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On August 30 2012 06:27 Requizen wrote:
K, serious question time. What do you do when you're behind in laning phase, either from being camped, a bad matchup, or just being outplayed? Two examples:
I had a game last night where I got killed twice early. Once from a jungle gank, the next from just a bad engagement. After that point, I was way behind on farm and he had the kills and another from a bad jungler who came up and died.
Another game, I was Nunu vs a Rumble, a pretty difficult matchup for most people from what I hear. He just pushed, harassed, and was generally just an asshole like Rumble is as a champion. He got two kills on me because I thought I was stronger than I really was, and then snowballed that.
Both times, I ended up admittedly feeding because I kept trying to get farm, and every time I stepped away from tower they just killed me. However, just sitting under tower getting no gold or experience makes me useless. What is the correct thing to do besides "get farm but die a bunch" or "sit back and be 4 levels and 50 CS behind"? Should I be roaming to try and gank another lane, take my jungle, or what?
Keep in mind this is solo queue, so you can't really count on the jungler coming up to help you get caught back up with ganks.
Ward and farm. Try to take as little damage as possible. If the matchup is really, really bad then just keep leveling Q until you can sustain yourself better. Taking mini gols/wolves isn't too bad of an idea. If anything, 3 man ganking mid with your jungle is also an option. Just try not to take risks in general imo.
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On August 30 2012 06:05 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 05:21 cLutZ wrote:On August 30 2012 04:17 kainzero wrote:
was AP janna really so one-sided that it needed a zephyr nerf to bring it in line with the rest of the AP champs?
i didn't play in the AP soraka/lulu everywhere days so i can't comment on that.
the alistar nerfs make sense because his jungling was really good. not because they want to shoehorn him into support. I still don't think the Janna or Soraka Nerfs (except the heal armor one) were warranted. Lulu yes, but she was overtuned like nearly every release champ these days. The problem with the Ali nerfs is they didn't nerf the problems with his jungle (gank city). They just made his already terrible farming even worse. Soraka's nerfs were largely centered around killing her ability to sustain infinitely without thought. It was a problem both with Soraka mid and Soraka support unless she went overboard with Q spam. You'll note that they adjusted her mana costs when she lost her personal mana battery. Ultimately you don't see Soraka mid these days not because of those nerfs, but because she's bad at roaming. They nerfed Zephyr because you got more than half the passive's worth with 1 rank, and between that and her passive she had, by default, more movespeed% at level1-2 than someone who stacked Movespeed Quints and masteries. The AP ratio nerf was for essentially the same reason as the Glitterlance nerfs, it was too good of a harass tool (especially combined with Q) once you started getting AP. You really shouldn't be farming as Alistar anyway, but the Trample nerf was pretty minimal (9 damage per ability use). The only other nerf relevant to jungling was the Headbutt damage change which, while insufficient, wasn't a bad idea. The PBE Headbutt range change may be more to your liking
The HB Range nerf is just as huge a nerf to Ali Support as Ali Jungle. It does nerf his ganks, I suppose.
More to my liking would be Riot not nerfing my favorite champs (Janna and Ali).
Edit:
Just, it doesn't make sense in general to me why Sup Champs as non-supports is a bad thing when AD Carries are basically irrelevant unless they have a dash in the current meta. Some peel on Mids/Jungles/Tops would really re-open up Kog etc.
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On August 30 2012 06:52 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 06:05 Seuss wrote:On August 30 2012 05:21 cLutZ wrote:On August 30 2012 04:17 kainzero wrote:
was AP janna really so one-sided that it needed a zephyr nerf to bring it in line with the rest of the AP champs?
i didn't play in the AP soraka/lulu everywhere days so i can't comment on that.
the alistar nerfs make sense because his jungling was really good. not because they want to shoehorn him into support. I still don't think the Janna or Soraka Nerfs (except the heal armor one) were warranted. Lulu yes, but she was overtuned like nearly every release champ these days. The problem with the Ali nerfs is they didn't nerf the problems with his jungle (gank city). They just made his already terrible farming even worse. Soraka's nerfs were largely centered around killing her ability to sustain infinitely without thought. It was a problem both with Soraka mid and Soraka support unless she went overboard with Q spam. You'll note that they adjusted her mana costs when she lost her personal mana battery. Ultimately you don't see Soraka mid these days not because of those nerfs, but because she's bad at roaming. They nerfed Zephyr because you got more than half the passive's worth with 1 rank, and between that and her passive she had, by default, more movespeed% at level1-2 than someone who stacked Movespeed Quints and masteries. The AP ratio nerf was for essentially the same reason as the Glitterlance nerfs, it was too good of a harass tool (especially combined with Q) once you started getting AP. You really shouldn't be farming as Alistar anyway, but the Trample nerf was pretty minimal (9 damage per ability use). The only other nerf relevant to jungling was the Headbutt damage change which, while insufficient, wasn't a bad idea. The PBE Headbutt range change may be more to your liking The HB Range nerf is just as huge a nerf to Ali Support as Ali Jungle. It does nerf his ganks, I suppose. More to my liking would be Riot not nerfing my favorite champs (Janna and Ali).
maybe he'll be off perma ban status so i can get some free elo
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HB nerf won't change shit about why he's constantly banned.The problem is that there are no adjustments you could make to his skill set to fix the problem around him as a jungler.
He get's lvl 2,comes from behind and backstabs you.It's not even a problem as much as it's fucking annoying and that's why hes permbaned.No one want's to play scared for the majority of early game mid and top,it's just not fun.Even when you get wards,he dings 6 and has the potential to just tower dive you on ult cd.
He's also the only one that can sit there in the brush and literally camp you for ever until you poke your head out.
Lee and shaco for instance are annoying yea,but they suffer from camping if they don't get a kill from it.
Alistar doesn't give 2 fucks about it.A lvl 6 alistar with no items what so ever is useful and that's the absurd thing about him.
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On August 30 2012 06:51 wussleeQ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 06:27 Requizen wrote:
K, serious question time. What do you do when you're behind in laning phase, either from being camped, a bad matchup, or just being outplayed? Two examples:
I had a game last night where I got killed twice early. Once from a jungle gank, the next from just a bad engagement. After that point, I was way behind on farm and he had the kills and another from a bad jungler who came up and died.
Another game, I was Nunu vs a Rumble, a pretty difficult matchup for most people from what I hear. He just pushed, harassed, and was generally just an asshole like Rumble is as a champion. He got two kills on me because I thought I was stronger than I really was, and then snowballed that.
Both times, I ended up admittedly feeding because I kept trying to get farm, and every time I stepped away from tower they just killed me. However, just sitting under tower getting no gold or experience makes me useless. What is the correct thing to do besides "get farm but die a bunch" or "sit back and be 4 levels and 50 CS behind"? Should I be roaming to try and gank another lane, take my jungle, or what?
Keep in mind this is solo queue, so you can't really count on the jungler coming up to help you get caught back up with ganks. Ward and farm. Try to take as little damage as possible. If the matchup is really, really bad then just keep leveling Q until you can sustain yourself better. Taking mini gols/wolves isn't too bad of an idea. If anything, 3 man ganking mid with your jungle is also an option. Just try not to take risks in general imo.
Well, not Nunu specifically, I mean in general what to do when you're really behind and don't want to snowball your opponent.
My other game was Jax, so maxing a sustain ability wasn't really an option, neither was farming from a range or anything. Xin zoned me out with early ganks and Nunu going up and giving him kills. Past that point, he just had enough items/health/damage/what have you to kill me if I wasn't under my tower, and he knew how to freeze the lane. What should I have done? Stepping out was about pure death, my jungler wasn't/couldn't help me, there had to have been something I could have done other than dying.
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On August 30 2012 06:52 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 06:05 Seuss wrote:On August 30 2012 05:21 cLutZ wrote:On August 30 2012 04:17 kainzero wrote:
was AP janna really so one-sided that it needed a zephyr nerf to bring it in line with the rest of the AP champs?
i didn't play in the AP soraka/lulu everywhere days so i can't comment on that.
the alistar nerfs make sense because his jungling was really good. not because they want to shoehorn him into support. I still don't think the Janna or Soraka Nerfs (except the heal armor one) were warranted. Lulu yes, but she was overtuned like nearly every release champ these days. The problem with the Ali nerfs is they didn't nerf the problems with his jungle (gank city). They just made his already terrible farming even worse. Soraka's nerfs were largely centered around killing her ability to sustain infinitely without thought. It was a problem both with Soraka mid and Soraka support unless she went overboard with Q spam. You'll note that they adjusted her mana costs when she lost her personal mana battery. Ultimately you don't see Soraka mid these days not because of those nerfs, but because she's bad at roaming. They nerfed Zephyr because you got more than half the passive's worth with 1 rank, and between that and her passive she had, by default, more movespeed% at level1-2 than someone who stacked Movespeed Quints and masteries. The AP ratio nerf was for essentially the same reason as the Glitterlance nerfs, it was too good of a harass tool (especially combined with Q) once you started getting AP. You really shouldn't be farming as Alistar anyway, but the Trample nerf was pretty minimal (9 damage per ability use). The only other nerf relevant to jungling was the Headbutt damage change which, while insufficient, wasn't a bad idea. The PBE Headbutt range change may be more to your liking The HB Range nerf is just as huge a nerf to Ali Support as Ali Jungle. It does nerf his ganks, I suppose. More to my liking would be Riot not nerfing my favorite champs (Janna and Ali). Edit: Just, it doesn't make sense in general to me why Sup Champs as non-supports is a bad thing when AD Carries are basically irrelevant unless they have a dash in the current meta. Some peel on Mids/Jungles/Tops would really re-open up Kog etc.
Support in solo lanes aren't a bad thing, they just aren't something you see in solo queue because you're relying heavily on someone else in order to win later in the game.
It's the same with peel on your solos/junglers. There are plenty of peeling junglers, Maokai in particular is amazing (that ult), but people tend to avoid them in solo queue because no one likes peeling for teammates who are 1-5-0 15 minutes into the game.
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If you look at most normal AP characters, 0.6 AP ratio for a medium-short CD point-and click nuke is pretty much the gold standard. 0.8 that Janna had before was uncommonly high, so basically they're just saying that just because you have fewer nukes doesn't mean you get exceptionally high ratios on the nukes you do have.
AP janna still has outstanding utility on the rest of her kit which scales pretty well with AP ratios - very good scaling on the shield mitigation and the ulti healing, so I think we'll still see AP jannas situationally on protect-the-carry or other comps that can afford to run a low damage high utility AP character.
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Dem patch notes
+ Show Spoiler +PvP.net 1.66
You can now disable notifications by using the new “Notification Suppression” feature in the Options menu
League of Legends v1.0.0.146
Akali
Mark of the Assassin
Fixed: Now correctly grants the Energy return when the target is killed by the magic damage from her passive
Alistar
General
Base Movement Speed reduced to 300 from 305
Headbutt
Cast range reduced to 600 from 650
Corki
Hextech Shrapnel Shells
No longer benefits from critical strikes
Valkyrie
Cooldown increased to 26/23/20/17/14 seconds from 20/18/16/14/12
Missile Barrage
Charge time for missiles increased to 12 seconds from 10
Diana
General
Base Health Regen reduced to 7 from 10
Updated model and splash art for Dark Valkyrie Diana
Crescent Strike
Damage reduced to 70/110/150/190/230 from 80/125/170/215/260
Ability Power ratio reduced to 0.7 from 0.8
Pale Cascade
Damage per orb reduced to 20/34/48/62/76 from 20/36/52/68/84
Lunar Rush
Cooldown increased to 25/20/15 seconds from 20/16/12
Evelynn
Shadow Walk
Detection radius reduced to 700 from 750
Hate Spike
Mana cost reduced to 14/18/22/26/30 from 19/23/27/31/35
Dark Frenzy
While active, Evelynn now ignores unit collision
Cooldown reduced to 15 seconds from 20
Ravage
Cast range increased to 225 from 185
Agony's Embrace
Cooldown reduced to 120/90/60 seconds from 120/100/80
Ezreal
Mystic Shot
Mana cost reduced to 28/31/34/37/40 from 30/35/40/45/50
Essence Flux
Damage reduced to 70/115/160/205/250 from 80/130/180/230/280
Ability Power ratio increased to 0.8 from 0.6
Width reduced to 80 from 120
Gragas
Body Slam
Charge speed reduced to 900 from 1050
Mana cost increased to 75 from 50
Explosive Cask
Cooldown increased to 100/90/80 seconds from 90/75/60
Graves
General
Base Attack Speed reduced to 0.625 from 0.638
Quickdraw
Attack Speed reduced to 30/40/50/60/70% from 40/50/60/70/80%
Jarvan IV
Demacian Standard
When targeting a location outside of Demacian Standard’s range, Demacian Standard will now be cast at its maximum range in the direction of the targeted location
Karthus
Wall of Pain
No longer reduces Armor
Magic Resist reduction adjusted to 15% instead of flat 15/20/25/30/35
Katarina
Voracity
Cooldown reduction on kill or assist increased to 15 seconds from 10 seconds
Bouncing Blade
Base damage increased to 60/95/130/165/200 from 50/85/120/155/190
Ability Power Ratio decreased to 0.45 from 0.5
Mark detonation Ability Power ratio reduced to 0.15 from 0.2
Sinister Steel
Ability Power Ratio decreased to 0.25 from 0.3
Shunpo
Damage increased to 60/85/110/135/160 from 40/70/100/130/160
Cooldown reduced to 12/10.5/9/7.5/6 from 14/12/10/8/6
Fixed: Tooltip now states the correct Damage Reduction amount (15%, not 20%)
Mordekaiser
Increased the size of his model
Nunu
Ice Blast
Slow duration reduced to 3 seconds from 4
Rengar
Unseen Predator
Now leaps directly on top of the target instead of slightly behind them
Bola Strike
Fixed: Bola Strike will no longer fail to cast
Shen
Shadow Dash
Cooldown increased to 16/14/12/10/8 seconds from 10/9.5/9/8.5/8
Teemo
Toxic Shot
Fixed: Poison damage now works correctly at higher Attack Speeds
Twitch
Expunge
Base damage increased to 40/50/60/70/80 from 20/35/50/65/80
Mana cost reduced to 50/60/70/80/90 from 70/75/80/85/90
Spray and Pray
Reduced cast frame to make his attacks more responsive
Warwick
Fixed: Warwick's passive now has a buff icon, and will work properly on consecutive hits
Items
Abyssal Scepter
Aura range reduced to 600 from 1000
The following items will now display a targeting indicator to show whether you are placing a ward inside of a bush: Wriggle's Lantern, Vision Ward, and Sight Ward
The following items will now display their cooldown on the item itself, rather than with a buff: Maw of Malmortius, Hexdrinker, Banshee's Veil, Guardian Angel, Sheen, Lichbane, Trinity Force, Tear of the Goddess, Archangel's Staff, and Manamune
Fixed: Wards no longer list that they have 20 Attack Damage
With every patch, we strive to improve the look of the game in varying degrees. We recommend that you have the latest available video card drivers installed.
And dem gragas nerfs... 
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Hi I was just wondering if anyone can give me a list of the best runes IN GENERAL for AP carries IN GENERAL, AD carry runes, IN GENERAL, and Jungle runes, IN GENERAL, NOT FOR ANY SPECIFIC CHAMPIONS
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That's a pretty huge range nerf on abyssal huh.
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The following items will now display a targeting indicator to show whether you are placing a ward inside of a bush: Wriggle's Lantern, Vision Ward, and Sight Ward
Nifty.
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"Fixed: Wards no longer list that they have 20 Attack Damage"
Atleast they finally nerfed wards
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On August 30 2012 07:15 TheShadowPlayer1 wrote:
Hi I was just wondering if anyone can give me a list of the best runes IN GENERAL for AP carries IN GENERAL, AD carry runes, IN GENERAL, and Jungle runes, IN GENERAL, NOT FOR ANY SPECIFIC CHAMPIONS
AP: AP quints, Mpen reds, mana regen/lvl yellows, flat MR blues
AD carry runes: AD quints, AD reds, flat armor yellows, flat MR blues
Jungle Rules: Movespeed quints, Flat Atkspd reds, flat armor yellow, MR/lvl blues.
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Dat J4 QOL change is quite nice, sometimes when you combo QE too fast you go nowhere
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On August 30 2012 07:15 TheKefka wrote:
That's a pretty huge range nerf on abyssal huh.
Yeah, IMO that's not a great nerf to be putting in. I get that you want it to be in the middle of the enemy team, and with 1000 range it was more like "well anywhere you are you get it" but they reduced the area by TWO THIRDS. If you saw the patch spotlight or w/e, that new circle is fucking tiny. Maybe reducing radius by 200, but by 400? Really?
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On August 30 2012 07:15 TheShadowPlayer1 wrote:
Hi I was just wondering if anyone can give me a list of the best runes IN GENERAL for AP carries IN GENERAL, AD carry runes, IN GENERAL, and Jungle runes, IN GENERAL, NOT FOR ANY SPECIFIC CHAMPIONS
That is something that gets asked in every single GD thread here. Also, it is pretty annoying to treat everyone as if they are stupid.
AD carry: AD or ArP red, armor yellow, AD quints, and usually MR blues. Sometimes scaling, usually not.
AP carry: Mpen Red, AP quints, MR blues, some yellows (usually either armor, scaling hp or manareg).
Jungle: There is not one specific set, but if i were to design one set that works best with a lot of junglers, it would be
AS Red, MS quints, Armor yellows, scaling MR blues.
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Rengar might not be so completely infuriating to play now that his E doesn't constantly fail.
Twitch buffs. I think Moonbear's comments regarding his rework are pertinent, he's probably going to murder the life out of everything when people figure him out.
On August 30 2012 07:26 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 07:15 TheKefka wrote:
That's a pretty huge range nerf on abyssal huh. Yeah, IMO that's not a great nerf to be putting in. I get that you want it to be in the middle of the enemy team, and with 1000 range it was more like "well anywhere you are you get it" but they reduced the area by TWO THIRDS. If you saw the patch spotlight or w/e, that new circle is fucking tiny. Maybe reducing radius by 200, but by 400? Really?
It's a buff for when you're bush-camping or prepping to gank!
I'm half-serious.
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Here we go again with runes.
If you have two pages, go arp reds on one, mpen reds on the other. Flat armor on both, flat MR on both, movement speed quints on both. You can run anything with those two sets. You can also do AD quints, but that's meh on several champs you'll use that page for. HP5 quints are also an option.
With a third page you can opt for GP10 quints for a support page, a specialized laning page (i.e. stack armor/mr), or a more jungler-centric page (opt away from arp toward attack speed / AD).
There ain't one "best" general page.
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I'm a bit confused by those nerfs to Kat's ratios.
Was she too strong? Are those nerfs just tiny reductions meant to drive away the solo queuers?
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I'd just also add that Lifesteal or Spellvamp quints are pretty nice quints for any champ, albeit some more than others. HP5 might get you a little more early on, but the lifesteal/spellvamp quints will carry better into the later stages. And some champs just need all the lifesteal and spellvamp they can get, and they're not easy stats to itemize for.
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EPT
