[Patch 1.0.0.145: Rengar] General Discussion - Page 108

On August 23 2012 03:27 sylverfyre wrote:
Caitlyn in particular loves taking towers early. It just requires different follow-up play than the typcial "make lane phase last as long as possible" play, where you're leaving the tower alive.

Things you can do to follow it up:

Warding the buffcamp and other entrances to your third of the map (it's the second-turret equivalent of a tribush ward) and other deep wards, and with this vision you can do all sorts of things:
- Take small jungle camps to fill in the lanefarm you might be passing up (theirs or yours, depending on safety)
- roam mid and put some damage on their mid turret
- secure an early dragon and even more teamwide gold, etc because you're leaving their bot lane very far from dragon when you shove
- help steal red/bluebuff with your ward & map control

If/When they inevitably push the lane back, you can also freeze their extra-large creepwave near your turret and force them to basically play their lane phase with no turret to escape to - opening them up to all sorts of aggressive play against an opponent who is more fed than they are.

Freeze lane and tell your support to roam (you're relatively safe since they have to extend so far if they want to do anything aggressive to you 1v2

On August 23 2012 03:36 sylverfyre wrote:
Against a level 2 ganker you HAVE to let your lane push up and give up thoughts of early aggression, even on Riven. There's just no other option, getting some slightly advantageous early trades is NOT worth a 100% guaranteed death if the jungler is in that bush. If you don't last hit at 1, the lane WILL push your direction, unless they also don't last hit. Chill at the back end of the bush for a bit, if they also aren't touching the wave at all you know something fishy is going on.

On August 23 2012 03:25 iCanada wrote:


Yeah, I've always found this argument ridiculous.

I'd say Hockey is a much more mechanically difficult game than Soccer for example, but that doesn't mean hockey is the defacto better sport.

On August 23 2012 03:44 Phrost wrote:


It is. I actually can't stand to watch most sports but hockey is devoid of a lot of the downtimes that annoy me (loads of time outs, loads of time between action, etc)

On August 23 2012 03:18 Requizen wrote:
Ok, random question time from a game last night. We got a good gank from Udyr as Zil/Cait bot, killing both Ez and Panth. Udyr proceeds to push the lane, ping the tower, and we kill it at 5 minutes into the game. I tried to convince them otherwise, but whatever. I was ok since I got FB and an assist, and had higher farm as it was. So two parts:

1) Is this ever a good idea, to take out the tower that early into the game? If so, what circumstances?

2) What should I have done? I did a bit of farming, but they just let it push past the river and it got a bit difficult to watch out for the jungler. I ended up roaming and taking jungle camps.

On August 23 2012 03:40 Deltablazy wrote:

And what's stopping the enemy laner from harrassing you while you let him push, and have the enemy jungler gank from your jungle?

Im saying all these extreme situations which dont always happen, but are exactly the cases that occur when a riven loses her lane./

On August 23 2012 03:50 Feartheguru wrote:


Yes do it, then go mid and take that tower too.

On August 23 2012 04:00 Wolfstan wrote:
Funnily enough, I feel that Riven is the poster child for a well designed champion. Riven being my main,her kit is incredibly flexible that I have different build paths based upon fun interactions with my lane opponent(s), junglers, lane minions and tower pushing. I have hit lvl 9 with 5-1-2-1, 2-3-3-1, or any combination of q-w-e-r. Other than BT-GA core, i've gotten multiple dorans, wriggles, hex, ninja tabi, merc treads, LW and multi BTs.

I really hope their philosophy doesn't put riven into GG at character select category. Or rigid R>Q>E>W skill builds. Locking in boring flowchart item progression isn't stylistically fun for me either. I enjoy the relationships with many top lane champs she has where there are lvl and item build timings that open and close too. It scares the shit out of me when riot hints that they want to stray away from the (IMO)holy grail of champion design.

On August 23 2012 04:25 barbsq wrote:

i'm sorry, but i have to disagree with you there. 1.0 AD scaling shield on a champion that gets %AD bonus coupled with an AD scaling bonus AD passive and 0 mana costs and low cooldowns seems like poor design choice to me. It doesn't take long for there to just be no incentive to actually manage anything on her at all.

On August 23 2012 04:30 Sufficiency wrote:


I think her E's ratio is fine. Comparably, a lot of AP champions have shields with high AP ratio (Janna, Karma, etc.), AP is cheaper than AD (and there is death cap), and CDR is easier to itemize for AP (DFG, Morello's). No one complains about AP Janna being broken, right? The reason is that even though AP Janna has a strong shield her other spells are not that great.

The problem with Riven is that she has in combination of two gap closers, one stun, one self-buff ultimate that doubles as an execute, and that passive of hers.

On August 23 2012 04:32 obesechicken13 wrote:
For the talks top. Maybe they'll just buff minion damage so it's harder to be able to get too far ahead you can bully your lane opponent off minions, or the aggressor will now be the only one who draws minion aggro. Or maybe they'll make it so if a champion is close to minions the minions will be stronger, so you can't freeze the lane anymore so the other guy can just stand under tower and still get levels and cs.

That'll definitely get rid of the poison that is better top laners crushing worse top laners and making the game unfun.

On August 23 2012 04:44 wei2coolman wrote:
Anyone read that Reddit post, about how they think korean teams are "overrated" because asians only learn things by "rote". Oh man, I can't tell if serious, or troll.

It's just sad how many upvotes it got.