you build mr you can't be killed and in return you'll have a hard time killing your opponent.We see much more roam this way and plays being made in other lanes.
I personally see no fun in watching Kassadin and leblanc trying to see who can one shot the other guy first.
Cackle™
Chiharu Harukaze
Profile Joined September 2011
12112 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-29 23:45:31
August 29 2012 23:43 GMT
#3738
On August 30 2012 08:36 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2012 08:33 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:
Cheap and easy MRes mid-lane is bad because it means burst casters feel even worse about their existence while sustained damage casters laugh and feel good about running MRes and farm all day.

Except it's a two-sided coin, because as a flat MPen item, it fits the power curve of burst casters with high base damages better than sustained casters (that typically have a power curve aimed at later points in the game--where flat MPen is a less effective stat).

The problem though is that when everyone feels like getting Abyssal because it's so cost-efficient and useful, overall its worse off for the burst casters because the MRes gain is greater than the MRes reduction aura. The range reduction should still mean most burst casters can get the effect of the aura but it's not an immediate "must buy" item on everyone. Although I think 600 range might be a bit low. 650 would have been nicer.

On August 30 2012 08:40 TheKefka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2012 08:33 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:
Cheap and easy MRes mid-lane is bad because it means burst casters feel even worse about their existence while sustained damage casters laugh and feel good about running MRes and farm all day.

I don't see what's wrong about this,if you build mr you can't be killed and in return you'll have a hard time killing your opponent.We see much more roam this way and plays being made in other lanes.
I personally see no fun in watching Kassadin and leblanc trying to see who can one shot the other guy first.

Except the current version of Abyssal offers a great itemisation pathway to countering burst casters in lane and at the same time when you complete it your immediate increase in damage is comparable to a DCap rush for most casters iirc.
It's like, "Is the Federation's Mobile Suit some kind of monster?"
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
August 29 2012 23:43 GMT
#3739
Oh I almost forgot. The Abyssal nerf hurts Galio a lot too.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
ViZe
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1513 Posts
August 29 2012 23:44 GMT
#3740
I'd watch that over the farm all day lanes that have become the norm
Prev 1 185 186 187 188 189 Next
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