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On August 23 2012 04:36 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 04:30 Sufficiency wrote:On August 23 2012 04:25 barbsq wrote:On August 23 2012 04:00 Wolfstan wrote:
Funnily enough, I feel that Riven is the poster child for a well designed champion. Riven being my main,her kit is incredibly flexible that I have different build paths based upon fun interactions with my lane opponent(s), junglers, lane minions and tower pushing. I have hit lvl 9 with 5-1-2-1, 2-3-3-1, or any combination of q-w-e-r. Other than BT-GA core, i've gotten multiple dorans, wriggles, hex, ninja tabi, merc treads, LW and multi BTs.
I really hope their philosophy doesn't put riven into GG at character select category. Or rigid R>Q>E>W skill builds. Locking in boring flowchart item progression isn't stylistically fun for me either. I enjoy the relationships with many top lane champs she has where there are lvl and item build timings that open and close too. It scares the shit out of me when riot hints that they want to stray away from the (IMO)holy grail of champion design. i'm sorry, but i have to disagree with you there. 1.0 AD scaling shield on a champion that gets %AD bonus coupled with an AD scaling bonus AD passive and 0 mana costs and low cooldowns seems like poor design choice to me. It doesn't take long for there to just be no incentive to actually manage anything on her at all. I think her E's ratio is fine. Comparably, a lot of AP champions have shields with high AP ratio (Janna, Karma, etc.), AP is cheaper than AD (and there is death cap), and CDR is easier to itemize for AP (DFG, Morello's). No one complains about AP Janna being broken, right? The reason is that even though AP Janna has a strong shield her other spells are not that great. The problem with Riven is that she has in combination of two gap closers, one stun, one self-buff ultimate that doubles as an execute, and that passive of hers. except that riven's shield costs no mana. And janna's shield is a flat 10 seconds, riven's shield starts at 10 and goes down to 6. (also there are a number of ppl who complain about AP janna, for slightly different reasons tho, 1 of which being her retarded waveclear+poke with tornado. edit: i also think i'm starting to see why you think janna has such a poor laning phase)
And that she has no mana. Sorry I forgot to mention this...
So the problem with AP Janna is that her auto is very short, her Q cannot reasonably clear ranged minions until rank 4 (before that you have to auto to finish them, but her auto is too short and she will get punished), and her Q's base damage without charge is abysmal so she can't really trade. She has a pretty terrible time laning until around 7-9, which is a bit late. Why not play Morgana who can clear at level 5?
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Yeah that's true, although I use my ult so sparingly as Riven because I'm used to having champs that have actual cooldowns
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Korean teams exist to seperate those that are not talented/skilled/dedicated enough, from those wannabe non-serious players. Look at SCII. Those who don't have enough talent, or dedication are shit. Only those that take the game seriously can compete with the koreans.
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What do you do whenever you play a typical "ganking support jungler" (Maokai, Nautilus, etc.) and the main threat on the opposing team is a magic damage champ?
I tend to go for aegis or shurelya as first item if there is no clear "winner", or glacial shroud if it's a physical damage champ, which is fine as I get cdr. But I never know what to buy (can't rush FoN, NMM a bit low on MR and you can't take 2 as you're often cramped in slots). Neg is fine but I feel dissatisfied buying that and sitting on it while I struggle to get my cdr going.
Maybe I should swap my scaling MR for flat MR runes on my jungle pages, just in case. :/
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On August 23 2012 06:25 Alaric wrote:
What do you do whenever you play a typical "ganking support jungler" (Maokai, Nautilus, etc.) and the main threat on the opposing team is a magic damage champ?
I tend to go for aegis or shurelya as first item if there is no clear "winner", or glacial shroud if it's a physical damage champ, which is fine as I get cdr. But I never know what to buy (can't rush FoN, NMM a bit low on MR and you can't take 2 as you're often cramped in slots). Neg is fine but I feel dissatisfied buying that and sitting on it while I struggle to get my cdr going.
Maybe I should swap my scaling MR for flat MR runes on my jungle pages, just in case. :/
Merc's, aegis, and abyssal are cool
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On August 23 2012 06:25 Alaric wrote:
What do you do whenever you play a typical "ganking support jungler" (Maokai, Nautilus, etc.) and the main threat on the opposing team is a magic damage champ?
I tend to go for aegis or shurelya as first item if there is no clear "winner", or glacial shroud if it's a physical damage champ, which is fine as I get cdr. But I never know what to buy (can't rush FoN, NMM a bit low on MR and you can't take 2 as you're often cramped in slots). Neg is fine but I feel dissatisfied buying that and sitting on it while I struggle to get my cdr going.
Maybe I should swap my scaling MR for flat MR runes on my jungle pages, just in case. :/
Why don't you just get Mercs? Abyssal is pretty good on a couple of those guys too...
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I usually run Flat MR as it is.
Depending on the champ, look at Wit's for a choice in MR. I build it a lot for Skarner, Naut, and Shy. Aegis is still a good buy, because you can get a quick Ruby and NMM to survive AP damage until you can get a big ticket MR item.
If Merc's/Aegis/Wit's still isn't enough into late game, there might be not much you can do about it aside from building a Negatron and focusing that AP.
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Dunno, I went mercs, but since that Cass already had two kills I felt like as Nautilus if I tried to catch her I'd melt, despite my shield.
Seeing as they had Mundo, WW, Janna, Cass and Kog and we had Olaf I was going to build more tanky peeler and let Olaf dive after my initiation anyway, so I didn't plan on getting wit's.
I guess I should try skipping pots and using the slot for another NMM, then use them for Aegis/Wit's (I was planning on Abyssal but our AP Yi rushed it).
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On August 23 2012 05:51 Dusty wrote:
I get that Riven's ult is really low cooldown lategame but I honestly dont see a practical situation where it's useful except for clearing large wave late game or something.
are you trolling right now
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On August 23 2012 06:25 Alaric wrote:
What do you do whenever you play a typical "ganking support jungler" (Maokai, Nautilus, etc.) and the main threat on the opposing team is a magic damage champ?
I tend to go for aegis or shurelya as first item if there is no clear "winner", or glacial shroud if it's a physical damage champ, which is fine as I get cdr. But I never know what to buy (can't rush FoN, NMM a bit low on MR and you can't take 2 as you're often cramped in slots). Neg is fine but I feel dissatisfied buying that and sitting on it while I struggle to get my cdr going.
Maybe I should swap my scaling MR for flat MR runes on my jungle pages, just in case. :/
Learn to love sitting on a Negatron Cloak. CDR is worthless if you get blown up by the enemy AP before reaching a second round of abilities.
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fknoobs. Some1 quote me so I can go on with my second favorite topic. Koreans. First favorite is obviously masturbation. JK it's ME!
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On August 23 2012 06:35 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 06:25 Alaric wrote:
What do you do whenever you play a typical "ganking support jungler" (Maokai, Nautilus, etc.) and the main threat on the opposing team is a magic damage champ?
I tend to go for aegis or shurelya as first item if there is no clear "winner", or glacial shroud if it's a physical damage champ, which is fine as I get cdr. But I never know what to buy (can't rush FoN, NMM a bit low on MR and you can't take 2 as you're often cramped in slots). Neg is fine but I feel dissatisfied buying that and sitting on it while I struggle to get my cdr going.
Maybe I should swap my scaling MR for flat MR runes on my jungle pages, just in case. :/ Learn to love sitting on a Negatron Cloak. CDR is worthless if you get blown up by the enemy AP before reaching a second round of abilities.
But... but... MR isn't killing power!
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United States47024 Posts
Spirit Visage is still pretty under-bought.
I know Lilballz often gets Visage even on junglers that don't directly benefit from the +% healing. He got it on Nautilus at NGF a few months back. While that might be quite an extreme example to follow, there are still quite a few junglers that DO benefit from the Visage +% healing that it ought to be more common on.
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queued against neoillusions
god have mercy on my soul
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Wits End is one of the highest value/gold items in the game, providing attack speed, on-hit damage, and tons of MR. Most junglers can do pretty well with it, since on-hit works really well for hybrid tank/damage.
Though I only play adc/support, so what do I know (nothing!)
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On August 23 2012 06:58 Conversion wrote:
queued against neoillusions
god have mercy on my soul
Every game I have played with Neo he's been a feeder. Don't worry.
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On August 23 2012 06:52 TheYango wrote:
Spirit Visage is still pretty under-bought.
I know Lilballz often gets Visage even on junglers that don't directly benefit from the +% healing. He got it on Nautilus at NGF a few months back. While that might be quite an extreme example to follow, there are still quite a few junglers that DO benefit from the Visage +% healing that it ought to be more common on.
Well since CDR is TL LoL's favorite stat recently for some reason, I can see it.
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The real allure of top lane is that once in a blue moon time where you smash your opponent so hard you get their inhib tower by 20 minutes and their team can't do anything about it. Occurred to me twice at 1500 elo, once on each end.
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On August 23 2012 06:52 TheYango wrote:
Spirit Visage is still pretty under-bought.
I know Lilballz often gets Visage even on junglers that don't directly benefit from the +% healing. He got it on Nautilus at NGF a few months back. While that might be quite an extreme example to follow, there are still quite a few junglers that DO benefit from the Visage +% healing that it ought to be more common on.
I think it's largely the fault of Shurelya's and Aegis. Most of the junglers in a position to consider Spirit Visage will already have a Philosopher's Stone. That being the case, finishing Shurelya's (or waiting to finish it later) is a more obvious choice. Similarly if you have a Mantle using it for Aegis or Merc's is a more obvious choice. Both arguably have more value to the team as well.
70 Health, 6 MR, ~4 hp5, and ~3mp5 is technically worth more than the 300g combine cost, but it's not a particularly compelling array of stats.
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On August 23 2012 07:09 Feartheguru wrote:
The real allure of top lane is that once in a blue moon time where you smash your opponent so hard you get their inhib tower by 20 minutes and their team can't do anything about it. Occurred to me twice at 1500 elo, once on each end.
I played top nunu. By 15 minutes there were 2 afk on the other team.
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EPT
